Watching top flight players negotiate games for the cheese

Flakeandrun

Flakeandrun

Well-known member
Been a while since I posted an 'experience' here.

The other night I had a chance to play with one of the better foreign guys who had been playing in the Duya in Qingdao. He's from the same neck of the world as me, and he was chilling in Shanghai waiting to move onto somewhere else. Humbling to watch someone who can play so well, so casually. We started on the Chinese table, and after a while moved to one of the Rasson tables. We played for a while, talking shit and having a good time. Can't say I did myself any justice, but enjoyed it. Was nice to play a bit on the Chinese table to be honest, as I seldom play on it. Felt like a proud little kid being asked for thoughts and advice on breaking if I'm honest. Shame the rest of my game was nothing to write home about hahaha

Anyway, a lot of the top TW players stop in at my local hall regularly, most of them had also been at Qingdao, and were looking a lot more comfortable in their natural habitat on the Rasson cash tables. They are all obviously high pedigree American table players (world champions among them). I tried to sort out a few cash games between my guy and some local players, and got pushed in the direction of the TW players. A lot of negotiations, but nothing materialized. My guy wanted to hit the Chinese table (8 or 9 ball), and they all wanted to play on the American table.

What stood out to me the most, was watching my favourite TW player of all time turning down a game on the American table, even after a generous spot offered... (granted my guy had made him look like he couldn't hold a cue in Qingdao). Watching the body language and negotiations was incredibly entertaining. Must be hard to nurse your own ego, while maintaining a strong appearance, as you clearly duck out of the way of a game.

Curious if anyone else has been a situation, where they have seem someone they regard highly having to tuck their tail between their legs.
 
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InsertCleverNameHere said:
Happens ALL THE TIME. Money can be funny. Might not feel great that day. Might not quite have enough time for a real session. Lot of reasons to say NO to games aside from skill. A lot less reasons to say YES unless you're certain of the outcome and even then maybe you want to save this sheep for when his fur has grown in fully.
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Insightful comment. Agree with you, it’s complex. Was just odd for me to see a player I really respect totally shook. Could see through the body language/attitude.
 
are they brothers perhaps? because they seem to move like a company more than a family.. can one even match up without permission from the company?
 
i dont get it. there is no ego involved you are making a game for money. if you dont like what is offered you turn it down.

i dont know what a TW player is but i supposed its a good one. but it doesnt matter who you bet with make the game right for you or dont play.

funny how in different countries people put their pride or what others think about them over what is the correct thing to do.
 
Most "pros" do not bet their own.
That is a dynamic that fascinates me.
It must be great to just play for jelly if you win with no risk if you lose.

Imagine being good enough to have backers that will put you in, even when you may not have the best of it. I have had plenty of times with people betting with me, and not getting anything when I win.
 
maha said:
i dont get it. there is no ego involved you are making a game for money. if you dont like what is offered you turn it down.

i dont know what a TW player is but i supposed its a good one. but it doesnt matter who you bet with make the game right for you or dont play.

funny how in different countries people put their pride or what others think about them over what is the correct thing to do.
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Taiwanese
 
many pros bet their own. but for big money which few have they look for backers. and some people being naive back people and give up any edge in the bet they may have back to the shooter.

if you have the best of it why would you even let a backer get in on the action and take away money that you should have won.

that only should happen if you are broke and if broke means you cant win on your own money so why should someone put up theirs on you.
 
SBC said:
Most "pros" do not bet their own.
That is a dynamic that fascinates me.
It must be great to just play for jelly if you win with no risk if you lose.

Imagine being good enough to have backers that will put you in, even when you may not have the best of it. I have had plenty of times with people betting with me, and not getting anything when I win.
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It's not always the most fun when you're playing with other people's money on the line. Really just depends on your personality and your relationship with your backers.
 
maha said:
i dont get it. there is no ego involved you are making a game for money. if you dont like what is offered you turn it down.

i dont know what a TW player is but i supposed its a good one. but it doesnt matter who you bet with make the game right for you or dont play.

funny how in different countries people put their pride or what others think about them over what is the correct thing to do.
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You can think of me as a dumpster fire ala you're counting out the Benjamin's.😉
 
maha said:
i dont get it. there is no ego involved you are making a game for money. if you dont like what is offered you turn it down.

i dont know what a TW player is but i supposed its a good one. but it doesnt matter who you bet with make the game right for you or dont play.

funny how in different countries people put their pride or what others think about them over what is the correct thing to do.
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Taiwan perhaps.
 
maha said:
i dont get it. there is no ego involved you are making a game for money. if you dont like what is offered you turn it down.

i dont know what a TW player is but i supposed its a good one. but it doesnt matter who you bet with make the game right for you or dont play.

funny how in different countries people put their pride or what others think about them over what is the correct thing to do.
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Taiwanese. And I agree with you, the difference in attitudes to playing and making games is different all around the world as a result of our respective cultures. I do feel that the attitude, and the 'hustle' involved in match-ups is different in East Asia, compared to other parts of the world. A lot more ego and personal pride involved. From my what I can see living here, It's not all about the cheese and how to eat it. This is in contrast to some other parts of the world, where getting the cheese by any means necessary is the objective.
 
kingwang said:
Can you share some names? I'm guessing the TW player wasn't one of the current elites, yeah?
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There is a crew of them that generally roll in a pack. They regularly rock up and chill at my local hall (I guess the city is a good transit point between home and mainland for them), they lounge around, eat bing long and play the odd game. It's pretty cool to watch them play, or even ask them the odd annoying question or piece of advice. Occasionally get roped into doubles games, or have a bit of fun.

Depends on your definition of "elite" - He is Fargo 800+
I won't put names out into the open space like this, just because it is impolite to do so. Can DM you the details if you want to know :)
 
Flakeandrun said:
There is a crew of them that generally roll in a pack. They regularly rock up and chill at my local hall (I guess the city is a good transit point between home and mainland for them), they lounge around, eat bing long and play the odd game. It's pretty cool to watch them play, or even ask them the odd annoying question or piece of advice. Occasionally get roped into doubles games, or have a bit of fun.

Depends on your definition of "elite" - He is Fargo 800+
I won't put names out into the open space like this, just because it is impolite to do so. Can DM you the details if you want to know :)
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Well that narrows it down to two likely suspects and one of them didn't travel to Qingdao, so I think I can guess 🤞

Great story, but I guess in hindsight it makes sense. The top Chinese pros seem to be in the 840+ zone so that's a tough matchup even with a spot.
 
kingwang said:
Well that narrows it down to two likely suspects and one of them didn't travel to Qingdao, so I think I can guess 🤞

Great story, but I guess in hindsight it makes sense. The top Chinese pros seem to be in the 840+ zone so that's a tough matchup even with a spot.
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I’d love to see more crossover between American and Chinese table players. Some of the guys who never touch the American table are frighteningly good.
 
you don't fall under great until you play one pocket. 9 ball is great skill but only one real aspect of the game.
 
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