Video about Pro One visual sweeps

BobN said:
Stan, You are absolutely right. My intent with the video was to show how subtle the sweeps actually are, not to show where to put your feet. What I showed with the shot of my feet was, as you put it, where my feet want to go, and those positions put me in a comfortable stance and position... those dimensional moves will probably NOT be the same for anyone else. Actually, when you look at those feet and think "I'll try moving my feet one shoe width", keep in mind that those tennis shoes are a size 14EEEE (or 15EEEE's depending on which pair I was wearing) and when you look at how much or little I move to go into the sweep, keep in mind that I'm 6'4" tall, have a 36" inseam and wear a 38" shirt sleeve... How "I" move will, just because of physical differences, be completely different than how Stan or Gerry or anyone else moves into a shot. Couple that with the steel knee thing... all kinds of issues and some physical limitations, there... wanna see me jump up out of a shot? Watch what happens if I get that leg in an funny position and "torque" it a little... I dance around the room like a 3 year old that scraped his knee in a tricycle wreck!

In any case, as I said, I was more interested in showing how subtle the sweeps were, and only showed my feet to demonstrate how little I move... and considering my height and the length of my legs, that's not much of a move to effect my visual sweep... very subtle.

One more note... as far as how I move into the ball and don't really do the visual sweeps. Keep in mind that I've been working with Pro One for 2 years and it's completely automatic for me, now. I didn't start out trying to shortcut around the visual sweeps... I did things EXACTLY like Stan taught me and EXACTLY like he has it laid out on DVD #1. Time and experience have made my feet "know where to go"... As my good friend, RandyG says, "No magic wand... it's a magic WANT!". It takes table time and practice to learn to effectively execute ANYTHING. Do what Stan says on the videos, get personal lessons from him if you can (Or Stevie) and you will, over time, incorporate your own style into ProOne, just as I and many more have done.

Bob
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Excellent post, Bob.

Some KEY points:

Do not try and make your feet placement at ball address position (where your visuals are seen)your feet positioning for full stance.

Your feet should move or shift as you move into full stance. As your eyes sweep to the shot line your feet will follow. Just let it happen. Your body will quickly learn how to transition from ball address to full stance.

Stan Shuffett
 
I agree that it's an eyes lead - feet follows - but the PIVOT is so hard to explain to people. The imagine something like a dancer doing a spin when in fact it's just a tiny shift. No matter what you use that CTEL as your first orientation and that is where the feet start every time. For each shot and it's visuals the feet will end up in roughly the same position relative to the CB-OB with only slightly different positions due to the actual visual approach.

You see this is the part where Pat Johnson would say it's "feel". He would say that we are figuring it out by subconscious adjustment with the eyes lead body follows step of the process. But in fact the way I see it is that by starting with the CTEL you are already putting your body in the same relative position no matter what the shot is and the resulting foot placements are going to always end up within a very narrow range. This is very helpful information for people to know. Especially for the folks who are stuck on where the bridge lands and when/how/how much to "pivot".
 
JB Cases said:
I agree that it's an eyes lead - feet follows - but the PIVOT is so hard to explain to people. The imagine something like a dancer doing a spin when in fact it's just a tiny shift. No matter what you use that CTEL as your first orientation and that is where the feet start every time. For each shot and it's visuals the feet will end up in roughly the same position relative to the CB-OB with only slightly different positions due to the actual visual approach.

You see this is the part where Pat Johnson would say it's "feel". He would say that we are figuring it out by subconscious adjustment with the eyes lead body follows step of the process. But in fact the way I see it is that by starting with the CTEL you are already putting your body in the same relative position no matter what the shot is and the resulting foot placements are going to always end up within a very narrow range. This is very helpful information for people to know. Especially for the folks who are stuck on where the bridge lands and when/how/how much to "pivot".
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Yes your visuals establish your initial physical position but positioning can have variance. There is no requirement in CTE PRO ONE to present yourself for visuals in a specific physical way. What is required is that you establish a correct perception.

Concerning the CTEL. It must be emphasized that the CTEL is a perception only and the eyes are not directly behind the CTE line.

What matters is that perception places the eyes and body a 1/2 tip rotation or pivot away from the shot line. The body soon learns the left and right moves to CCB. Actually, the eyes sweep to the shot line and the body lags slightly behind.

Stan Shuffett
 
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stan shuffett said:
Yes your visuals establish your initial physical position but positioning can have variance. There is no requirement in CTE PRO ONE to present yourself for visuals in a specific physical way. What is required is that you establish a correct perception.

Concerning the CTEL. It must be emphasized that the CTEL is a perception only and the eyes are not directly behind the CTE line.

What matters is that perception places the eyes and body a 1/2 tip rotation or pivot away from the shot line. The body soon learns the left and right moves to CCB. Actually, the eyes sweep to the shot line and the body lags slightly behind.

Stan Shuffett
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I do understand. However I want to say that the constant here is the unknown ghost ball line. In order to shoot the ball straight along that line, also known as the (correct) shot line, the bridge hand and the arm connected to it along with the body connected to that has to be in a very narrow range of positions in order to properly and comfortably deliver stroke and cue along that line.

To me this is the power of the CTE line. It orients the body in that narrow space, the ONLY place where a player can stand without contortion, to have any chance to make the shot without resorting to "body english".

The CTEL is the objective constant. No matter where the cue ball is and no matter where the object ball is there is only one true Center to Edge line for each side of the object ball. You can go slightly inside it but any more than that and you can't see it without leaning or otherwise contorting to pick it up. To me this is where it all comes from being able to instantly use this constant and unmoving reference. Once a players establishes where they need to see the CTEL from to reliably use the other steps, i.e. not directly behind it, then the rest begins to fall into place.

This is another reason I recommend using a real ball to rerpresent the Ghost Ball. Practicing letting the eyes come into a known GB establishes the trust that it works and thus allows one to do it with no known lines.

Naturally this is all my own experience and I welcome your comments. I am after all still very very very much a student here.
 
JB Cases said:
I do understand. However I want to say that the constant here is the unknown ghost ball line. In order to shoot the ball straight along that line, also known as the (correct) shot line, the bridge hand and the arm connected to it along with the body connected to that has to be in a very narrow range of positions in order to properly and comfortably deliver stroke and cue along that line.

To me this is the power of the CTE line. It orients the body in that narrow space, the ONLY place where a player can stand without contortion, to have any chance to make the shot without resorting to "body english".

The CTEL is the objective constant. No matter where the cue ball is and no matter where the object ball is there is only one true Center to Edge line for each side of the object ball. You can go slightly inside it but any more than that and you can't see it without leaning or otherwise contorting to pick it up. To me this is where it all comes from being able to instantly use this constant and unmoving reference. Once a players establishes where they need to see the CTEL from to reliably use the other steps, i.e. not directly behind it, then the rest begins to fall into place.

This is another reason I recommend using a real ball to rerpresent the Ghost Ball. Practicing letting the eyes come into a known GB establishes the trust that it works and thus allows one to do it with no known lines.

Naturally this is all my own experience and I welcome your comments. I am after all still very very very much a student here.
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JB,

The information that I want to advance will be on DVD2. This is all about perception and a rotation to CCB. Yes, the CTE line is there but ONLY as a perception. The correct offset to the CTEL is established in conjunction with an OB Aimpoint. There are only 2 CTE perceptions and when they are followed with a slight rotation to CCB, aim lines to pockets result.

Additionally, the perceptions of CTE PRO ONE always fix the cue ball. The CTEL perception is a must as well as the OB aim point in establishing 2 fixed edges for a CB during ball address.
Our eyes and body are always properly oriented to any shot by a fixed CB.


Stan Shuffett
 
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BobN said:
I am not teaching visual sweeps or Pro One in this video. I'll leave that to Stan, Stevie and Stan's DVDs. The purpose of this is to show those new to Pro One how little movement is actually needed to execute the visual sweeps. I see a lot of new Pro One users throw up their hands because they can't figure out the visual sweeps. I try to explain them as simply as I can in the way that I use them. Keep in mind, I have severe arthritis in my back, have one artificial knee and really need to have the other one replaced, so I had to simplify the movements and adapt them somewhat to what my knee will, and will not do. Regardless, the movements will be similar, if not exactly like most other Pro One users execute.

Forgive the format and the editing (there wasn't much) as I did this on one take for each segment then just stitched them together. Any and all comments are welcome... Oh, and sorry Stan, for misspelling your name on the last page! I didn't notice it until the 3 hours that it took to upload this video was over. I'll replace it someday when I have time to edit it a little better and I'll fix that! :smile:

Anyways, here is the link to the youtube video... http://youtu.be/f-SrlXYYzuI

Bob
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Many thanks Bob for your video.
I took it to the pool hall today and worked on it for 5 hours. Very simple way to get your left or right visuals with a solid stance I couldn't belive how simple it was.
:smile: Peace
 
No problem gazman... I had fun doing it and I'm glad to see it's helping a few people.

Bob
 
nobcitypool said:
Stan, you say that but yet many people on here who are Pro One advocates found this video very enlightening. I think that says something that needs to be paid attention to. Getting the visuals with your eyes is not the most difficult part of the system. It seems obvious from reading people's comments, along with my own experience, that going from having the visuals to getting in the right set position that is the biggest challenge. My comments on this are offered with constructive intent, I hope that is understood. Making many vague, ambiguous comments at a high level of abstraction is not helping increase the learning curve for your system.
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I will hold pat with my comments. CTE PRO ONE is primarily a visual system. I do not think that I have made vague and ambiguous comments.

There is no set placement for footing during ball address.
Once visuals are seen, a player simply shifts into his most fundamentally correct position for full stance.

Stan Shuffett
 
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