wanted- pool history lesson

blah blah

blah blah

Shoebat
Currently we have three types of table games in which balls are pushed with sticks. I'm separating them by the type of table they're played on: snooker, pocket pool (for want of a better word), and carom billiards... Arguably, there's a fourth in bumper pool, but wasn't that just a quick fad?

Did all three table games stem from one single, original table? Did it have pockets? I think I've heard of a table owned by one of the french louis kings that only had one pocket- in the middle of the table.

Where/ when was the split in the development of these games? When did they stop using clay balls? anyone here remember them? also, what kind of tip was used before the leather ones we have now?

When, where, and how did pool decline from a game of royalty and nobles to one played by cutthroats and tricksters?

I think there are gaps in the history pages. please help.
 
There has been plenty of good work done on this subject by people like Mike Shamos and Robert Byrne. The exact origin of all forms of Billiards seem to be an indoor version of lawn bowling or boule. As such the orignal game would probably have had no pockets or holes, simple a surrounding wall to stop the balls rolling out of the playing area. Putting it up on a table was supposed to have done to avoid people straining to bend over, and this in turn made the use of wooden sticks to move the balls around preferable to using your hands. In time the walls turned into padded cushions to allow for rebounding the balls back into the playfield.

It was a elite sport simply because all forms of recreational sport that needed specialist equipment were the province of the rich, and up until the Industrial Revolution only a very small portion of the popultion could afford either the equipment or the leisure time to pursue such sports. With the advent both of more even wealth distribution, leisure time and mass production of the relevant equipment Pool, like most other sports, was opened up to the masses during the late 18th and early 19th century.
 
I've read about the original games being on grass, and moving indoors (hence green felt), but even then I imagined something like golf- assuming without realizing it that there were holes/pockets. And it sounds like you're thinking of bocce ball and croquet being the relatives?

Am still unclear about the relationship btwn snooker, carom billiards, and "pocket pool." Are they regional developments? (UK and Eire being big snooker places, and france, spain, mexico, vietnam all seeming to prefer carom billiards.)

The point about the industrialization is a very good one...

...Any suggestions on books? As far as Byrne etc., I have only seen super- brief introductions to "how to play" books that run through the history like bullet trains.
 
IMO, one of the best resources for the history of the cueing sports is "The Billiard Encyclopedia" by Victor Stein and Paul Rubino. It is out of print now, but you may be able to locate a copy on ebay. It's a huge book, very well researched and replete with excellent graphics and text.

SF
 
blah blah said:
Am still unclear about the relationship btwn snooker, carom billiards, and "pocket pool." Are they regional developments?
Click to expand...

Yes. "Pocket pool" is usually referred to as "Pocket Billiards". One thing that is both fascinating about all forms of billiards/cue sports is that although the basic parameters stay constant (A table with rails, balls and cue sticks) there are almost endless variations on equipment configurations (with and without pockets, how many balls, what size tables, additional options like skittles, holes in the playfield etc.) not to mention multiple sets of game rules that can be played with that equipment. (8 Ball, 9 Ball, Straight Pool, One Pocket etc.)

Whilst this variation has led to widespread acceptance of Billiards across large segements of the World it is also one of the reasons there is no major international sport based around Billiards. If you look at most other major international sports or games they are all played with very similar equipment and rules across the globe. Without that major international component and governing body Billiards of all kinds have endured as a fragmented localized sport, loved by those who play it but barely recognized by the general population.
 
blah blah said:
Currently we have three types of table games in which balls are pushed with sticks. I'm separating them by the type of table they're played on: snooker, pocket pool (for want of a better word), and carom billiards...
Click to expand...

Snooker is a derivative of English Billiards, which is still an international sport. Like carom in the US it was once the dominant sport, but has since been displaced by it's sibling. Snooker is played on an English Billiards table, although it will invariably be called a snooker table nowadays. All the table markings come from billiards. For instance the baulk line has no purpose in snooker.

Boro Nut
 
I've just been learning about this myself!

The earliest picture I have of a billiard table is from the book "Observations on Popular Antiquities, chiefly illustrating the origin of our vulgar customs, ceremonies and superstitions" by John Brand - 1877.

And this picture says it is from the book "School of Recreation" 1610. Here is a link to the same picture from a 1710 edition of "School of Recreation"...
http://www.cuesnviews.co.uk/normanclare/picbilliards1710.htm

The above link shows a picture of a billiard table with no pockets (but there appears to be 3 tiny hoops at the far end on the rail), two croquet like hoops for the balls to pass through, two balls on the table, and two players using "maces" which are sticks with a flat end and a round end.

Then next picture I have is from the book "The Compleat Gamester" by Charles Cotton - 1674. This picture is titled "Louis XIV at Billiards". This picture shows a table (no pockets) with at least one croquet like hoop and what appears to be a wood (or ivory) peg sticking up out of the table at the other end, 8 people standing around, maces, and two balls. The picture on the cover of this book, however, shows a table, which appears to have 6 pockets.

Here is a link to information about the game "Ground Billiards"...
http://www.tradgames.org.uk/games/Billiard-Family.htm

Then there was croquet aka "Pall Mall" (Paille-Maille in French). Here is a link to old Pall Mall rules...
http://www2.kumc.edu/itc/staff/rknight/Game1.htm

So notice we have "croquet like"outdoor games with hoops and a stake, and also an indoor game with hoops and a stake. Needless to say, the weather would not always be nice, so I suppose a similar indoor game was devised.

Here are the rules for 1688 billiards from the book "Academy of Armory" by Randle Holme 1688

Notice that both indoor billiards and croquet are played with hoops (wickets), balls, and a stake.
Continued next post...
 
Next is the rules for billiards (Hoyle's 1770's). Here is a link to the rules from a 1820's Hoyle's which are pretty much the same...
http://www.eaba.co.uk/articles/hoyle/pocketHoyle.html

The game at this point was played on a table with 6 pockets, no hoops, and 3 balls. There were two "cue balls" - one for each player, and a red ball.

Remember in croquet, each player had their own ball, with which they played. Also I have read croquet rules which mention the balls for each player having a different color and number - interesting! ["Croquet: The Laws and Regulations of the Game, Thoroughly Revised" by John Jaques - 1864]

In this game of billiards, you could score points by pocketing *any* ball, by a carom shot which hit two balls, or both for added points. The game was played up to a set number of points or to a set period of time. Games could last for several days or even a week!

After a ball was pocketed, it would be spotted. With this game, you could manipulate your cue ball into a position where it was directly in front of where the cue ball would be spotted, hit the red ball with draw (called "screw" in U.K.), the red ball would be spotted in the same spot, then draw shot again. You could keep hitting in the red ball and drawing back for hours - racking up points.

Later rules only allowed a few shots like this, then you would need to make a different shot.
Spotting the pocketed balls back on the table and keeping score was quite a chore. So they had a person called a "marker" whose job it was to do this. Not that only wealthy people owned billiards tables, so I suppose it was no problem paying for someone to do this.

I have played this game myself and I have noticed several things. It is fun to just make carom shots only. It is fun to pocket balls only. And it is a *lot* of work to keep spotting the balls which were pocketed!

So I can see where someone would come up with the idea of having no pockets and just playing carom billiards (still played with 3 balls).

And I can see where someone would come up with the idea of playing pocket billiards and just pocketing balls. I think an early version of this was called pyramid billiards.

Then I suppose snooker came out of all of this?

Note that the old 3 ball billiard game is still played in England (Called English Billiards"). Here is a link to the modern rules...
http://www.globalsnookercentre.co.uk/files/EBSA/EBSRA/EBSRArulesBillsEng.htm

Continued next post...
 
Here are some other historical billiards links and following that is my own modified rules for old english billiards...

Billiards Historical Timeline...
http://www.cuesnviews.co.uk/Snooker/timeline.htm

The History of Billiards...
http://www.cuecare.com/history.htm

Billiard books before 1950...
http://3cushion.com/On Line Collection/Bibliography.htm

Billiards and Snooker Archive...
http://www.billiardsandsnookerarchive.co.uk/

A Brief History of Billiards and the Tools of the Trade
http://www.globalsnookercentre.co.uk/files/History/history_article01a.htm

Pictures of old billiard books...
http://users.skynet.be/billard.billiards/nbook1.htm

Portions of old books online...
http://www.eaba.co.uk/books/book-index.html

Rules for various billiard games...
http://infohost.nmt.edu/~billiard
Continued next post...
 
My Simplified English Billiard Rules

Balls: Play with 3 balls; yellow ball, red ball, and cue ball.

Baulk-line and Baulk

A straight line drawn along the "head string" (end where break from - 2nd diamond) and is called the Baulk-line, and that line and the intervening space is termed the Baulk.

The "D": The "D" is a semi-circle described in Baulk with its center at the middle of the Baulk-line and with a radius of 11½in.

Spots: Three spots are marked on the center long line of the table:

-The foot spot (where 1 ball is placed for 9-ball rack).
-Center of table
-The middle of the of head string (middle of baulk-line).

Game

A game is the period of play from the opening stroke, until it is completed, by reaching the end of a specified period of time or either player reaching the number of points specified.

Cue Balls

The white ball is the cue ball of one player.
The yellow ball is the cue ball of the other player

The balls other than your cue ball are object balls.

Play

The choice of cue ball and which side is to play first shall be decided by lagging or a coin flip.

The red is placed on the spot other players cue ball on the center spot. The first player plays from in-hand (inside "D").

The players play alternately, or in turn, unless a score is made, in which case the striker continues the playing

Cue ball in-hand: The cue-ball must be struck from within the lines of the "D", and the cue-ball must be played out of Baulk.

The cue-ball must contact a cushion or ball out of Baulk before re-entering and coming to rest in Baulk, or before hitting a ball in Baulk.

The cue-ball may be played against a cushion in Baulk before hitting a ball out of Baulk.

Spotting Object Balls: Balls shall be placed on the spot closest to the ball return unless that spot is occupied in which case the next spot should be used.

Scoring: Points are made by pocketing any ball or by caroms - singly or in combination.

A carom or pocketed cue ball - 2 points.

Pocketed red - 3 points

Carom and pocketed white - 4 points.

Carom and pocketed red - 5 points.
 
First, Billy Bob, you are a treasure! Thank you! I’ve got a lot of reading to do and will post things I find or more questions…
First impression/reactions:

Billy_Bob said:
“Here are the rules for 1688 billiards from the book "Academy of Armory" by Randle Holme 1688”
Click to expand...

There wasn’t a link. I did a google search and found excerpts and a site where if I was a publisher or professor I could request a text, but I couldn’t find those rules.

Billy_Bob said:
“After a ball was pocketed, it would be spotted. With this game, you could manipulate your cue ball into a position where it was directly in front of where the cue ball would be spotted, hit the red ball with draw (called "screw" in U.K.), the red ball would be spotted in the same spot, then draw shot again. You could keep hitting in the red ball and drawing back for hours - racking up points.”
Click to expand...

—sounds a lot like snooker, and I can see how the game could last for weeks- if you were playing to 1000’s of points, or if the equipment was fairly unreliable, too…
—Mark Twain spent at least a chapter in his autobiography talking about the amount of fun that could be had on a dilapidated, terrible bowling alley, AND he went on to argue that players in an old west bar on a terrible table with lots of obstructions and faults with the equipment were actually more skilled and more highly accomplished that were pro players in a NY event with perfect environment and equipment.

Billy_Bob said:
“and keeping score was quite a chore. So they had a person called a "marker" whose job it was to do this”
Click to expand...

This reminds me- my teacher (first started playing in Georgia in the mid ‘40s) tells me that in his time, you’d pay a rack boy per rack- part of that fee would go to the house and part to the “boy.” There was no table time.

Billy_Bob said:
“Then I suppose snooker came out of all of this?”
Click to expand...
Somehow someone got crazy with the number of balls and their colors!

Billy_Bob said:
“Note that the old 3 ball billiard game is still played in England (Called English Billiards").”
Click to expand...
Interestingly, I believe the Mexicans and the Vietnamese both consider carom billiards a French game. Easy to see why they believe this…

Billy_Bob said:
“A straight line drawn along the "head string" (end where break from - 2nd diamond) and is called the Baulk-line, and that line and the intervening space is termed the Baulk.”
Click to expand...
Might be a further clue to the history from Merriam Online: Baulk, balk, “a ridge of land left unplowed as a dividing line or through carelessness.”

The lists of links will definitely keep me quiet for a long time. Thank you!!!
 
I know I said I'd be quiet, but I can't help it.

Before this thread, I had only read the wimpy, short-sighted type histories like that in your first link- http://www.cuesnviews.co.uk/Snooker/timeline.htm in which they make reference to older lawn games or mention famous kings, but mainly start with the 1800's.

So I was blown away by your references of the 1600's (and was thinking of the political and cultural history along the same time as the development of the game)...

and now I've gone on to your next link-
http://www.cuecare.com/history.htm
and cannot fathom the hisory. Can't do it. But I'm going to enjoy trying. :)

Really makes you appreciate the game and the smallness (but significance) of now.
 
These are *very* old and *very* rare books. Sometimes none are for sale anywhere, nor are they even mentioned on the internet.

I have been lucky to acquire a few oldies. Sometime's there is a reprint available. Sometimes there is stuff on the internet from these books.

Anyway when I get these old books, I read them, then find references to other old books. And some old billiards books have the history of billiards in them.

If is fun to learn how the game started and how various games have evolved into what they are today.

The place to find old books for sale is here...
http://used.addall.com
 
blah blah said:
This reminds me- my teacher (first started playing in Georgia in the mid ‘40s) tells me that in his time, you’d pay a rack boy per rack- part of that fee would go to the house and part to the “boy.” There was no table time.
Click to expand...

This continued in some parts of the country well past the 40's. I was a Rack Boy at 13 years old in Rogers Arkansas at the Rack -n- Cue. Pool tables in the front, domino tables in the middle, poker tables in the back. Got a lot of ass chewings until I learned how to rack right! Good experience, though...

Back on the history thing. A lot of very interesting information here, but it was asked what the tips were before they were leather. Well, they were wood, and generally, they didn't use the skinny end of the cue like we do now, they used the butt end. A quote from http://www.lindenheuvel.org/history.htm The cue was developed in the 17th century. When a ball was (too) close to the edge, it became too difficult to use the front of the stick (as a spoon). Then they turned the stick around and used the backside (the cue, which means tail). This was only allowed for male players, because they where afraid, that female players would damage the table.

As for the leather tip, it was developed by Francois Mingaud while he was in prison for expressing his views on subjects that weren't in agreement with the French gov't. There was a billiards table in the prison, and while there, he put a leather tip on a cue. After he was released from his little stay with the French Government, he toured the country doing exibitions, and from what I can gather, died a pauper (hmmmm... typical of a poolplayer, huh).

There is a funny story about the first time he drew the cue ball in public at http://www.snookergames.co.uk/history3.html Drawing the cue ball, or doing anything other than just rolling it into another ball with natural roll was unheard of. Before Mingaud's leather tip (originally rubber, so it's said, and later developed into leather), nobody could play any spin on the cue ball.

So, Francois Minguad introduced the leather tipped cue in 1807, while he was in prison, according to most sources. Mingaud, one time a Captain in Napolean's army, was born in 1771, died in 1847.

Just thought if you wanted some history on the game, a little history on the cue was in order.

Later,
Bob
 
Cane said:
This continued in some parts of the country well past the 40's. I was a Rack Boy at 13 years old in Rogers Arkansas at the Rack -n- Cue. Pool tables in the front, domino tables in the middle, poker tables in the back. Got a lot of ass chewings until I learned how to rack right! Good experience, though...
Click to expand...

any stories to share? I'm sure you saw a lot of action. And were you paid by the room or by the players?
also, I've heard of people having a rack boy 'in their pocket'. The rack boy might be sidebetting, might know one player would tip better than the other...

Cane said:
As for the leather tip, it was developed by Francois Mingaud while he was in prison for expressing his views on subjects that weren't in agreement with the French gov't. There was a billiards table in the prison, and while there, he put a leather tip on a cue. After he was released from his little stay with the French Government, he toured the country doing exibitions, and from what I can gather, died a pauper (hmmmm... typical of a poolplayer, huh).
Click to expand...

Yes- I remember reading about this. Also, that when he was released, Monsieur Mingaud actually asked for more prison time in order to perfect his game. (Haven't checked on the truth of that one)

...the pressed, layered leather tip is fairly new, though, right? I remember talk about how great the layered tip was- as if it was a new invention and they were trying to make converts.

Cane said:
Just thought if you wanted some history on the game, a little history on the cue was in order.
Click to expand...

I'm all in: tell me anything you can think of, give me stories, links, anything. I'm even interested in the differences between modern snooker cues and pool cues. When did they start doing inlays? How come "old" cues you see on ebay are heavily carved and come in 3 or 5 pieces? About what year are those? When did they settle down to two pieces?
 
Rack boy and cue trivia...

blah blah said:
any stories to share? I'm sure you saw a lot of action. And were you paid by the room or by the players?
also, I've heard of people having a rack boy 'in their pocket'. The rack boy might be sidebetting, might know one player would tip better than the other...

I did have one older gentleman that played 14.1. Any time he had a match, he'd call my Dad and ask if I could come to the pool room. I didn't rack special for him, but he'd grilled me so many times, that he knew I'd rack fair and right for both players.

As for the money, it was a nickel a rack when I first started there. I got 2c, the room got 3. The players paid me and I paid the room owner. If you were doing a really good job, a player might tip you a quarter when he finished playing. Best tip I ever got was on a 14.1 game where a gentleman won I don't know how much money, and he gave me a double sawbuck for a tip. That was a lot of money when racks were a nickel each. The Rack-n-Cue went to a dime before I moved from Rogers... man, 4c a rack, the rack boys were in high cotton. Rack three times and you had enough for a 10 ounce bottle of coke and a Snickers. Of course, I usually left there broke, as I'd just play on the tables after work until all of my profit was gone to the other rack boys. I think most of us did that. I guess the way it ended up, we pretty much racked for free!

<snip>Mingaud actually asked for more prison time in order to perfect his game. (Haven't checked on the truth of that one)

From what I've read of Mignaud, he did indeed ask for his time in prison to be extended because he loved the billiard table so much, which was rumored to actually be IN his cell. Personally, I think I would have opted for freedom, but then again, maybe he was married and compared to that, the Bastille looked pretty goo... never mind! :)

...the pressed, layered leather tip is fairly new, though, right? I remember talk about how great the layered tip was- as if it was a new invention and they were trying to make converts.

Don't know when the layered tips came into being. I quit playing for 14 years and just started back 3 years and 3 months ago. I'd never heard of them before I quit. Sure glad they came about. I love 'em.

I'm all in: tell me anything you can think of, give me stories, links, anything. I'm even interested in the differences between modern snooker cues and pool cues. When did they start doing inlays? How come "old" cues you see on ebay are heavily carved and come in 3 or 5 pieces? About what year are those? When did they settle down to two pieces?
Click to expand...

Most of this is better answered by AZ's fine cuemakers. All I know about the 3 and 5 piece cues is that most of them were cheap imports. I do know this. An older player, now passed on to the great Pool Room in the sky, told me that the players of the early part of the century, up through the 30's all carried one piece cues, many as short at 46" long, some even shorter. The did this because there WERE no 2 piece cues. He told me that cues only became longer after makers started making 2 piece cues. The reason they usually carried short cues is that most of the travel was on trains and in cabs, and the shorter cues were easier fit in the cabs and train cars.

Later,
Bob
 
I believe the game went from royalty to back rooms during the depression era when so many people were out of work.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top