what cushion type replaced K27

C

chucknduck

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I have been working on this old Victor 5 X 10 (estimate 1930's-40's) ,still don't know what the model is.
(see main forum posting ...http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=247673&highlight=victor+billiard+table)
and I have got to point where I am replacing old cushions (They are stamped "Willie Hoppe extra speed" " fast K27" "Manhattan rubber company mfg division, Raybesto's Manhattan inc".
dimensions are 1 1/4 at back and 1 1/8 top and bottom. Measurements are close approximation. Found diagram of K27 profile ( New Encyclopedia of billiards) page 76 under cushion profile and has mounting side width at 1 and 9/32 and 1 inch thick from mount side (center) to the point where ball makes contact... Rail mount angle 20 degrees +/- 1 as best as I can tell.
 

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K27 cushions???? surely someone out there has replaced them

I understand that this table seems to be odd man out among all the gold crowns etc., and it is around 80 years old/young but with all the technical info I've seen on this forum somebody or know of some older billiard table rail expert that has seen or worked on a set up like this..
 
I've been working on various types of table for a lot of years now and I have not had the opportunity to replace a set of K27 cushions, So I can not help you from personal experience. Perhaps someone else here can. If not I would suggest that you contact the folks at Classic Billiards... http://www.classicbilliards.net/. If anyone has experience with replacing these, I believe they would.
 
funny you should mention him

Went to see Ken at his shop (lucky he lives nearby) and get advice on restoring (staining and poly, etc.) rail tops (had to match edge of top which was different wood than surface with sights which is rosewood) and also had him check out cushions which are still on rails. If I remember correctly he said K66 may work but sub rail may need different angle. This may be one of those situations where I need to mock up a sub rail (section) and test various angles until I get it right. Right now the old ones (nose) look to sit at 1 13/32 from table height which with my limited knowledge appears to be right.
I am really hoping to find out from someone out there who has worked on these and can tell me what correct steps to take before I start cutting anything.
 
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At the current 1 13/32" nose height you're 1/32 off (low). The cushion dimensions you mentioned are close to K66.
If you are definitely replacing the cushions you could test fit a small piece of scrap K66 just to see where you are
with nose height. If not right on then I'd think re-cutting the subrail angle is an option with a good quality table saw.

It would help to also know the measurement from the railcap side of the featherstrip to the nose of the cushion as
any modifications you might make may affect the playfield dimensions. In fact, you should check the playfield
dimensions before doing anything just to see if they are correct. It's possible the existing cushions are not correct
if previously replaced.
 
more measurements

As one can tell,this is all new to me having never worked on a table before so I'm reading up and getting as much info as possible before completing this step. Trying not to get to exacting but it seems hard not to with the rails.
The cushions are original,.. I called Lanza billiards and spoke with Ed about these K27's stamped with Willie Hoppe and said they had to stop using them (with Willie name on) along time ago (40's or 50's if I remember what he said correctly) due to another company using the name. The measurement from the featherstrip to nose is just under 1 and 15/16 and the rail angle is at 21.4 degrees ("approx") . I mocked up a strip of wood that matches the rail thickness and put several shorts blocks to imitate sub railangles from 19 through 23 degrees and will test k66 on these plus local shop will test one of the rails with cushion also. As far as checking the play area I'm not sure how to go about that since slates won't go on until I finish basement (doing all the dirty work,stripping, sanding, staining ,poly etc while workshop/basement is unfinished so theres no worry's about making a mess)
 
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