VNEA Pattern racking 8-ball

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northshoremb

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Ok I've been looking in the VNEA rules right on their page and doesn't mention anything about Pattern racking so is it allowed? I see as long as the 2 wing balls are opposites and 8 is on its spot that's a legal rack.
Played BCA and VNEA for 24 years and was always a headball power hitter but now on the 7' Valley tables the 2nd ball softer break seems better on our tables so wanted to know if it's legal to do the Corey Duel Pattern break since I can't find anywhere saying you arnt allowed in VNEA.
Just want to cover my ass in League and Tournaments if it's not an actual rule.
If it is please show me a link to where you found tht info
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Reminds me of a game at our state tournament years ago. I put all the stripes on one side of the rack, solids on the other. Then proceeded to break and run out. My opponent then asked if that was a legal rack etc etc.

VNEA 8 ball rules state
The balls are racked in a triangle at the foot of the table with the 8-ball in the center of the triangle, the first ball of the rack on the footspot, a stripe ball in one corner of the rack and a solid ball in the other corner.

That's all you need when it comes to the racking portion of things.
 
Fore Rail said:
Reminds me of a game at our state tournament years ago. I put all the stripes on one side of the rack, solids on the other. Then proceeded to break and run out. My opponent then asked if that was a legal rack etc etc.

VNEA 8 ball rules state
The balls are racked in a triangle at the foot of the table with the 8-ball in the center of the triangle, the first ball of the rack on the footspot, a stripe ball in one corner of the rack and a solid ball in the other corner.

That's all you need when it comes to the racking portion of things.
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That's exactly what I read too and always heard people say Pattern racking "Corey Duel" racking is illegal. But then again maybe that's BCA or APA. I know also pattern racking "Duel break" is only accurate with a magic rack anyways

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Fore Rail said:
Reminds me of a game at our state tournament years ago. I put all the stripes on one side of the rack, solids on the other. Then proceeded to break and run out. My opponent then asked if that was a legal rack etc etc.

VNEA 8 ball rules state
The balls are racked in a triangle at the foot of the table with the 8-ball in the center of the triangle, the first ball of the rack on the footspot, a stripe ball in one corner of the rack and a solid ball in the other corner.

That's all you need when it comes to the racking portion of things.
Click to expand...

This pattern happens fairly often if the previous game was a runout.

That's because of the way the balls line up in a row after being made then keep that position mostly when going into the ball holder the racker uses.

The racker's right had grabs the first set of runout balls and the left hand grabs the last 7 balls made in a row.

If that makes sense.



Jeff Livingston
 
northshoremb said:
That's exactly what I read too and always heard people say Pattern racking "Corey Duel" racking is illegal. But then again maybe that's BCA or APA. I know also pattern racking "Duel break" is only accurate with a magic rack anyways

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CSI BCA Pool League 8 ball

The balls are racked as follows

a: In a triangle with the apex ball on the foot spot.

b: The rows behind the apex are parallel to the foot string.

c: The 8-ball is in the middle of the row of three balls.

d: The remaining balls are placed at random, except that the ball at each rear corner of the rack must be of a different group from the other rear corner(the left/right orientation those two balls does not matter).

A little bit more defined, but pretty much the same things as VNEA. Wouldn't be surprised at all to see individual tournament directors go a bit further with how the balls are racked. Even to the point of having a "neutral" rack in play for everyone to use.
 
chefjeff said:
This pattern happens fairly often if the previous game was a runout.

That's because of the way the balls line up in a row after being made then keep that position mostly when going into the ball holder the racker uses.

The racker's right had grabs the first set of runout balls and the left hand grabs the last 7 balls made in a row.

If that makes sense.



Jeff Livingston
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Can't readily remember the circumstances of that particular match one bit. I don't think there was a runout in front of my game, but of course a possibility. I was probably just racking that way at the time. Have totally moved on from that as of now.
 
I think the general rules of pool across all games, where applicable, are "random order". So 8 ball, 9 ball, etc have a few ball positions set and the rest as "random". I think any rule set that does not specifically mention random racking simply did not think that people would be racking in a specific pattern every time and it's not something that was omitted on purpose, just one of those things that whoever wrote the rule did not even think was a think that was done, like needing a warning on a blowtorch that states "end may be hot".

I think there was some pro event where they did not put in the one foot on the floor rule specifically in the rules and players were climbing on the tables. I'm sure it was not put in on purpose, just an "oops".
 
hang-the-9 said:
I think the general rules of pool across all games, where applicable, are "random order". So 8 ball, 9 ball, etc have a few ball positions set and the rest as "random". I think any rule set that does not specifically mention random racking simply did not think that people would be racking in a specific pattern every time and it's not something that was omitted on purpose, just one of those things that whoever wrote the rule did not even think was a think that was done, like needing a warning on a blowtorch that states "end may be hot".

I think there was some pro event where they did not put in the one foot on the floor rule specifically in the rules and players were climbing on the tables. I'm sure it was not put in on purpose, just an "oops".
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No random order implied in VNEA.

Pattern racking isn't new, and rule sets are updated.
 
jimmyco said:
No random order implied in VNEA.

Pattern racking isn't new, and rule sets are updated.
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Ok can you show my where they have it in writing on the update so I can bookmark for tournament purposes? I went right to VNEA and this is what it shows with no mention to ball order other than wing balls and 8
Screenshot_20211211-054437_Firefox.jpg


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hang-the-9 said:
... I think there was some pro event where they did not put in the one foot on the floor rule specifically in the rules and players were climbing on the tables. I'm sure it was not put in on purpose, just an "oops".
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That was the IPT. I think a couple of top pro players clumb up on the table before they put a stop to it. The problem happened because the IPT decided to write their rules from scratch and didn't check from an old rule set or simply use the WSR.
 
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northshoremb said:
Yes VNEA you rack your own cause I Think APA racking is BS. Guy can rack your balls loose if he knows you can run racks

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I think the on-breaking player should be able to veto a pattern rack but the breaker should probably be the one to remove the rack itself. I've heard of guys creating slight gaps to make certain balls go into pockets. I guess that's why I've seen rules state no touching balls after the rack is removed.

First sentence should say "NON-breaking" player. sorry for any confusion.
 
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tomatoshooter said:
I think the on-breaking player should be able to veto a pattern rack but the breaker should probably be the one to remove the rack itself. I've heard of guys creating slight gaps to make certain balls go into pockets. I guess that's why I've seen rules state no touching balls after the rack is removed.
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Where would these gaps need to be to make certain balls?? I've always tried my best to keep balls tight and never tested lose balls

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northshoremb said:
That's 9bal and the Derby Classic isnt VNEA sanctioned is it? Never been so no idea but pretty sure they don't use 7' Valley tables

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That was about manipulating the rack. An eight ball rack would be more difficult or less reliable to manipulate, I'm sure.
 
tomatoshooter said:
That was about manipulating the rack. An eight ball rack would be more difficult or less reliable to manipulate, I'm sure.
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I've fooled around with the Corey Duel pattern break with Magic rack and it works amazing 90% of the time. Only bad thing is can't use Magic rack for tournies so really hard to rack super tight for it to work

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