What are the differences between TAP & APA leagues

[Bamacues]

Can anyone explain the differences between these 2 leagues?

I am considering joining one of these leagues and would like to know the differences and also the pros and cons of each league.

I would think I will be rated as a higher number and don't want to be frustrated with sandbaggers or other handicap related issues.

Thanks

Kevin

Kevin,

I played APA for around 10 years...quit in 2009. I played TAP off and on 5 or 6 years...quit in 2012. My APA teams made Vegas 7 of the 10 years. My TAP teams made Nationals once.

Best part of TAP is the Dream Team event at SBE.

There is the "Known Player" rule in both leagues whereby, if you are a "known" high skill player, you should enter either league at a higher skill level....doesn't always happen, with a new player, but I am sure that if York is to start leagues, either one will adjust some players S/L. Otherwise, every male player starts as S/L 4 and every female player as S/L 3 (8-ball). It doesn't take long for skill levels to adjust.

Sandbagging occurs with all leagues, just like it does when 2 pool players are trying to negotiate weight. No real way to stop it. If caught sandbagging by TAP (based on a mathematical formula) at titleholders or higher level tourny, they disqualify you. In APA, they raise your skill level on the spot, and disqualify you if you are raised 2 times. In league play, it simply occurs.

TAP is call your shot...basically, no slop. I always liked that...plus the 25 point team numbers, but TAP also adjusts your SL much faster than APA.

Bottom line is, if you align yourself with a bunch of folks who you like anyway, and that you enjoy playing with, you will enjoy either league. I always played with a great bunch of guys (and gals). I enjoyed both leagues.

If you are in either league to make money, you should not join up. Even if you win an APA trip to Vegas, the winnings won't cover your expenses, plus your APA winnings are taxable. TAP is the about the same, as far as Nationals go. You can win some cash at Titleholders...not much, though.

Best of luck to you,
Joe

 

[poolguy4u]

Kevin...you'd start out as a 5 because you wear Harley Clothes and shoot with a Timmy Scruggs Cue and Trob would start out as a 4 because he wears glasses and isn't quit as big as you. Anyone that weighs 150 or less will start out lower.


:welcome: to TAP League!

 

[Sam at TAP]

TAP Nationals

I also want to point out that at TAP's nationals teams are paid in cash/check and the full amount that is posted. I have been told that the APA national 8 ball winners in 2013 received approx. $18,000 of the $25,000 advertised. The rest was prizes such as jackets, trophies, cues, etc. and these were deducted off the total prize money posted. I am guessing full blown retail too. In fact, one TAP licensee actually was shown the receipt (these players were some of her TAP players as well) that the player received a key chain and this was deducted from the money. Really? A key chain? Amazing. Not publicly saying this is right or wrong. You make the call BUT........With TAP, you get the full amount posted. No hidden agendas.

PS...Ask any TAP player at the Rally this year if they had to pay for their trophies from the prize money they won.

 

[Banks]

I also want to point out that at TAP's nationals teams are paid in cash/check and the full amount that is posted. I have been told that the APA national 8 ball winners in 2013 received approx. $18,000 of the $25,000 advertised. The rest was prizes such as jackets, trophies, cues, etc. and these were deducted off the total prize money posted. I am guessing full blown retail too. In fact, one TAP licensee actually was shown the receipt (these players were some of her TAP players as well) that the player received a key chain and this was deducted from the money. Really? A key chain? Amazing. Not publicly saying this is right or wrong. You make the call BUT........With TAP, you get the full amount posted. No hidden agendas.

PS...Ask any TAP player at the Rally this year if they had to pay for their trophies from the prize money they won.

The prize list for apa can be found, so it isn't a mystery. I got some decent cash last year. My third place paid about $3550 in cash. What did yours pay? My trophy also wasn't part of the prize. Really nice that you act like you know so much, yet insist on putting out misleading information. Stay classy.

 

[lorider]

i will settle the question between the 2 leagues. forget both and play napa. this coming from a staunch supporter on here of apa.

napa has no yearly fee vs 20.00 for tap and 25.00 for tap. btw any one hesitating to join a league that has a 20.00 or 25.00 membership fee which equates to .15 to 20 cents a week don't need to be playing pool.

napa has no team handicap limit vs 25 for tap and 23 for apa.

napa has a wider range of handicaps and a wider range of races to your handicap. as you know anything can happen in a short race.

napa is geared for the serious player but the handicaps and races allow for lower level players to be some what competitive.

i play apa and napa. i have also been to the nationals in both.went with team for apa nad singles with napa twice. the napa nationals was by far the better ran tournament.

napa also moves their nationals around. i have only been it for 2 years now but i have been to the one in nashville, the one at the southern classic in tunica and hopefully go to the one in atlanta this year.

napa has online scoring .

napa has stats for everything under the sun.....and the moon too. wanna know if you play better under a full moon or half moon ? napa has those stats covered.

napa has stats showing where you rank nationally in every stat imaginable.

wanna know how you would fare against another napa player you have never faced ? just click the tab and it will give you all of you and your chosen opponents strengths and weaknesses. napa lists both guys stats and tells you

who wins the lag most lags
who has a higher win % in 8,9 or 10 ball
who has the most break and runs
who has the most 9 snaps
who has the most shut outs
etc...etc...etc
i could go on and on about the stats napa keeps on you.

we have strictly 8 ball divisions but i play in 2 laggers choice division. whoever wins the lag can elect what game to play ...8...9...or 10 ball. or you can defer to your opponent and choose to break 1st.
a lot of strategy in not only matching up players according to s/ls but whether to choose what game to play or to break 1st.

did i mention napa has a stat for your winning lag % and your win % if you win the lag.

i win the lag 58% of the time. i have a 63% win record if i win the lag. un believable number of stats they give you.

 

[Sam at TAP]

Tap nationals

I am staying classy. I was told this by a TAP licensee in La. that saw this receipt with her own eyes. I mentioned this because someone posted that the APA pays out more but team for team, TAP actually pays out more at our nationals. Not trying to offend anyone. Just saying what was told to me. Hopefully I can get this TAP licensee to come on here and post what she saw.

 

[Sam at TAP]

Napa

That's funny you should post this. A club that sponsored NAPA here is finishing up the session and kicking them out and going to a in house league. The reason I was told by a club member...cheating, no shows, arguing, etc. I was told the L.OP. even cheats for his own team. Good choice....LOL

PS...Also I was told by two players that went to their nationals that team captains get a automatic spot in the nationals. Knowing this they saw many of these players in the 60-80 range way undercapped knowing full well they could lay down during the year and come in undercapped. Again, this was all told to me by players there.

Personally, I think every pool player should pick what league to play in based on what is is right for them. It really does not matter to me. I just try to tell you what TAP has to offer compared to the others. TAP is busy on a national level and I am busy both in the sales office and locally with my own league. TAP is celebrating our 25th year this year. We are not going anywhere but up. It's the players choice. Choose wisely.

 

[Banks]

I am staying classy. I was told this by a TAP licensee in La. that saw this receipt with her own eyes. I mentioned this because someone posted that the APA pays out more but team for team, TAP actually pays out more at our nationals. Not trying to offend anyone. Just saying what was told to me. Hopefully I can get this TAP licensee to come on here and post what she saw.

Oh, so you don't actually have facts is what you're saying. Obviously that's not a problem when you "present your side." You paid more, too, but no numbers? Come on, surely you have more "facts" you can put in writing.

 

[Sam at TAP]

Tap nationals

Let's do the math....TAP paid out $10,000 CASH (not prizes) to our nationals champion this past year.

APA paid out $25,000 in cash included in this is PRIZES.

We both can agree on this, correct?

So with this being said....TAP had approx. 100 eight ball teams at our nationals...APA had over 600 ....DO THE MATH. If you have basic math skills then I believe you can figure this out in your head. Or do I need to explain it to you?

Team for team or as they say...pound for pound...YES, TAP paid more.

 

[cynthiachappell]

Thanks so much Lyn. I remember you I'll keep trying to get Jerry back into the game.....just have to find the right team. It's good for him to get out and he loves pool so much.

Cindy

 

[lorider]

That's funny you should post this. A club that sponsored NAPA here is finishing up the session and kicking them out and going to a in house league. The reason I was told by a club member...cheating, no shows, arguing, etc. I was told the L.OP. even cheats for his own team. Good choice....LOL

PS...Also I was told by two players that went to their nationals that team captains get a automatic spot in the nationals. Knowing this they saw many of these players in the 60-80 range way undercapped knowing full well they could lay down during the year and come in undercapped. Again, this was all told to me by players there.

Personally, I think every pool player should pick what league to play in based on what is is right for them. It really does not matter to me. I just try to tell you what TAP has to offer compared to the others. TAP is busy on a national level and I am busy both in the sales office and locally with my own league. TAP is celebrating our 25th year this year. We are not going anywhere but up. It's the players choice. Choose wisely.

disclaimer; i am trying to stay classy myself.

i am just curious about something.

you mentioned cheaters in napa in your area. what makes your area so full of cheaters ?

the apa in your area had cheaters . you had the same cheaters playing tap. just wondering if its those same cheaters now playing napa or do you have a whole bunch of other cheaters in your area ?

an lo in tour area cheating? its quite possible considering the number of pool players in your area cheating. is there some thing in the water up there causing all this cheating or is it just the way people are raised in your area ?

just funnin with you there .:thumbup: cheating goes on in all leagues in all areas. its no reflection of any league its just the way society is now a days it seems.the world is full of people who bend or break rules to their advantage.

as for captains being automatically eligible for nationals ? yea its true.

people complaining about 60 to 80 years old under handicapped ? sounds like some people doing the same old " i lost to an under handicapped player" and its embarasing they were 60 to 80 years old.

sounds like they must have run into the old lady from oklahoma i faced last year. that lil old lady had to been about 70 years old . her handicap was a 69 and i am a 57. she gave me one of the toughest matches i have ever had.it was a 5-4 race and i finally won 4-4.

it was a grueling 4 hour saftey battle. that lil old lady was about 5'2'' standing straight up but she was only 4'8'' hunched over hobbling around the table pocketing the shit outa balls.

you saw they claim there was several 60to 80 years old there that were underhandicapped ? thankfully she is the only one i ran into.

you don't think any of them mighta been talking about me do you ? i am 60 and been told i am pretty good for my handicap. ...and yea i am a captain too.

 

[Banks]

Let's do the math....TAP paid out $10,000 CASH (not prizes) to our nationals champion this past year.

APA paid out $25,000 in cash and PRIZES.

We both can agree on this, correct?

So with this being said....TAP had approx. 100 eight ball teams at our nationals...APA had over 600 ....DO THE MATH. If you have basic math skills then I believe you can figure this out in your head. Or do I need to explain it to you?

Team for team or as they say...pound for pound...YES, TAP paid more.

I tried to find information on your tournaments, but I couldn't find numbers($$) anywhere. A previous post mentioned that APA(and BCA, too) makes you pay taxes. Now, if you're not submitting the proper paperwork for all of that, you could be setting up TAP and the receiving players for a big problem.

APA also has both 8b and 9b team events, 8 ladies event, scotch event and Masters event. Their singles event is also for 8b, 9b and Jack and Jill. The majority of their prize is in cash and has been changing more so since I first went to Vegas in 2006.

If you want to act like that, maybe you can explain the tax thing to me, because I'm really curious about that. No, seriously.. explain it. Isn't this fun?

Edit: I can't find what I was thinking of re: the taxes. I know somebody mentioned players getting W-9's as a negative for APA, maybe it was another thread.

 

[lorider]

Let's do the math....TAP paid out $10,000 CASH (not prizes) to our nationals champion this past year.

APA paid out $25,000 in cash included in this is PRIZES.

We both can agree on this, correct?

So with this being said....TAP had approx. 100 eight ball teams at our nationals...APA had over 600 ....DO THE MATH. If you have basic math skills then I believe you can figure this out in your head. Or do I need to explain it to you?

Team for team or as they say...pound for pound...YES, TAP paid more.

1st let me say... i play league because i enjoy playing pool ....not to try to reach the pie in the sky at the end of the year.

with that said it don't really matter to me what league pays most but i would like to put the amount of teams vying for nationals in perspective.

you mentioned 100 tap teams vs 600 apa teams vs 10,000.00 vs 25,000.00. with apa being quite a bit larger than tap it could be said tap has 600 teams vs apa having 6,000 teams.

theoretically that would put the same percentage of members in each league vying for the money in their respective leagues.

so you see it can be spun however you want to look at it. bottom line is 1st place in apa pays more than 1st in tap.

 

[cynthiachappell]

I'll expand on a couple of things in regards to TAP and also direct you to our local website to read more about all that we do and what we are about. www.taplasvegas.com. If you don't live in Las Vegas, you can learn about it also at www.tapleague.com or call 800-984-7665.

:thumbup:TAP Nationals are held in awesome resort destinations:

2013 - Pheasant Run Resort in St. Charles, IL (just outside of Chicago)
2014 - Hilton Anatole in Dallas, Texas!
2015 - Gaylord Opryland Resort in Nashville!

TAP's score keeping application is fully integrated with PoolNet and pulls live and up to date information on teams, rosters and handicaps. It makes score keeping a breeze with everything contained within the application and the ability to submit it to the league operator. It revolutionizes score keeping for pool league players.

PoolNet also provides very robust statistical information for the players and teams. Within PoolNet, players can see their team statistics and how each player is performing.

:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:Who's The Best provides a comparative analysis of the performance in several categories, such as Most 8-Ball Breaks, Break & Runs, etc. Players can choose to compare locally or within the U.S. and/or Canada. Players can also choose the time frame in which they wish to compare.

Individual statistics can also be found in PoolNet. This is called the Scout Module. Players can view their overall detailed performance, as well as, their performance against defined skill levels.

TAP League is continually growing and evolving, bringing players the best in weekly league play and national tournament play across the U.S. and Canada. They are continually working for the player to bring new products, such as, 10-ball, Scotch Doubles, Xtreme, Who's the Best and the recently released Scorekeeper.

I've competed in 2 other leagues, been involved with others and played at national events for 20 years. From my experience, this league by far has expanded and added more benefits for the players than any other league. I was so impressed, that I purchased the Clark County franchise and became a league operator 8 years ago and formed TAP Las Vegas. Best decision I ever made.

 

[cynthiachappell]

I'll expand on a couple of things in regards to TAP and also direct you to our local website to read more about all that we do and what we are about. www.taplasvegas.com. The main website is www.tapleague.com.

:thumbup:TAP Nationals are held in awesome resort destinations:

2013 - Pheasant Run Resort in St. Charles, IL (just outside of Chicago)
2014 - Hilton Anatole in Dallas, Texas!
2015 - Gaylord Opryland Resort in Nashville!

TAP's score keeping application is fully integrated with PoolNet and pulls live and up to date information on teams, rosters and handicaps. It makes score keeping a breeze with everything contained within the application and the ability to submit it to the league operator. It revolutionizes score keeping for pool league players.

PoolNet also provides very robust statistical information for the players and teams. Within PoolNet, players can see their team statistics and how each player is performing.

Who's The Best provides a comparative analysis of the performance in several categories, such as Most 8-Ball Breaks, Break & Runs, etc. Players can choose to compare locally or within the U.S. and/or Canada. Players can also choose the time frame in which they wish to compare.

Individual statistics can also be found in PoolNet. This is called the Scout Module. Players can view their overall detailed performance, as well as, their performance against defined skill levels.

TAP League is continually growing and evolving, bringing players the best in weekly league play and national tournament play across the U.S. and Canada. They are continually working for the player to bring new products, such as, 10-ball, Scotch Doubles, Xtreme, Who's the Best and the recently released Scorekeeper.

I've competed in 2 other leagues, been involved with others and played at national events for 20 years. From my experience, this league by far has expanded and added more benefits for the players than any other league. I was so impressed, that I purchased the Clark County franchise and became a league operator 8 years ago and formed TAP Las Vegas. Best decision I ever made. If you love pool, you should give it a shot.

 

[cynthiachappell]

If Nationals is your goal, in TAP, many of the payouts change in Nationals from year to year based on participation. Traditionally TAP has paid out 100% of the registration money to the winners in singles. I see 1st place in the team event always winning $10K or more. In Vegas, TAP has a much shorter ladder to climb in TAP vs. APA (which was the original topic) and it is less expensive for the player to get there.....at least in Vegas. We have one local tournament that only costs the teams $50 and the singles $35 and we even award paid entries. The winners of these tournaments win prize packages that take them to Nationals.

I'm not an expert on the other league, but what I've seen and competed in previously is tri's, cities, qualifiers that cost each time you play or you pay the total if you win. They take you to regionals in another city where they pay their own travel expenses and they have to place 1st or 2nd to get into nationals. I'm not sure if 2nd even advances though. Quite a few steps and expensive (in my book) to get to nationals.

The road to nationals in the other leagues seem to vary from state to state. Although they do vary in TAP, the things that remain consistent is that 1 in every 18 to 20 go to Nationals and players can buy into the singles event and they have a buy in dream team and there are 2 national events that bring countless players from across the U.S. and Canada to compete. 10-ball, scotch doubles and Xtreme are being added to future national events.

Regardless, players aren't going to get rich playing in a National event or playing in league. It is a proud moment when a player and/or team wins Nationals. We've had 2 National champions and several teams and players place. It's an exciting and for many a once in a lifetime experience....whether they win or lose. Last year, we took 30 players to Chicago! What a party!!

www.taplasvegas.com - www.tapleague.com

 

[APA Operator]

Let's do the math....TAP paid out $10,000 CASH (not prizes) to our nationals champion this past year.

APA paid out $25,000 in cash included in this is PRIZES.

We both can agree on this, correct?

So with this being said....TAP had approx. 100 eight ball teams at our nationals...APA had over 600 ....DO THE MATH. If you have basic math skills then I believe you can figure this out in your head. Or do I need to explain it to you?

Team for team or as they say...pound for pound...YES, TAP paid more.

I don't want people to join my league for money paid out at nationals or anywhere else. I want them to join to have fun and make friends. They're more likely to stay if they enjoy the league, and pretty much none of them could care less about which league pays out more per team at their national championships.

That said, if you want to do math (or explain it to someone, as you so graciously offered), you might want to actually do it right. Start with the over $200,000 paid out IN CASH to the 8-Ball teams at the APA National Team Championships BEFORE THE TOURNAMENT EVEN STARTS. Then you can add in the additional money paid out (100% IN CASH) to teams advancing to the money rounds. Do the same for TAP. If you're gonna divide by the team count, you probably should count the entire purse.

I don't know what the actual per-team amount is for either league. I put the figure at around $1000 per team for APA. For all I know, you could be right, it might be higher for TAP. But I don't care about the answer, only that you do the math the right way, especially if you think you might need to explain it to someone else. Oh, and I do wish you would stop spreading untruths about the APA. The purse at the National Team Championships is 100% cash/check.

 

[lorider]

If Nationals is your goal, in TAP, many of the payouts change in Nationals from year to year based on participation. Traditionally TAP has paid out 100% of the registration money to the winners in singles. I see 1st place in the team event always winning $10K or more. In Vegas, TAP has a much shorter ladder to climb in TAP vs. APA (which was the original topic) and it is less expensive for the player to get there.....at least in Vegas. We have one local tournament that only costs the teams $50 and the singles $35 and we even award paid entries. The winners of these tournaments win prize packages that take them to Nationals.

I'm not an expert on the other league, but what I've seen and competed in previously is tri's, cities, qualifiers that cost each time you play or you pay the total if you win. They take you to regionals in another city where they pay their own travel expenses and they have to place 1st or 2nd to get into nationals. I'm not sure if 2nd even advances though. Quite a few steps and expensive (in my book) to get to nationals.

The road to nationals in the other leagues seem to vary from state to state. Although they do vary in TAP, the things that remain consistent is that 1 in every 18 to 20 go to Nationals and players can buy into the singles event and they have a buy in dream team and there are 2 national events that bring countless players from across the U.S. and Canada to compete. 10-ball, scotch doubles and Xtreme are being added to future national events.

Regardless, players aren't going to get rich playing in a National event or playing in league. It is a proud moment when a player and/or team wins Nationals. We've had 2 National champions and several teams and players place. It's an exciting and for many a once in a lifetime experience....whether they win or lose. Last year, we took 30 players to Chicago! What a party!!

www.taplasvegas.com - www.tapleague.com[/QUOT

i think you have been mis informed about qualifying for apa nationals. my experience qualifying is as follows.

team event.

each session winner qualifies for the cities. 3 sessions a year.
top half finishers of each session qualify for tri cups. 3 tri cups a year
3 brackets in tri cups. the winners of each bracket top and bottom. ....in other words the winners of the losers bracket also qualify. 6 teams total from each tri cup qualify for cities.
the 8 and 9 ball cities sends 2 teams from each format to nationals.
this year we sent a ladies only team that had a total of only 4 teams playing.

thats not counting masters ...scotch doubles.

all and i mean " ALL " qualifying team tournaments for nationals are free. you only pay quarters for your matches. all qualifying matches are played right here at home.

you are correct some what about the regionals. that is the singles regionals. to ways to qualify.

1. win the top gun tournament for your handicap. 20.00 entry and cash back if you win " amount based on number of entrants" plus entry into the singles regionals.

2. several times a year we hold qualifying boards. again 20.00 entry. no cash back ...just entry.

our singles regionals are held in nashville every year. centrally located and does not take long to get to from any where in the state. my g/f and i treat it as a mini vacation taking in opryland and the entertainment district down town. the regionals are free...just pay your quarters for your matches.

in other words if i dont win top gun ....20.00 bucks and a 3 hour trip to nashville gets me a trip to vegas....based on whether i win or not .:grin-square:

 

[cynthiachappell]

I don't think I've been misinformed for our area and I even used to play and experience it first hand. It appears each league operator does things a little differently. Yours sounds similar to our area. What is more the same in APA for every area from those I've heard from is that 1 in every 50 and up to 1 in every 100 teams go to Nationals, but I've not seen any better ratio that what TAP has and that's 1 in every 18 to 20. It's my favorite thing about league.....getting to take 30 players this past year was awesome!! Our 16 year old handicap 2 won his bracket.....now that was an incredible experience. Another story though.....

 

[RunOut Apps]

I tried to find information on your tournaments, but I couldn't find numbers($$) anywhere. A previous post mentioned that APA(and BCA, too) makes you pay taxes. Now, if you're not submitting the proper paperwork for all of that, you could be setting up TAP and the receiving players for a big problem.

APA also has both 8b and 9b team events, 8 ladies event, scotch event and Masters event. Their singles event is also for 8b, 9b and Jack and Jill. The majority of their prize is in cash and has been changing more so since I first went to Vegas in 2006.

If you want to act like that, maybe you can explain the tax thing to me, because I'm really curious about that. No, seriously.. explain it. Isn't this fun?

Edit: I can't find what I was thinking of re: the taxes. I know somebody mentioned players getting W-9's as a negative for APA, maybe it was another thread.

That teams payout receipt was posted on FB, and if I remember correct was $18,007 after the taxes and jackets, patches, pens and other goodies were deducted from the advertised 25K Payout. But that doesn't really matter now does it. It was an amateur tourney paying a first place team 18K in Cash, which seem pretty neat until you consider this Mr Banks..

At TAP Nationals, teams are guaranteed 4 rounds and 18 individual matches.
At Nationals APA guarantees the team 2 rounds and 6 individual matches

In TAP, teams get 300% more playing time to prove themselves at the Nationals Tournament guaranteed,


Last year at TAP Nationals in team 8Ball, there were 100 teams and the event paid out 10K to the winning team.

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Last year at APA Nationals there were 800+ teams, and the event paid out 18,007 in cash..plus some shiney new key chains and letterman's jackets. (It is noted that TAP gives a similar swag bags..minus the letterman jacket...to each player upon arrival, just to be fair:wink.


But If we go by this last years comparison for first place payouts...When TAP hits 800+ teams at nationals?? The first place team would Win $80,000 dollars, not 18K...right?

At the 2013 Nationals, for first place, every $1.00 TAP paid out? the APA would have only paid 0.22 cents.

Simply put.. Teams get paid in TAP and get 3X the guaranteed tournament action and then get 3X+ the payouts relative to APA for the same cost.