Wade Crane/Billy Johnson Story

accdealer said:
Anybody in the WORLD has action with that game, including Archer, Reyes, etc. NOBODY, I mean, NOBODY, is going to break and run out 25 out of 50 racks consistently. Anybody want action with that game, PM me and come on down.

The point is that no one took him up on that exact challenge when he made it. You might feel differently if you were betting against someone on their table.

As for beating ghost more than 50% of the time I would beg to differ. I saw Alex beat the ten ball ghost and then the eleven ball ghost in Nashville. Gabe Owen beat the 12 ball ghost. I think you might be surprised how many racks these guys can run when they find the right spot and get the break down.

If you want to bet $100 a game against the nine ball ghost then there are at least five guys in Tulsa that will bet you all day every day in Tulsa.

I know Alex Pagulayan would LOVE to ge that game. He busted it several times and that's why they moved him to the 10 and 11 ball ghost.

John
 
What is really shitty Tom is that the burden of proof lies with the citizen and not with the IRS. You are not innocent until proven guilty, rather you are assumed to be guilty until proven innocent. I fail to see how law enforcement can just confiscate a person's money, auto and possessions just because he has them. Stories like yours are commonplace, including the one about the 85 year old widow who cashed out her life insurance and was traveling with $185,000 in cash who was stopped, questioned, arrested and had her money confiscated because they did not believe her.

John
 
Clarification?

Did Crane take ball in hand after the break?

Did Pagulayan? I wouldn't take the bet if the player gets ball in hand, but I would most certainly take the bet if they don't (with one caveat--how does the table break? If the corner ball goes every time, and they can play shape on the one, I wouldn't take the bet).
 
Good story Tom! I remember when you came in my poolroom (Beechmont Billiards in Cincinnati) and beat Belcamino, one of the tightest pool players I've ever known, at Gin first and then you let him hustle you (LOL) at nine-ball as a chance to get his money back! lol I knew he was in the "hands of the Philistines", for the first time in quite a while! He was used to picking on only the lamest players who stumbled into the poolroom. He thought he had the best of it because you were playing "off the wall" with probably the crookedest cue you could have found. Of course I had the shafts to your Balabuska in my shop for some tip work. (old Champions IIRC) . I was Gary Spaeth's best friend and "stake horse", he brought you by my shop, just to refresh your memory.


Back on the original topic... I believe that Wade had a little different motivation for using the "Billy Johnson" moniker! Back in the day, it was told through the grapevine that Wade had to start using the alias due to the wrath of the father of a young lady he'd been seeing! I don't think it was a "shotgun wedding" he had in mind! lol


Sherm Adamson


OldHasBeen said:
It is hard to imagine now, the possible $$$ that was able to be made by a good hustler back in the late '60's, '70's & early '80's. I was, so I know. Once in Walls, MI at a big bar tourney the place was raided by the Mississippi Bureau of Narcotics. There was about 150 players & spectators crammed into this famous bar spot. Lots a BIG action going on. I noticed these 4 or 5 guys filtering through the crowd with baseball hats that had MBN on the front. It was obvious to me that they were carrying guns under their coats. Me and a couple of others (including the owner) saw what was going on - but we thought they were there to heist the place. I go to my car and stash my cash and was going to leave but thought I would offer my 38 revolver to the owner before I left. As soon as I go back in - they (about 12 cops) come busting into the back door and announce a raid. I have never fooled with any drugs my whole life and so I thought I had nothing to worry about. WRONG!
While searching and questioning everyone, they now find me with a loaded 38, new Lincoln Continental out front and over $28K hidden in two places in my car. Even though I had no drugs of any kind, they say there is a fellow there who will be speaking to me later down at the jail. I was busted for the gun. Well the fellow was with the IRS and I had to tell him I hadn't worked in over 8 years. They confiscated everything - Car, Cash, Clothes, Gun, My Cue (balabushka), watch & ring (?$18K) & even my private set of Pool Balls I used to carry. TOTALLY DEVISTATED - I did the only thing I ever did when I was in a jackpot - CALLED MY FATHER back in St Louis. He comes & bails me out and we find the best lawyer in Mississippi down in Jackson. My Father remembers that the previous year I had helped a new poolroom owner open his room (2 weeks) and he paid me a few bucks an hour so it was on the books and the taxes were taken out. THIS, AND THIS ALONE, SAVED MY ASS! The IRS had to give me back everything they had taken & they were pissed. The lawyer found an old Mississippi State Law (that was still on the books) that said: If you were more than 50 miles away from your residence and carrying over $50 on your person, you were permitted to carry a weapon. The CCW (carrying a concealed weapon) charges were dismissed and they even had to return my pistol. Back in St. Louis, one of the first things I had to do was talk to a taxman who worked for my brother. He said - I had better FILE for at least the next 5 to 7 years because they (IRS) would be watching me. He said it didn't matter HOW I filed (even as a Pro Pool Player) just so long as I filed. Now as you can see my name is Tom Ferry but it really is Thomas Martin Ferry and my license reads Ferry, Thomas Martin so for the following years I was Tom Martin, Whitey, and some other handles I won't reveal.
The whole point of this is - Everyone thinks the worst enemy of a Hustler is "The Nut" (and rightfully so) But the IRS can be much worse and therefore the need for AKA's and aliases are well served.
There was a full-page newspaper article written about me here in St. Louis back in '77. It is titled - "The Hustle Is On" and it goes into some pretty good detail about all of the tactics, deceptions and rewards of my pool life back then. The next day, they did a full-page article on St. Louie, Louie that was titled "He's No Hustler". The purpose of the two articles was to show the contrast of goals and talents of the two best pool players in St. Louis. The photo above is cut from this article (thanks to Hemicuda). This article has been hanging in our Family Room for years and all my kid’s friends love reading it when they come over. My Son & Daughter have been fooling around with eBay and decided to see if anyone would be interested in buying reproductions that are professionally mounted, framed and autographed. Well to my astonishment they sold 12 in (2 weeks) for $175 apiece. My attorney has told me to pull it off eBay so we could get some copy write protections before going forward with any more. I was just speaking with Buddy on Wednesday night and he has heard of it selling on eBay. He is going to add a signed statement on the bottom to attest to How I Did, What I Did, For As Long As I Did, while keeping my anonymity. When all is said & done I would rather see it available here on AZBillairds (for POOL people) than going to a bunch of squares that don't really understand "What It's All About".
 
onepocketchump said:
The point is that no one took him up on that exact challenge when he made it. You might feel differently if you were betting against someone on their table.

As for beating ghost more than 50% of the time I would beg to differ. I saw Alex beat the ten ball ghost and then the eleven ball ghost in Nashville. Gabe Owen beat the 12 ball ghost. I think you might be surprised how many racks these guys can run when they find the right spot and get the break down.

If you want to bet $100 a game against the nine ball ghost then there are at least five guys in Tulsa that will bet you all day every day in Tulsa.

I know Alex Pagulayan would LOVE to ge that game. He busted it several times and that's why they moved him to the 10 and 11 ball ghost.

John

John,

There is a huge difference between the proposition that WC offered and beating the ghost. Any 'A' level player is subject to beat the ghost more times than not. As a matter of fact, I witnessed Santos Sambajon get beaten by an 'A' player who was only getting spotted break ball in hand. Santos got beat 7-2 and when Santos quit him, the guy offered him the 7 ball and Santos still declined. The proposition that is described in this thread about WC, doesn't mention anything about playing the ghost or receiving break ball in hand. If the proposition was indeed playing the ghost(break ball in hand), then of course nobody took him up on his offer, especially in his room on his table. The approximate price that he would have to lay on that proposition would have to at least be 6-1.
 
Um, Pagulayan beat the 11 ball GHOST WITHOUT getting ball in hand after the break. I'll repeat, it was on Wade's table at HIS poolroom. If he knows that table inside and out then I'll bet he knew he could beat the 9 ball ghost on it WITHOUT ball in hand after the break. It MUST mean SOMETHING that NOBODY took him up on it.

Now, like I said, I think there are several players in Tulsa who would be more than willing to bet on the 9 ball ghost WITHOUT ball in hand all day every day for $100 a game.

Out of ten breaks I will get at least six opportunities where I should run out, layouts that a top player WILL run out. So if I can get those with my weak and inconsistent break what will a top player do with a great and consistent break AND the ability to get out nearly 100% when the balls are in good position?

John
 
onepocketchump said:
Um, Pagulayan beat the 11 ball GHOST WITHOUT getting ball in hand after the break. I'll repeat, it was on Wade's table at HIS poolroom. If he knows that table inside and out then I'll bet he knew he could beat the 9 ball ghost on it WITHOUT ball in hand after the break. It MUST mean SOMETHING that NOBODY took him up on it.

Now, like I said, I think there are several players in Tulsa who would be more than willing to bet on the 9 ball ghost WITHOUT ball in hand all day every day for $100 a game.

Out of ten breaks I will get at least six opportunities where I should run out, layouts that a top player WILL run out. So if I can get those with my weak and inconsistent break what will a top player do with a great and consistent break AND the ability to get out nearly 100% when the balls are in good position?

John

If i ever get to Tulsa i think id have to take that bet with anyone whose name i dont know. According to statistics, even the pros do not make a ball on the break 35% of the time. Now when they do make a ball they have to have a shot.,Let's say they dont have a shot one in six times. That leaves them 5 games out of ten where they get a chance to run out. If they shoot perfect from there they get a chance to break even!

Seems to me there is very little upside for the shooter. I doubt that id get beat but if i did, no one would be robbing me. If i wasn't a nit i'd be on my way to the airport now!
 
And there is the caveat - Nostroke, you would take the bet with anyone "whose name you did not know". This implies that there are players with whom you would not want to make this bet and if that is what you meant then it proves my point. That point being that a known player with a great break does not have to lose against the ghost on their table. At least the thought of losing must have been present in people's minds because no one took Wade up on his challenge. Otherwise we would be telling stories about the times he won or lost on that bet.

Tom, do you remember anythng about Wade's challenge. IIRC correctly I read about it in Buddy's book, which is debated by many as to whether it is accurate or not. Whether it is fully accurate or not is in question but it is certainly entertaining for sure!

John
 
Sherm - I remember - But too busy - Finals today !

Will get back w/ ans. for both - Billy/Wade & Billy/Buddy public invitations. Tourney finals starting NOW - Later. Tom
 
I played an open Tournament yesterday in Marietta Georgia. Marco Marcus won it by the way. Don't ask how I did. :) But near the end Wade Crane came strolling in and the whispering started "saying watch out for that guy" and so on. He may be in his fifties or so, but he still commanded the respect of almost everyone in the room when he walked in.
 
I don't remember exactly how they racked the 11 ball game. I seem to remember that if Alex scratched or fouled on the break that all balls made were spotted and he started from behind the headstring. Maybe someone else that was at JOB Billiards when he did it could elaborate.

John
 
The Billy Johnson, Buddy Hall Challenges

As memory serves me -
The fellow who owned Guy's & Doll's in Shreveport (Red Box I Think), put an ad in the Billiard News or some such publication back then that said:
ANYONE who comes to Shreveport and wants to play a $10K, 9 Ball match w/ Buddy Hall - IS VERY WELCOME!
To my knowledge - No one took it - (most people w/ that kind of $ had enough sense not to go "Huntin Bear With A Switch"), but I will be talking w/ Buddy in a few days and find out for sure.
In my opinion, Billy Johnson was "The Reason" that 10 Ball was invented or at least popularized. Ring 9 ball games were played a lot back then but Billy could & would break them up because of his masterful break. So players like Segal, Louie, Keith, Jimmy (Reid & Rempy), Buddy & so on came up with 10 ball. It didn't really work though because Billy just mastered the 10 ball break and kept on winning.
One of my fondest tournament memories came at Billy's expense in Baltimore, Maryland. It was at a World 9 ball Championship and Billy & I had a match. Now I was not exactly a "Tournament Player" and for good reason. I can handle playing for $200 a game with a $400 bankroll, but I hate to get involved in a game where I can't control my own opponents and CAN lose without "Running Out Of Bullets".
Anyway, Billy & I play very well and it comes down to "Hill, Hill going to 11. The irony of this story is that I made the 9 "On The Break"!
 
I've allways heard of the Legendary Wade Crane but just until recentley I got to watch him on a video tape I aquired.The tape was the 1966 World Straight Pool championship final Crane vs Balsis. Balsis got to the pack first and ran 11 balls before missing. Crane stepped up to the table and ran 150 and out.He ran into trouble 5 or 6 times but each time skillfully got out by either making a tough(sometimes unbelievable) combination, a razor cut or a tough rail shot.This is a classic video and I was really, really impressed with that man's skill.

At one time I said to myself, "RJ now you can see just how shitty you really are." I can probably beat 99% plus of the worlds population, but I'm seemingly light years way from the likes of Wade Crane.RJ
 
recoveryjones said:
I've allways heard of the Legendary Wade Crane but just until recentley I got to watch him on a video tape I aquired.The tape was the 1966 World Straight Pool championship final Crane vs Balsis. Balsis got to the pack first and ran 11 balls before missing. Crane stepped up to the table and ran 150 and out.He ran into trouble 5 or 6 times but each time skillfully got out by either making a tough(sometimes unbelievable) combination, a razor cut or a tough rail shot.This is a classic video and I was really, really impressed with that man's skill.

At one time I said to myself, "RJ now you can see just how shitty you really are." I can probably beat 99% plus of the worlds population, but I'm seemingly light years way from the likes of Wade Crane.RJ

I hate to tell you RJ but that was Irving Crane-Wade hit his best stride in the early 80's
 
Schmohawk said:
I hate to tell you RJ but that was Irving Crane-Wade hit his best stride in the early 80's

OOOPPPS!,thanks for the correction as I did make a mistake on the name LOL. and got the Crane's confused in my Craneium. At least I got the last name right.I guess I just assumed that there was only one great player who went by the name of Crane.If Wade Crane could play anything like Irving Crane (or was it Irving Johnson?? LOL) then he too must have been a great player.RJ

ps.Were the two Crane's related?
 
recoveryjones said:
If Wade Crane could play anything like Irving Crane (or was it Irving Johnson?? LOL) then he too must have been a great player.RJ

QUOTE]

RJ,
Mosconi, Greenleaf, Mizerak, Sigel = short list of players in history that could "play anything like Irving Crane." JMO

P.S. - You realize that Irving was well past his prime when you saw him. He played very strong even into his 70's (maybe SJM or Cardiac Kid can regale you with some of their stories).
 
Williebetmore said:
recoveryjones said:
If Wade Crane could play anything like Irving Crane (or was it Irving Johnson?? LOL) then he too must have been a great player.RJ

QUOTE]

RJ,
Mosconi, Greenleaf, Mizerak, Sigel = short list of players in history that could "play anything like Irving Crane." JMO

P.S. - You realize that Irving was well past his prime when you saw him. He played very strong even into his 70's (maybe SJM or Cardiac Kid can regale you with some of their stories).

Thanks Willie. I have 14 straight pool matches on video and have seen the amazing things Mizerak and Sigel can do.My 1966 video with Crane vs Balsis is the only time I've ever got to watch the great Irving Crane play.

Even though you say he was well past his prime in that video, the man could still really shoot well as shown by his 150 and out run.Yes he went offline 5 or 6 times but brilliantly kept the run going with great recovery shots.

I'd really like to find some video coverage of Greenleaf in his prime. These select few are truley amazing, RJ
 
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