very weird choking. going nuts :s

[Solartje]

i put a scarf over my left eye, put the cue under my right eye (feels weird in the beginning but its just a matter of time before it becomes natural) and tried: 20 corner to corner straight in shots.

result: potted 20/20.



Problem is 100% solved on straight in shots it seems

(ok illhave to test it on a much longer run, and many more shots then just 20straight in shots,but it looks to work !!)

on angle shots its a bit harder, as im only using 1 eye, i dont have a feeling of distance once down and my head on the chin, but as long as i see the angle when standing up, and my brain the tells me how much ball overlapping i need, i get down, and i use one eye to align the overlapment, and i just shoot and it works. im even more acurate then before..

more testing also showed:

1/ if focus is as far as possible (aka the pocket) my eyedominance is 50/50, wich is perfect for my regular chin above cue position.
2/So i align my shot with my eyes looking at the pocket.
then i close left eye, move my head so the cue is under my right eye, and i compare the overlapping vieuw to the 3d vieuw with the focus on the pocket.
3/ if these images look to be fine, i then change my chin back to above the cue, and i can shoot knowing that my aligment is ON. as long as my stroke is fluent, the balls will go in now...

i know it seems alot of work to do before a shot, to move your chin, close and open eyes, etc... but at least i can use my regular chin above cue position, and i dont need to start training one eye dominance, and move my eye above the cue, as this would take alot of time to adapt too. Im glad i can find a way to keep my original chin position...

the testing hasnttaken long enough to say, i think i found my problem but it sure looks like i found the main variable of the equation that was making me miss shots...

I dont think my prolem is very comon, but if it helps someone else, ill be happy. just do the same test. if u are constantly missing straight in shots, and all angles are off, and miss to different sides and not always the same side (to thick or to thin) then this "might" be the

Eye-dominance-shifting-syndrom.



how many poeple do you know have told you at a certain point: if i take to long, i miss... i prefere to shoot fast.... this might by why.... just check, if its not this, it was worth checking.

 

[Black-Balled]

you've got the shanks.

and the twists.

I smell a challenge match w/ DCP!

OT: Keep at it. If you are training for 9b, play the ghost at 6b or 9b (or 4b or 12b). You just have to realize that this game can be very easy, or very tough. To win, you have to play better. That simple.

Keep at it, if it is fun. If not, phuket!

 

[Black-Balled]

i put a scarf over my left eye, put the cue under my right eye (feels weird

Eye-dominance-shifting-syndrom.
...

What the...

 

[8ballEinstein]

i put a scarf over my left eye, put the cue under my right eye (feels weird in the beginning but its just a matter of time before it becomes natural) and tried: 20 corner to corner straight in shots.

result: potted 20/20.



Problem is 100% solved on straight in shots it seems

(ok illhave to test it on a much longer run, and many more shots then just 20straight in shots,but it looks to work !!)

on angle shots its a bit harder, as im only using 1 eye, i dont have a feeling of distance once down and my head on the chin, but as long as i see the angle when standing up, and my brain the tells me how much ball overlapping i need, i get down, and i use one eye to align the overlapment, and i just shoot and it works. im even more acurate then before..

more testing also showed:

1/ if focus is as far as possible (aka the pocket) my eyedominance is 50/50, wich is perfect for my regular chin above cue position.
2/So i align my shot with my eyes looking at the pocket.
then i close left eye, move my head so the cue is under my right eye, and i compare the overlapping vieuw to the 3d vieuw with the focus on the pocket.
3/ if these images look to be fine, i then change my chin back to above the cue, and i can shoot knowing that my aligment is ON. as long as my stroke is fluent, the balls will go in now...

i know it seems alot of work to do before a shot, to move your chin, close and open eyes, etc... but at least i can use my regular chin above cue position, and i dont need to start training one eye dominance, and move my eye above the cue, as this would take alot of time to adapt too. Im glad i can find a way to keep my original chin position...

the testing hasnttaken long enough to say, i think i found my problem but it sure looks like i found the main variable of the equation that was making me miss shots...

I dont think my prolem is very comon, but if it helps someone else, ill be happy. just do the same test. if u are constantly missing straight in shots, and all angles are off, and miss to different sides and not always the same side (to thick or to thin) then this "might" be the

Eye-dominance-shifting-syndrom.



how many poeple do you know have told you at a certain point: if i take to long, i miss... i prefere to shoot fast.... this might by why.... just check, if its not this, it was worth checking.

Glad to see that you are getting good results! Next thing to return will be your confidence. After that you'll be shooting lights out!

 

[Snapshot9]

It would be nice

if we could all operate at 'peak efficiency' all the time, but in real life, we don't. We go through cycles mentally, physically, and emotionally. That's a problem with playing in leagues on a regular basis, especially more than once a week, you have to play even if you don't feel like it.

My suggestion, don't force things. Practice when you want to, and play when you want to. What is important is the quality. By this, I mean, what good does it do you to shoot a shot 100 times without observing or learning from the shot?

How to shoot the same shot with ANY English. Where the cue ball will go with each type of english afterwards. Can you shoot the shot jacked up? Can you make it with a jump shot? Do you need to make it on the inside of the pocket, outside? Can you slide the shot if needed?
When left with shot, and making it was not the best option, what safeties can you play with it?

When Pros evaluate a layout, they cover these details in their head before shooting. It may look like a swan on top of the water, but underneath those feet are going pretty fast. And it all becomes 2nd nature to them where it is almost automatic after awhile.

 

[Solartje]

What the...

exactly my first reaction

there isnt any rule who says that eye dominance has to be constant.
At least it seems to explain my problem. (i think and i hope). ill pay extra special atention to my eyedominance next time im on a tournament table.

man i'm weird !!!!!

 

[JoeyA]

Keep your mind on the process of playing well & avoid all thoughts of winningorlosing

What JoeyA said!!! I feel this is exactly your problem and have gone through it myself, still do occassionally. Set your goals for each game, each shot and stop worrying about winning so much. It'll come.

Back at ya. To compete well, you must be concerned with the here and now, concentrating on execution.

If you are thinking about the outcome, you will NEVER reach your potential.

Spend your time, enjoying every nuance and every aspect of the shot. If you do this, the outcome will take care of itself.

KEEP YOUR MIND ON THE PROCESS OF PLAYING WELL AND AVOID ALL THOUGHTS OF WINNING OR LOSING!

JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

test:

i put myself a straight long distance corner to corner shot.

i can do things with my eyes without moving, that when i look normally the cb overlaps the ob 100% (straight in), but i can make it change to a 1/2th hit left, and a 1/2th hit right without any movement. it still is a straight in shot, but my eyes see a half ball left and a right cut shot.

so it looks logic that when i bend down, and i put my cue in the lign of aim, depending on what eye is dominant at that time and i adjust the 3/4 overlapping so that i get a 4/4 overlapping, but looking from above the line is not straight in!!

here is what i see:

first picture is how the straight shot in looks like when my eye dominance is equal.

the second picture, if my left eye focusses more, i see the 2ball like this (to the left) and if my right eye focuses more, i see it as the red ball.

The difference in between both equal, or one eye dominant = 1/2 half ball.
i also never miss to the same side. sometimes its 2 balls wide to the left, sometimes its 2 balls wide to the right. (could be explained as both left and right eye dominance can change.)

1/2ball hit = +-30? angle = 2balls wide on most shots...

now when i dont really focus, and i bend down and shoot within one second, i never miss. my eyes dont have the time to change dominance. (i play my best when i play at the speed of tony drago, and when im playing speedpool. (thats how ive played for 6 years before i starting playing pool as a sport).

now i know that THAT isn't going to make me a better player in the long run. A good preshotroutine, and taking the time to check all the points and lines is the path to take to become a consistent player, but then my eyes go all

i think this is the problem i have :s (+ probably all the other things mentioned here.)

i hope this info is clear :s and i hope i can find a solution for it.

now, what does change my eye dominance:
- fatigue
- lightning
- subconsious changes
- distance in between my eye and the point where i focus. (maybe its always the same? aka CB: left eye dominant, OB: both equal, pocket: right eye dominant.) i guess i need to test this. maybe there is one place where both eyes are equal and i need to align my shot by focusing on that point, and then never change it, no matter how wrong it looks when i switch my eye to tip, cb, ob, pocket. just trust it. THAT + doing some eye dominance training of some sort.

(i remember a very good player that always aligns up with one eye shut... this might be the reason why he does it. he closes one eye, so the open eye HAS to be the dominant, places his cue underneath THAT eye, and then just trust it...)

PS i remember some time ago watchin national geographic where they explained that its a rare "quality" to be able to change eyedominance, and that it was a required quality to have when you wanted to be a war helicopter pilot. one eye has the technical thing over it (radar, + to aim, etc), and the other eye just looks true the window. its this thing that made me think about a possible problem for me.

You have written a lot of good information and I think you are on to something. I know that for myself, I have problems with trying to second guess myself as far as aiming is concerned. When I am standing erect I see the shot correctly. When I get down on the shot, I sometimes want to correct my alignment. This "correction" is almost always wrong. What I try to do is align everything before I get down on the shot, especially my feet and when I lean forward to place my bridge hand on the table, all I have to do is execute the shot. I try to "LOCK ON" to the target and shoot the shot. If I spend too much time down on the shot, I will almost always start trying to readjust my aiming and it will almost always result in a poor shot. My alignment is almost always perfect if I pay attention to it standing up and simply execute the shot.

FTR, I have experimented with closing one eye as if you were shootin a rifle and the experience has been almost a nightmare.

One of the things I like to do is to shoot the same shot over and over, moving my body alignment minutely until the ball starts going in the hole every time. When the ball starts going in the hole every time I start paying attention to what the shot picture looks like and try to burn that into my memory banks. Like you I have similar problems and I believe that SOME people simply do not have this problem but you can overcome this. Will you become the next European Champion, I don't know; but you will certainly have great pleasure as you overcome this obstacle and others that stand in your way.

Keep us posted as to your progress as I am VERY interested in what you actually do to overcome this problem. You will be trying many things in the months to come but I have the feeling that it will be only a couple of things that actually correct the problem although you may temporarily fix the problem with many different "fixes".

I was wondering if going to an eye doctor would help. An eye specialist may be able to offer insight into whether or not the stress can cause aiming problems.

Do we have any opthamologists or optometrists on AZ?

For the record, I believe playing in tournaments is far more difficult than gambling.

Good luck and keep posting your findings.
Thanks!

JoeyA

 

[SPINDOKTOR]

your eyes are causing you to miss, I went through this, then I learned to trust. you put together a pre shot routine, and you stick to it, you focous on what matter the most, line up and delivery.

I had to do this, I knew I was lining up perfect, but for some reason I was missing, so I eliminated one thing at a time and found I could pocket more balls consistantly if I didnt look at the shot, just concentrated on a smoothe and straight followthrough.


I myself Im right handed left eye dominate. the way I percieve the shot, in the first pic your slightly off center, the tip in the pic to me is going to apply some left side spin.


SPINDOKTOR

 

[mikepage]

[...]
I can often tell when a player is off his mark when I notice their cuestick is not over their dominant eye.

I'm thinking I'm going to avoid this cue-stick-over-the-dominant-eye stuff until there's also a coffin lid over my cuestick......

 

[Solartje]

FTR, I have experimented with closing one eye as if you were shootin a rifle and the experience has been almost a nightmare.
JoeyA

when u did this, did you adjust your chin acording to the eye you closed?
and this method only works for straight in shots. For angled shots, you can't adapt once down or you will ofcourse miss (as the second eye who is responsible for depth isnt there). you can only compare the overlaping image you know you have to get (aka 30 degree angle = 1/2 overlapping) when u are standing up with the image you get when you are down. if its off, you have stand up again, adapting when down wont work.

anyway, i think many people have some sort of problem that could be eye related. maybe not what i have, but it sure could be a possible thing to invest. i think eyes are far underrated. not saying that a fluent stroke isnt important, but its at least as important.

what you see is what you get; doesnt aply in pool... being an architect i know much about depth's, optical ilusions etc,but an eye dokter will probably help us more. Im glad i posted my questions, and the way this post is going, im sure we are getting some extra information out for people who are having this problem.

FTR; it seems that the further my focus is, the correcter my aligment is. If i adapt in function of how the lines look when looking at the CB, i'll miss the shot for sure. but if i do corrections (small ofcourse, any big correction should be done by standing up again) when looking at a far distance point, it seems that the adaptations are correct. I really believe that very small adaptations (1 or 2 degrees angle) can be helpfull in being more precise. standing up gives you a good idea of the angle to pot the ball, but if u want to hit the left side or the right side of the pocket, this adaptation are to small to do when standing up, and i believe that these are better made when down on the shot, but ONLY if you adapt to the correct image you see, and usually this is where the problem comes. we see the wrong image when bended down.

 

[Solartje]

im not sure if this is a good explenation.

if u see on the picture.

red line is when you focus on the CB
blue line when you focus on the OB
green line when u focus to the pocket.

the further the focus, the closer (more parralel) the line gets to the line true cb-ob-pocket. the correcter you vision will be.
i guess this could be an explenation why when i use both eyes and focus on a point far away (aka pocket or further) my vision is correcter (aka the difference between the vision of my left eye dominant, and the right eye dominant is smaller)..

this might help to not have to , close an eye, move your head, open eye, and move the head back (any excess head movement can only be bad.)..

my testing seem to confirm this.

its hard to draw what i see... but this is what im getting and what i mean with focuspoint...

VS

 

[JoeyA]

when u did this, did you adjust your chin acording to the eye you closed?
and this method only works for straight in shots. For angled shots, you can't adapt once down or you will ofcourse miss (as the second eye who is responsible for depth isnt there). you can only compare the overlaping image you know you have to get (aka 30 degree angle = 1/2 overlapping) when u are standing up with the image you get when you are down. if its off, you have stand up again, adapting when down wont work.

anyway, i think many people have some sort of problem that could be eye related. maybe not what i have, but it sure could be a possible thing to invest. i think eyes are far underrated. not saying that a fluent stroke isnt important, but its at least as important.

what you see is what you get; doesnt aply in pool... being an architect i know much about depth's, optical ilusions etc,but an eye dokter will probably help us more. Im glad i posted my questions, and the way this post is going, im sure we are getting some extra information out for people who are having this problem.

FTR; it seems that the further my focus is, the correcter my aligment is. If i adapt in function of how the lines look when looking at the CB, i'll miss the shot for sure. but if i do corrections (small ofcourse, any big correction should be done by standing up again) when looking at a far distance point, it seems that the adaptations are correct. I really believe that very small adaptations (1 or 2 degrees angle) can be helpfull in being more precise. standing up gives you a good idea of the angle to pot the ball, but if u want to hit the left side or the right side of the pocket, this adaptation are to small to do when standing up, and i believe that these are better made when down on the shot, but ONLY if you adapt to the correct image you see, and usually this is where the problem comes. we see the wrong image when bended down.

I move my dominant right eye over the shaft and make sure not to tilt my head. I don't care where my chin winds up but it normally winds up to the side of the shaft. When I open the other eye, the image looks off centered but if I pull the trigger at that point in time, I pot the ball. If I hesitate and look/aim a little longer I want to move around until it looks better and then I miss. I've learned in practice that if I don't move and simply let me two open eyes relax and make no judgment as to what I amlooking at, things turn out better.

I haven't paid much attention to making the small adjustments as you have once i am down because I make the decision standing up to hit one side of the pocket or other but I'll be checking that out. Thanks!


JoeyA

 

[Solartje]

joeyA what im saying is no absolute trought, just some food for the mind.

i think thats one very difficult part of the game, but a very important. im still learning what not to pay atention to, and what to pay atention too.
"make no judgment as to what I amlooking at, things turn out better"


i still havent found a perfect way to help the eye-shift-dominance-syndrome. Focusing further helps recuding the problems, but they are still present... i'll sleep a night over it, do some more testing, and see what i can find for tomorow.

ps god DAMN, potting those long straight in shots does feel good!! ive missed that.

i put a ob 1mm (to not have to take count for cusion induced english) from the side and 2 diamonds from the corner top right pocket, and same for the cb at the corner down right pocket, closed one eye, and shot 20 shots like that. all went straightin, stopshots, draw, folow. man did that feel good!

another thing that seems to help to verify the image i see with both eyes is: compare how of the vision with left eye is compared to the right eye. if the ofset is the same, i know im shoting straight. this is harder to judge on angled shots, but it helps me to not have to close one eye when im down. i really dont like this...

tomorow another day of testing ! can't wait

 

[9 on the snap]

This thread makes me dizzy. I will be lucky if I can pot a ball tonight.

 

[JoeyA]

i put a scarf over my left eye, put the cue under my right eye (feels weird in the beginning but its just a matter of time before it becomes natural) and tried: 20 corner to corner straight in shots.

result: potted 20/20.



Problem is 100% solved on straight in shots it seems

(ok illhave to test it on a much longer run, and many more shots then just 20straight in shots,but it looks to work !!)

on angle shots its a bit harder, as im only using 1 eye, i dont have a feeling of distance once down and my head on the chin, but as long as i see the angle when standing up, and my brain the tells me how much ball overlapping i need, i get down, and i use one eye to align the overlapment, and i just shoot and it works. im even more acurate then before..

more testing also showed:

1/ if focus is as far as possible (aka the pocket) my eyedominance is 50/50, wich is perfect for my regular chin above cue position.
2/So i align my shot with my eyes looking at the pocket.
then i close left eye, move my head so the cue is under my right eye, and i compare the overlapping vieuw to the 3d vieuw with the focus on the pocket.
3/ if these images look to be fine, i then change my chin back to above the cue, and i can shoot knowing that my aligment is ON. as long as my stroke is fluent, the balls will go in now...

i know it seems alot of work to do before a shot, to move your chin, close and open eyes, etc... but at least i can use my regular chin above cue position, and i dont need to start training one eye dominance, and move my eye above the cue, as this would take alot of time to adapt too. Im glad i can find a way to keep my original chin position...

the testing hasnttaken long enough to say, i think i found my problem but it sure looks like i found the main variable of the equation that was making me miss shots...

I dont think my prolem is very comon, but if it helps someone else, ill be happy. just do the same test. if u are constantly missing straight in shots, and all angles are off, and miss to different sides and not always the same side (to thick or to thin) then this "might" be the

Eye-dominance-shifting-syndrom.



how many poeple do you know have told you at a certain point: if i take to long, i miss... i prefere to shoot fast.... this might by why.... just check, if its not this, it was worth checking.

We don't wear no stinkin's scarfs here in LOUISIANA. We'll do with a hardy patch over the eye, thank you very much. OK, I'll try it soon.
Thanks,
JoeyA

 

[gopi-1]

you've got the shanks.

Say what???