What Causes "Shoveling?"

[Skippy27]

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, because I don't mean it anyway but sincerely, but just based on what you wrote I'm actually not sure what part you disagree with.

I would venture to guess the part that you pretty much told him to leave him alone until he ask for help.

I did have a guy once that lines up way off center and high of the ball but during his final stroke he hit's the ball where he wants whether it be low, center or side. Craziest thing I've seen and he is a damn good shot. I told him that one day and his response was "no I dont". I laughed and said I just watched you take 3 shots with me looking right down your aim line, yes you do. His response, "no I dont". Now that guy... you can't fix because he is too arrogant to admit he has a flaw that needs fixing and thus he will probably never get much better.

 

[HawaiianEye]

I would venture to guess the part that you pretty much told him to leave him alone until he ask for help.

I did have a guy once that lines up way off center and high of the ball but during his final stroke he hit's the ball where he wants whether it be low, center or side. Craziest thing I've seen and he is a damn good shot. I told him that one day and his response was "no I dont". I laughed and said I just watched you take 3 shots with me looking right down your aim line, yes you do. His response, "no I dont". Now that guy... you can't fix because he is too arrogant to admit he has a flaw that needs fixing and thus he will probably never get much better.

Ever watch Francisco Bustamante? He slings his cue around like Zorro does his sword, but he delivers the tip where he wants it when he hits the cue ball.

 

[Zphix]

Best way to make enemies in pool and golf:

"Fix" their stroke. When they want it fixed, assuming they think it's broken, they'll ask.

There's no way to fix anything like this without breaking it first...and they'll go through weeks of frustration. Actually, they'll most likely just try it for an hour or so, and then give up, blame you, and you're the idiot.

Anyhow, just some friendly advice. If they ask, offer some advice, but be prepared to own it. If they don't ask, just shut up because they're not ready and/or it's working for them.

I just went through this. After a long hiatus, my stroke had gone to crap. I went to a lesson (first in my life). He told me what to do. It felt very awkward, but I stuck with it...shot like crap for a while. I've just started shooting well again in the last couple of weeks or so. It's a LONG road, but you have to recognize your crappiness and really want to fix it before you can make any progress. It's been over a month, and it's still not perfectly natural for me. A few days ago, I hurt my back and I went right back to crap because I couldn't concentrate on it. It hard work to fix things once they're broken.

He's aware of his problem and doesn't like it so he asked me to help him out - I haven't set any house rules yet so I don't know how serious he is about fixing it but until I determine his actual want to change then I'm neutral about it.

Even if he turns out to be someone who doesn't want to change or improve for whatever reason then so be it, I'd still like to know what causes this in case somebody in the future has the issue and is looking for help.

 

[john coloccia]

He's aware of his problem and doesn't like it so he asked me to help him out - I haven't set any house rules yet so I don't know how serious he is about fixing it but until I determine his actual want to change then I'm neutral about it.

Even if he turns out to be someone who doesn't want to change or improve for whatever reason then so be it, I'd still like to know what causes this in case somebody in the future has the issue and is looking for help.

In that case, why not start simple with the stroking in and out of a bottle drill?

 

[john coloccia]

Is Mike Davis shoveling? If so, sign me up....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2IUsHUP1vA

What's interesting, though, is if you watch his entire stroke and his follow through, he doesn't end up in the air like you'd think. Most of the time, he strokes pretty straight through the cue ball and has that classic dip at the end, the opposite of what someone might guess.

He's like the Jim Furyk of pool. Crazy back swing but very sound fundamentals around the ball where it counts.