Was KT's plan NEVER to use his OWN money?

[TheOne]

I'm curious, was KT's plan never to use his own money, or very little at least?

I've been suspicous of this since I saw the IPT promo video and all the open events where switched so he could hold qualifiers first. If you remember that video it started by saying something like "stand aside poker, there's a new king in town". This to me was the biggest clue that they hoped to fund the tour via qualifiers. In addition the ONLY suggestion that the IPT ignored (and incidently Deno didn't reply to) was for there to be less qualifiers with more spots.

We know that Deno told people he expected 64 players in each qualifier and KT has increased entries and also talked about 5k entries next year.

Yes the reality was that the entries DID NOT cover all the outgoings and people are now waiting on money - does this confirm that KT's commitment to personally secure the first 3 years prize money with his own cash was a lie? If this really was the case then none of the multitude of excuses the IPT have used to delay payment would hold much water?

I understand that people needed to believe in the credibility of the IPT in order to gamble huge qualifier entries and this thing would never have worked without a so called "Billionnaire" backing it, people jsut wouldnt have bought into it. I admire him for taking the risk and maybe it could have worked if they ahd got the numbers right, but was claiming to guarantee the first 3 years a stratch too far when he clearly has done no such thing?

 

[smashmouth]

That was in fact his intent. Free equipment, comped tourney rooms,
volunteer employees, qualifier revenue, sponsor revenue, etc.....

 

[TheOne]

That was in fact his intent. Free equipment, comped tourney rooms,
volunteer employees, qualifier revenue, sponsor revenue, etc.....

If they had indeed got 64 players per qualifier and some of your sarcastic list above then would he really have spent much of his own cash?

The point is, he clearly stated the first 3 years prize money was secure, he had put that money "aside". Where is it, u really think he'd take this hit, kill the qualifier revenue stream and potentially lose sponsors if the cash was sat under his sofa?

 

[macguy]

I'm curious, was KT's plan never to use his own money, or very little at least?

I've been suspicous of this since I saw the IPT promo video and all the open events where switched so he could hold qualifiers first. If you remember that video it started by saying something like "stand aside poker, there's a new king in town". This to me was the biggest clue that they hoped to fund the tour via qualifiers. In addition the ONLY suggestion that the IPT ignored (and incidently Deno didn't reply to) was for there to be less qualifiers with more spots.

We know that Deno told people he expected 64 players in each qualifier and KT has increased entries and also talked about 5k entries next year.

Yes the reality was that the entries DID NOT cover all the outgoings and people are now waiting on money - does this confirm that KT's commitment to personally secure the first 3 years prize money with his own cash was a lie? If this really was the case then none of the multitude of excuses the IPT have used to delay payment would hold much water?

I understand that people needed to believe in the credibility of the IPT in order to gamble huge qualifier entries and this thing would never have worked without a so called "Billionnaire" backing it, people jsut wouldnt have bought into it. I admire him for taking the risk and maybe it could have worked if they ahd got the numbers right, but was claiming to guarantee the first 3 years a stratch too far when he clearly has done no such thing?

He defenatly was using "Flash money". Even the interviews done by the billiard magazines in fancy homes, probably rented was for flash and the fancy cars and jewelry, what does all that have to do with a pool tour, other then to dazzle the naive reader and create followers. Nothing of substance was ever discussed at the players meetings beyond him saying they are working on so many things you would not believe it. How about pointing to just one thing that is bases on some reality, instead of keeping the people who have put their lives in your hands totally in the dark? Why, because there wasn't anything.

 

[NYC cue dude]

craig, a well thought out post.

as i recall, we were together in nj when kt spoke about raising the qualifiers to 5k. i was surprised to hear him say that the motivation for the increase was as punishment to the johnny come latelys.

he tried selling me so much sh!t there, that i am sorry i didnt have a tape recorder.

he also told me he had just sold half of the ipt for 50 million, and that he wanted to OWN POOL.

RG

 

[Tarantula]

craig, a well thought out post.

as i recall, we were together in nj when kt spoke about raising the qualifiers to 5k. i was surprised to hear him say that the motivation for the increase was as punishment to the johnny come latelys.

he tried selling me so much sh!t there, that i am sorry i didnt have a tape recorder.

he also told me he had just sold half of the ipt for 50 million, and that he wanted to OWN POOL.

RG

The DUDE has not changed! Look at his history. That alone should have alerted everyone. This is no surprise to me!

 

[jjinfla]

Yes I think he was hoping he could generate income through qualifiers. Also through commersials sold on TV. Also through the membership club. Also through selling products through the club. Probably also charging to watch the live streaming video.

I now believe that was his plan.

But he did have to come up with some serious money for the LJJ & MS match (did they really receive the amount stated), and the KOTH, and the Vegas Tournament and the Reno Tournament. All that came out of his own pocket.

I think that about the time of the Reno Tournament he realized that he could not make enough money to cover expenses, let alone to show a profit, so he just decided to cut and run.

Realistically, can anyone blame him? Wouldn't anyone of you do the same thing under the circumstances?

Jake

 

[jimmyg]

craig, a well thought out post.

as i recall, we were together in nj when kt spoke about raising the qualifiers to 5k. i was surprised to hear him say that the motivation for the increase was as punishment to the johnny come latelys.

he tried selling me so much sh!t there, that i am sorry i didnt have a tape recorder.

he also told me he had just sold half of the ipt for 50 million, and that he wanted to OWN POOL.

RG

How quickly and willingly some people are to ignore rational truth.

KT has and still makes his living convincing tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, of people that his products can grow hair, cure cancer, or rid them of their addictions. The man is a master at finding desperate people and telling them exactly what they need to hear in order to get their money. He is the "wizard" behind the "cyber curtain" (thanks Jay), a modern day "Rainmaker".

So, for the ones that are emotially and financially involved, there is no shame in believing in the dreams that he sells so well. Those of us that were not as "personally involved" were always able to be more objective than those that were.

 

[TheOne]

craig, a well thought out post.

as i recall, we were together in nj when kt spoke about raising the qualifiers to 5k. i was surprised to hear him say that the motivation for the increase was as punishment to the johnny come latelys.

he tried selling me so much sh!t there, that i am sorry i didnt have a tape recorder.

he also told me he had just sold half of the ipt for 50 million, and that he wanted to OWN POOL.

RG

Thanks Randy, yes you are correct and I only realised a few days ago it was you chatting to KT when I introduced myself. I decided sometime ago to just speak my mind about the IPT, both good and bad knowing that it could possibly go against me if they decided to be petty about it. I think I'm fair and many people have told me I am but I know some of the people who are very pro IPT dont see it that way.

However when I saw KT chatting to you I thought it best to introduce myself and not hide! He seemed to know who I was when I mentioned my forum name which was intresting but he was pleasent enough and wished me well in the tournament. I only really apologised for interrupting and said hello but I do recall you talking to him for a while over near the water coolers.

I only realised it recently also but could it be that the original $899 times 150 players was to cover most of the costs for the Sigel LJJ match? Don't forget all the players where required to pay their own way there too.

Jake etc, yes of course he's put some money in, but if his aim was to put in as little as possible with a limit MUCH MUCH LESS than the money he had "set aside" for the 1st three years then he wasn't exactly being honest was he.

It's clear as day to me what he's tried to do here, and to be honest I think it was quite ballsy and I will be disspointed if nobody else picks up the good work they have done and runs with it.

 

[centered5050]

I only realised it recently also but could it be that the original $899 times 150 players was to cover most of the costs for the Sigel LJJ match?

Noone paid $899. It was lowered to $1.

 

[SlimShafty]

Of course he was going to use his own money and he did, if the the IPT stops right now, KT will have lost at least 4 million of his own money and most likely more.

He thought at this point more interest would be created and the sport would get on the main stream news and give his products and pool major visibility, more people would be buying DVD's and other IPT products and the events would sell out.

In any business plan there comes a time to make a call, you either continue to toss away your money trying to make it work better, or you fold up your tent and run. And yes even outside of pool many people involved in new risky startups end up not being paid for work or services they provided. If the IPT does not get sold and does go into bankruptcy, players may get 10 cents on the dollar, and thats a big may, as they might just get nothing, but clearly KT will have lost the most.

The IPT was never a scam, but if the IPT does fail, KT might end up being the one who got scammed, by Sigel talking him into this. Mike walks away with 250K and his buddy Kevin loses millions. I still think it's a good idea, but I would get nervous too at this point and be thinking about an early exit or other investors.

 

[TheOne]

Noone paid $899. It was lowered to $1.

lol i know that!!! but only after an uproar and few entries - it showed the "plan"

 

[Nick B]

I wish people would stop saying that Mike Sigel and LLJ got the kind of money that was reported. Not a chance kids....more flash. What pro walking the planet would not do a one time challange match for 50K?

For that kind of money Willie Mosconi's wife would dig him up and make his skeleton play. These touring pros participate in tourneys were they have a chance to make 2K. For 250K and a cigar I can get Bill Clinton to speak at my birthday.

Nick

Of course he was going to use his own money and he did, if the the IPT stops right now, KT will have lost at least 4 million of his own money and most likely more.

He thought at this point more interest would be created and the sport would get on the main stream news and give his products and pool major visibility, more people would be buying DVD's and other IPT products and the events would sell out.

In any business plan there comes a time to make a call, you either continue to toss away your money trying to make it work better, or you fold up your tent and run. And yes even outside of pool many people involved in new risky startups end up not being paid for work or services they provided. If the IPT does not get sold and does go into bankruptcy, players may get 10 cents on the dollar, and thats a big may, as they might just get nothing, but clearly KT will have lost the most.

The IPT was never a scam, but if the IPT does fail, KT might end up being the one who got scammed, by Sigel talking him into this. Mike walks away with 250K and his buddy Kevin loses millions. I still think it's a good idea, but I would get nervous too at this point and be thinking about an early exit or other investors.