Was I wrong at league the other night?

[renard]

Hey Cat, this is when you have to be the cool cat.

Get up from the table, and take time to think this one out. I mean make an excuse to shape a tip, tap a tip, take a piss, anything to by time to ask yourself some serious questions.

Once something or anything gets under your skin it is going to be hard to perform at your 'A' game.

Whatever that reason was that got under your skin your not going to, "Just forget about it." Your mind will not let you forget. If I say, "pink elephant" how can you forget that even. The point is your mind perceives a problem and only you can defuse the problem in your head. You do this by asking yourself serious questions with serious answers.

For example: Did these guys mean to shark me? No probably not, but they wouldnt be broken hearted either if it effected me. They know ettiqutte and I know in other circumstances they practice it.

Why not now? I think this guy sees that I have a good chance to get out from here so hes trying a little semi-shark on me now. Its easy to deny so he's saying to himself what the hell.

He's scared its over, so he believes in my ability. Not only that but he has shown me he has a little snake in him. I'm gonna show him he indeed needs to be scared.

OK, my tips done... time to kick ass.

You have to calm yourself down as early as you can (don't let it build.) Also don't start shooting until you believe you have resolved the issue in your head. Take that obstical (negitive) and turn it into motivation (positive.) Keep in mind you will be more emotionaly keyed up during all of this. While you are reasoning away with your questions take some deep breaths and let them out slowly.

Most people will just dwell on the problem until it eats up thier game. Take the situation head on in your mind and turn it around to help you.

All of this is easier said than done. It will take plenty of mental practice. Look at it this way. Everytime we play pool we learn something. You have learned something in this incident to make you a better player. Take that negative and turn it into a positive.

 

[MrLucky]

Hey it just goes with the territory...

I have played league APA in all kinds of spots from serious REDNECK Georgia Bars where I felt like I may have to fight my way out after the match to the in house league in a high quality tournament level hall ! but in them all are Aholes, Lod Mouths and generally uncouth folks mixed in with pure Ladies and Gents the only thing that changes is the quantity or percentage of each in the mix!

Since I am not in a High Bucks ESPN match I put up with the distractions and other things going on around me ! The way I see it is it actually helps my focus! and if it gets too out of hand I nicely ask the offender to "please move" or "could you please hold it down a second till I finish my shot!" The please 9 out of ten times helps!

 

[DelaWho???]

I for the most part have adapted to this place. When the all girls team literally screams about a game won, I just wait it out then continue. When we play a team of young semi-drunk kids, I wait them out. The problem is I expect better of a team of people I would call "pool players" not matter what environment they're in. I don't get mad at the inconsiderate help, or the punks, or the loud jukebox, it's people who should know better that get on my nerves. I kind of looked forward to playing this team and expected better.

I think your mistake is "waiting them out" Unless someone is in your stroke line (you'll hit them on backswing) or is crowding you, get down on the shot and shoot. The only ettequtte you should expect in the bar is that your opponent stay out of your line of site and not crowd you or the table. Everything else must be filtered out and played through. If not every league match would last until closing time.
If you can get in the zone through the distractions of the room you'll shoot well anywhere.
The bowling alley analogy hits the mark pretty good.

McCue Banger McCue

 

[9ball_in_MN]

it sounds like if the guy had been around pool and league for that matter he was watching you get mad so then just pressed the buttons untill you snaped... I know when I play anyone one I watch to see what gets at them or what his or her weak side is everyone has weak and strong pionts to there game... Just zone out on the music or something in your head and play your own game when you think about it the only person that can beat you is you

 

[Cornerman]

but was I wrong to expect better just because the guy has been around and was I wrong to be po'd.?

Cats. <== Had his fur up!

Were you wrong to expect better? No.

Forget this philosophical zen crap. The guy should have known better. It bugged you. You got pissed off. Nobody should tell you that you shouldn't get pissed off if someone pisses you off. Steve, all this advice for you to zone things out, not let things bother you, concentrate on the game not the surrounding, does it help? Or are you sitting back like me reading it scratching your head at the "holier than though," or "let me show you the way" posts?

Maybe by saying something, he'll be more cognizant next time. How you handle it what's important. Obviously, I know you Steve. I don't think this post is just a simple case of, "a little thing bugged me, and I went off." That's not you.

Fred

 

[Klopek]

Were you wrong to expect better? No.

Forget this philosophical zen crap. The guy should have known better. It bugged you. You got pissed off. Nobody should tell you that you shouldn't get pissed off if someone pisses you off. Steve, all this advice for you to zone things out, not let things bother you, concentrate on the game not the surrounding, does it help? Or are you sitting back like me reading it scratching your head at the "holier than though," or "let me show you the way" posts?

Maybe by saying something, he'll be more cognizant next time. How you handle it what's important. Obviously, I know you Steve. I don't think this post is just a simple case of, "a little thing bugged me, and I went off." That's not you.

Fred

It's definitely not zen, but it's true that some people can never attain the kind of burning focus it requires to block these things out. Should the whole world stop like the Matrix effect while you're making your shot, or should you learn to just shoot and suck it up?.

The only thing you can control is your own emotions, the rest of the people in the poolhall will do whatever they want. If you try to tell them to sit down or shut up, they've already won. They'll up and talk louder, they'll wiggle in their chair during your final stroke. They know they got to you and it's their advantage now.

I don't like giving advantage to my opponents, so I say nothing and remain absolutely expressionless during my time at the table. I throw on the Johnny Archer poker face and just plan my attack.

It's important to have control of your emotions in life as well as on the table. Some people have a hard time managing their anger, these people have a weakness that can be exploited.

 

[hanshewcustom-q]

yes you were wrong

This league I play in has a lot of people in it that just don't know much about pool etiquette, for that matter neither does the management or the wait staff wondering around. Every week I put up with it and try to wait for people to stop chattering right next to me or get out of my line of sight, etc. This week we were playing a team of fairly accomplished players who've been around the game a while and should know better and I was expecting better. Well I didn't get better and I put up with it all night and I was having a tough night anyway. During my last game, I'm over a critical shot and the most experienced and best player on their team is down the other end of the table, maybe 8 or 9 feet from me, chattering away loudly about my opponent's last shot. I just lost it, I stopped and waited and made a snide remark when they finally stopped; but by then I was so pi$$ed that it was over. I got the first 2 of a 4 ball run that should have got me out, but missed the third one, a difficult bank because I got lousy position because I was po'd. I had another couple of lousy shots, but it was too late to make a tough shot by then. After the game I let into the guy and he hollered back at me about everybody does it here or something like that. I wanted to reply with something like "if everybody jumped off a bridge ..." or "you've been around you should know better...", but I didn't really get a chance because my nearby teammate jumped in accusing him of sharking (which I don't think he was doing), then they were off and I was out of the "discussion".

At any rate, part of the problem was my level of play that night against a player I should have at least played even, but was I wrong to expect better just because the guy has been around and was I wrong to be po'd.?

Cats. <== Had his fur up!

this is just my opinion.......everyone else has responded to just about every aspect of this concerning pool and the different levels of pool and pool ettiquette........ in my opinion you were wrong to jump on him over it because you had never addressed the issue before. if someone is doing somthing you dont like, let them know about it in a civil manner.......once they are informed if they continue to do it you can assume they are doing it on purpose. i think it is a good lesson to learn that affects all aspects in life........whether it be a co-worker, a friend, your wife, or your kids it isnt right to let somthing annoy you to the point of lashing out at someone and they might have no clue that what they were doing was wrong or that it might be bothering you. not saying that is the case with this guy, but either way in my opinion you should have said somthing long ago before it got to this point.

 

[cornerhooked]

Just let it go .. Indiana.


You will always be out of your element if you allow the environment to dictate your play. If you let anyone get to you it CAN have the affect on your focus. Table conditions may have been the biggest factor here. You must be mindful of the speed and how the table is playing and adjust to that quickly as possible to stay in control. If you werent in control of the table ... then its very easy to allow outside elements to affect your game. Unless they are going out of their way to shark you, thats different. Remember .... we are all amateurs. The only way to avoid that I guess is to pay the $500 entry for the US Open to have the optimum shooting conditions.

 

[chefjeff]

Were you wrong to expect better? No.

Forget this philosophical zen crap. The guy should have known better. It bugged you. You got pissed off. Nobody should tell you that you shouldn't get pissed off if someone pisses you off. Steve, all this advice for you to zone things out, not let things bother you, concentrate on the game not the surrounding, does it help? Or are you sitting back like me reading it scratching your head at the "holier than though," or "let me show you the way" posts?

Maybe by saying something, he'll be more cognizant next time. How you handle it what's important. Obviously, I know you Steve. I don't think this post is just a simple case of, "a little thing bugged me, and I went off." That's not you.

Fred

Fred, with all due respect (and I have lots for you and your knowledge of this game), no one can piss off another, WITHOUT THAT OTHER'S PERMISSION. That's just a fact of life. I bet not everyone shooting was pissed at those behaviors. So, that means that each shooter there CHOSE HIS OWN RESPONSE. Edit: Think of how recently, the Amish responded to that children murderer...it was a choice they each made.

Steven Convey talks about responsibilty, as in the ability to respond as you wish. It is one's choice. Yeah, it's sometimes very tough, but it is still a choice. That's a fact of reality. Don't know about zen.

I've been accused of being a robot with this attitude, but I'd say the robots are those who ALLOW others to move them around, mentally speaking. A robot is controlled by the outside; humans don't have to chose to act that way.

Jeff Livingston

 

[TheConArtist]

if i am really into my game and concentrating on what i am doing, you could set off a m80 on the next table and it would not bother my shot. if you are going to play in bars there is going to be noise, so get into your game, keep your head down concentrate on your shot and all those distractions will go away. chuck

Ditto. There could be girls striping in the room and i can still concentrate on just the game but the bars here in leagues the rooms in some are very small so there ain't or little room around the table, people bumping into you while shooting, and the music so loud you can barely hear yourself talk. Good music though if i may say so i just learned to block out the mechanism.

 

[renard]

I believe that in these posts people forget that most pool players will if the situation permits (and they deem it important enough at that moment) pull a semi-sharking manuever. This is a manuever that can easily be argued as a regular occurance in the flow of a game.

Players do study others and what buttons to push. If you find that someone has found your "button" it is in your best interest to change that weakness to a strength.

I'll give you Larry as an example. Larry fails in his runout attempt and now fears his opponent will close the door. Often as he leaves the table after his miss he will position himself between the table and his opponent and will say something to his opponent designed as food for thought. Then Larry walks over to a group of people and offers his excuse for the missed shot to anyone who will listen. He gestures wildly towards the table and verbalizes loud enough that his opponent will take notice.

This is his standard operating procedure but this circumstance he realizes requires more. His opponent is now on the key ball for the runout. As Larry gestures towards the table as his opponent addresses the ball on the table. Larry moves toward the table and says, "Are those balls frozen? Which ball are you calling? The two or the three?"

It's obvious to everyone in the room the two doesn't go and it's evident now that his opponent is pissed at this shark. Larry is now over the top of the two and three and exclaims, "Oh, I see it now, the two doesn't go; go ahead. Sorry!"

Everyone has seen the "Larry's" of the game at one time or other. And believe me at one time or other it has worked on you! Everyone wants to boast just how shark proof thier own game is but lets face it knowone has experienced or seen it all. Only players at the highest levels have developed the mental makeup to make most sharks a nonfactor.

Just my $.02.

 

[Klopek]

I believe that in these posts people forget that most pool players will if the situation permits (and they deem it important enough at that moment) pull a semi-sharking manuever. This is a manuever that can easily be argued as a regular occurance in the flow of a game.

No one forgot the sharking possibility, it's just that the motives behind why this person was being disruptive aren't in question. Whatever the reason, the OP was wondering if he was out of line for tearing a strip off the guy. You may have played that same match and not even noticed the guy. Yes people shark, but sometimes people are just having a good time and get a little carried away.

 

[renard]

No one forgot the sharking possibility, it's just that the motives behind why this person was being disruptive aren't in question. Whatever the reason, the OP was wondering if he was out of line for tearing a strip off the guy. You may have played that same match and not even noticed the guy. Yes people shark, but sometimes people are just having a good time and get a little carried away.

Huh? I'll explain myself....Sure Cats was asking if he himself was out of line but thats a simple yes-no answer. IMO no, Cats wasn't wrong and should have asked for common courtesy.

The debate would be why was the guy being disruptive. Not that Cats needs to have thicker skin as so many posts have rained on him like he was crying or something.

So was this guy: A) Sharking B) Having fun? What I am pointing out is if there is a pattern it is sharking. Cats and none of the "thicker skin" posters are immune to it either. The written word leaves the imagination of the reader to paint the picture. If you witnessed it first hand you then could be given latitude in your comments here.

I am simply defending Cats that his call was right. If his call was right I would assume moreso that it had to be sharking rather than not. It could be sharking disguised as fun. Either way even Fred said it would take a lot for Cats to get hyped up on. So this wasn't just a guy having fun IMO.

 

[Klopek]

Huh? I'll explain myself....Sure Cats was asking if he himself was out of line but thats a simple yes-no answer. IMO no, Cats wasn't wrong and should have asked for common courtesy.

The debate would be why was the guy being disruptive. Not that Cats needs to have thicker skin as so many posts have rained on him like he was crying or something.

So was this guy: A) Sharking B) Having fun? What I am pointing out is if there is a pattern it is sharking. Cats and none of the "thicker skin" posters are immune to it either. The written word leaves the imagination of the reader to paint the picture. If you witnessed it first hand you then could be given latitude in your comments here.

I am simply defending Cats that his call was right. If his call was right I would assume moreso that it had to be sharking rather than not. It could be sharking disguised as fun. Either way even Fred said it would take a lot for Cats to get hyped up on. So this wasn't just a guy having fun IMO.

The "sharker" will do whatever he wants, does anyone really believe that yelling at him will turn him into a polite guy?. If anything the next time they meet up the guy will really stick it to him because Cats proved he can't handle it. Think what you want, but the majority of people feel sharking only works if you let it get to you. That's my $0.02

 

[ScottW]

Heh, one way to deal with an opposing team's sharker is to have one of YOUR teammates go up and strike up a conversation with the guy while you're at the table. Distract him from sharking YOU.

 

[renard]

The "sharker" will do whatever he wants, does anyone really believe that yelling at him will turn him into a polite guy?. If anything the next time they meet up the guy will really stick it to him because Cats proved he can't handle it. Think what you want, but the majority of people feel sharking only works if you let it get to you. That's my $0.02

My point is sharking works on everyone and this guy did shark. Cats not trying to make him into a polite guy. He is letting into him and telling everyone in hearing distance that his actions are not proper etiquette. In Cats case he confronted him after the game and Cats teammate had a different perspective on this than Cat (which is another reason why I believe he was sharking.)

I agree sharking only works if you let it get to you but that doesnt change the fact that it is cheating. I will let into a cheater everytime and make sure the whole room knows it. Come next time I announce to everyone, "Hey you gonna shark me again"

Now it's fresh in everyones mind. Everyone will see how low he will go. Most likely he won't because league is different than a tournament or gambling.

 

[Klopek]

My point is sharking works on everyone and this guy did shark. Cats not trying to make him into a polite guy. He is letting into him and telling everyone in hearing distance that his actions are not proper etiquette. In Cats case he confronted him after the game and Cats teammate had a different perspective on this than Cat (which is another reason why I believe he was sharking.)

I agree sharking only works if you let it get to you but that doesnt change the fact that it is cheating. I will let into a cheater everytime and make sure the whole room knows it. Come next time I announce to everyone, "Hey you gonna shark me again"

Now it's fresh in everyones mind. Everyone will see how low he will go. Most likely he won't because league is different than a tournament or gambling.

Sorry, I'll just never agree with you on this one.

 

[catscradle]

... and in conclusion.

Thank you all for your responses to my original post. Fred, as the only respondee who knows me, I'm pleased that you recognized this was an atypical behavior for me.
It seems 2 questions were answered one I actually asked and one I guess was implied by my post unintentionally. The question I actually asked was whether or not I was morally wrong to go off on this guy; the second apparently implied question was whether or not I was wrong pool-wise to let myself lose my composure. After reading the responses and a bit of introspection these are my conclusions:
> I was wrong in terms of pool to lose my composure and thereby lose the game. This I knew beforehand and was not actually asking that question, but it did spark some interesting back and forth.
> I was wrong to even indirectly "go off" on my opponent, he wasn't the cuprit. He deserves an apology, and will receive one despite my prideful nature which resists apologizing.
> I was NOT wrong to be po'd at the guy "sharking" either inadvertently or purposely, but I was wrong to "go off" on him. I should have let it go even though that does leave a feeling of incompleteness or even cowardliness. However, he does not deserve nor will he receive an apology.
> The guy who was so loud should apologize to me, but even if he recognizes it as bad etiquette I suspect he is not "big" enough to apologize.
> I have earplugs in my case which currently only come out when the jukebox level is literally painful to my ears...maybe they should come out more often. On a related note, I couldn't play with a hat on.
> This will probably continue to happen periodically with me. As a stereotypical son of an alcoholic I tend to hold things in and let them simmer in a vain hope of keeping the peace. Sooner or later it comes to a boil and results in an outburst. It truly is amazing, though not surprising, how our childhood continues to effect our lives until the day we die.

Thanks again for the replies.
Cats. <== Fur is down, guilt is up after a few days.

 

[Cornerman]

Thank you all for your responses to my original post. Fred, as the only respondee who knows me, I'm pleased that you recognized this was an atypical behavior for me.
It seems 2 questions were answered one I actually asked and one I guess was implied by my post unintentionally. The question I actually asked was whether or not I was morally wrong to go off on this guy; the second apparently implied question was whether or not I was wrong pool-wise to let myself lose my composure.

Standard problems with the internet forums. I figured you wanted an answer to your asked question. And most of the members answered your non-asked question.

The two questions/answers aren't necessarily linked.

Fred