Water Based Finishes

sharkster

sharkster

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I am switching to a water based finish. Considering Enduro, but open to others. I am set up to spray. Also, I have been doing several stacked leather wraps, and dye. Any problems with the dye migrating in these water based finishes? Feel free to pm if you dont wish to "put it out there"
Thanks
 
I am spraying Enduro-Var and like it a lot.

Nice lustrous finish, easy to work with.

Easy to clean up.

Reasonably priced.

I believe General Finishes also has an Enduro in their "Professional" line of finishes. Not sure which one you are referring to.

My 2 cents, (But I'm a newbee in this crowd)

Gary
 
Onepoolplayer said:
Can those Enduro poly w/crosslinker be brushed on or it has to be sprayed on?

Thanks.
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They can be brushed - the manufacturer recommends a foam brush if I remember correctly.

More info available at http://GeneralFinishes.com

It is available at WoodCraft or Rockler in pint cans, so you don't have to buy much to try it out.

I use about a thimble-full to spray one coat on two butts - goes a long way - but I spend more time cleaning up my spraygun than spraying.

FYI

Gary
 
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I'll go ahead and post anyway ...

I have tried several water based finishes, including the Enduro and have not found one I would even consider using on the shaft end of a cue.

I've also talked extensively with the guy where I buy my finish and he has told me they've got a ways to go before it's even close. He also told me the guys in town who use the water based finishes on cars cover it up with regular clear coat.

I'm sure the day will come, but it's not hear yet. At least based on my experience and research. If you can't spray, then why not consider a cyno finish. I used it on my first 5 or so cues and people didn't believe it wasn't automotive finish. It's a lot of work, but if done right will look really good. The Enduro just looks like cheap plastic in my opinion.
 
Gary, thanks for the link sir, I will def. check it out :grin:

Tony, thanks and appreciate your input as well. Regarding cyno finishes, any particular brand would you recommended? I understand that its the thin cyno but how thin? Are there diff. thickness cyno out there?

Thanks again for the info.

Frank.
 
Onepoolplayer said:
Gary, thanks for the link sir, I will def. check it out :grin:

Tony, thanks and appreciate your input as well. Regarding cyno finishes, any particular brand would you recommended? I understand that its the thin cyno but how thin? Are there diff. thickness cyno out there?

Thanks again for the info.

Frank.
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Rockler has a flexible CA.
CA's are very bad for you.
You will need a respirator as well.
 
I don't remember what brand I used, but it was Thin Cyno. Joey was right. You will need a respirator. Eye protection might help too.
 
finish rep's

Yeah my finish rep has nothing good to say about water based finishes either. But I also recognize that he does'nt sell much to non auto/rv markets. I have only 3 coats of the enduro on so far, but I like what I see. I will post a pic of the final product. I appreciate the opinions, for and against. I'm open for more suggestions.
Thanks
Steve
 
Tony Zinzola said:
I don't remember what brand I used, but it was Thin Cyno. Joey was right. You will need a respirator. Eye protection might help too.
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I have tried using the larger bottles like handy bond, and although cheap in cost, that stuff was a pain for me to work with, and it went bad very quickly if not used up at once.
It is expensive, but I have done several cues in the past, as well as shafts by using Loctite 454 as a base to build the cotes faster, and then a Loctite thin to help level It out when nearing the final stages. It will burn the crap out of your eyes about midway down the handle at times and I have had to finish applying while I was basically blinded temporarily.

It can be brittle, and I have refinished a cue that I built for a friend due to some chip outs around the butt area, but he later admitted to me that they were caused from a metal chair that he kept slamming the cue against while playing a tournament out of town. I have also had other friends tell me they have seen him treat the cue really badly. that cue stills rolls dead straight though, even though It was left leaning against a wall in front of a drafty exterior doorway day after day in the FL climate, so I'm thankful for that as It seems all the time spent slow turning pays off, but I was not thrilled about refinishing that cue due to abuse. It's a lot of work doing a finish using that method, and I would go broke if I continued using It due to the price, and also due to the many man hours of work It takes to get it perfect.
I have a couple of cues in My personal collection that were finished the same way. I built those in 2006-2007, and they have seen regular use since then, I have even hit them off of things pretty hard by accident on many occasions, yet the finish is still mint on both. There's not even any chipping near the faces. The point being is that I feel It is a very feasible finish providing the cues are not overly abused, but the stuff I prefer gets expensive really quickly, and It's a lot more work then spraying, minus the clean up that is.

I would love to find a waterborne that I like, I have some Dupont Chroma, but have been hesitant to use It until I'm properly set up to catch the fumes, so a water base would be nice, but I am sketched out due to personal experiences from the past. I Have not used the Enduro though. I would love to see some close up pictures of cues finished with it.
 
I would love to find a waterborne that I like, I have some Dupont Chroma, but have been hesitant to use It until I'm properly set up to catch the fumes, so a water base would be nice, but I am sketched out due to personal experiences from the past. I Have not used the Enduro though. I would love to see some close up pictures of cues finished with it.
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First, don't even using Chroma Clear in your shop. You will need to spray in an automotive booth for that then store the drying cues in a vault for days.
Try BSI's finish cure epoxy and Enduro.
Seal wood, then two coats of finish cure ( sand first coat two days after applying . I sand it with 400 then lightly scratch with 320 ).
Spray with Enduro , three coats 5 minutes apart. Let dry for a day. Sand with 400 and lightly scratch with 320.
Spray 3 coats again and let dry for 5 days and polish.
Thanks to Arnot for turning me into Enduro.
It might not look as good as Chroma Clear, PPG DC 3000 or 4125 or Imron, but sorry, we do too many dangerous stuff already.
 
Safety First - I like the dangerous stuff!

Hi,

All chemicals are dangerous and any exposure is cumulative. If you have not worked around chemical spays in the past or had chronic exposure to such, spaying pool cues in a spray booth with exhaust ventilation will never hurt you if you wear a respirator or breathing air mask.

Guys work in paint shops for entire careers and have good health. OSHA standards for exposure are very specific and you won't suffer ill effects by being smart and following the rules and procedures of the OEM. They wouldn't allow companies to sell the stuff if it were not safe to use. Just follow the directions.

I grew up in Chicago and Craig Peterson had problems and died from cancer and it has been reported to be a result of spraying Emron on cues. No one knows for sure if spraying cues caused his death but not wearing a mask could not have helped his situation. He may have been exposed to other nasty chemicals in his life and that may have been the root cause. Everyone assumes that spraying cues caused his death. "Simultaneous temporal events does not denote causal effect". Don't let urban legend scare you away from the best products for finishing your cues.

If you are finishing cues without using a booth with exhaust ventilation and are not wearing a chemical respirator or an air supplied breathing mask, the odds of you getting sick or dying from exposure go up exponentially. Change the way your are doing business right away! Don't think that using a waterborne product without safety equipment is ok.

All chemicals are bad for you and everyone has different levels for reactivity based on their body burden from past exposures and their own specific DNA makeup.

Also anyone who is using CA on a lathe with a fan blowing fumes around and thinks that's safe should change their procedures and equipment set up to include a mask and a booth with adequate exhaust venting.

Be smart, be safe, and make nice shinny cues!:thumbup:

Rick Geschrey
 
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I haven't used it in many years, but when I was starting out I think I tried every clear substance known to man (up to that point in the 80's) and what I had good results with was devcon 2ton epoxy. I'd mix up a batch on a playing card and spin it on the lathe using the playing card like a squeegee, then let it rotate at about 75 rpm's till it set up. After sanding to level and polishing out, it looked about as good as anything I've seen. I've had cues from back then come in for tip work that still look like new but they were taken care of. Just another option.
 
JoeyInCali said:
. . . . Try BSI's finish cure epoxy and Enduro.
Seal wood, then two coats of finish cure ( sand first coat two days after applying . I sand it with 400 then lightly scratch with 320 ).
Spray with Enduro , three coats 5 minutes apart. Let dry for a day. Sand with 400 and lightly scratch with 320.
Spray 3 coats again and let dry for 5 days and polish.
. . . . ..
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Joey,

As previously stated, I really like the Enduro, but "we must . . we must. . " try new things.
How do you apply the Finish Cure?
Reply by PM if you prefer.
Thanks!
Gary
 
GEBrown said:
Joey,

As previously stated, I really like the Enduro, but "we must . . we must. . " try new things.
How do you apply the Finish Cure?
Reply by PM if you prefer.
Thanks!
Gary
Click to expand...

I mix about 8 grams . I spread it with a neoprene glove ( blue one ) . I start from the middle down. Then some at the collar then down to the middle.
If the glove slips and you can see the build-up, it's enough.
 
Here is how to use the General Finishes Enduro Poly.

Rotate cue on lathe and apply Enduro sanding sealer evenly to the cue with a mustard bottle and paper towel.
Sand between coats.
4 or 5 coats should seal it nicely.
Apply Enduro Gloss with a spray gun building it up until it is smooth and milky (cloudy) looking.
You need the cue rotating to do this or the finish will run.
Continue rotating cue for aout 2 hours until the gloss id dry to the touch..
Might require sanding and a second coat of gloss.
(most dont)
Let set for 24 hours then wet sand with 600 and polish out.

IMHO auto clear coat is the best finish for a cue but Enduro works well and is much safer and easier to clean up the equipment.
 
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