What do you aim at?

[Joe T]

What I don't think you undersand is that by aiming the center of the CB to the edge of the OB on "that particular shot" does not mean that the center of the CB hits the contact point....what happens is the front part of the CB that is closest to the pocket aka the actual "contact point" contacts the actual "contact point" on the OB....ala the Joe Tucker Numbers system......

Just want to make a little clarification here. The contact point on the cue ball nearest the intended pocket is not the correct contact point, unless you're straight in. That method I believe was in Hal Mixs book and I don't know if it was a misprint or not but that method of identifying the cue balls contact point would cause you to hit shots too full.

My method is based on parallel contact points using numbers as labels or symbols to easily identify them and match them up.

 

[Fred Agnir]

OK ding bat, here it is. I don't really give a shit if you like it or not.

Your left this after the break.

START(
%Aa9G2%BI5N5%C]5D2%Di0X2%E\8W3%FI0G9%GB4[9%Ht3B7%IU0E3%Pl8G2
%WD2Z9%X`5H0
)END

No '1/4 or 1/8 etc.' of the 'cue ball or object ball' type of approximations are going to work. .

This is the exact type of shot I've diagrammed and discussed. If you are having issues with this shot, maybe you do need to look at some of these systems.

Fred

 

[Joe T]

This is the exact type of shot I've diagrammed and discussed. If you are having issues with this shot, maybe you do need to look at some of these systems.

Fred

It's a 3-3 contact point.

 

[drivermaker]

I'm no pro but I play well enough and know the game well enough that several people on here have came up to me at events and said thank you for helping them.

That's nice...now go write a book and make a fortune. I guess what your above statement goes to show is...no matter how bad you are as a player...there's always somebody worse that you can help in some way or another.

You should have stuck to your guns that you posted on your very first one of this thread, which was you weren't going to get sucked in.

Well you did, and as usual if it has anything at all to do with aiming you end up showing just how LITTLE you really know. All it comes down to in your mind is contact point, contact point, contact point...and you know NOTHING else. Eventually the CB/OB ARE going to contact at two points, but it's not necessary to obsess about them prior to making the shot. And you're just NEVER going to figure it out. (A) You're to thick headed and (B) you're just a know-it-all old coot that's a pain in the ass.

 

[BRKNRUN]

Just want to make a little clarification here. The contact point on the cue ball nearest the intended pocket is not the correct contact point, unless you're straight in. That method I believe was in Hal Mixs book and I don't know if it was a misprint or not but that method of identifying the cue balls contact point would cause you to hit shots too full.

My method is based on parallel contact points using numbers as labels or symbols to easily identify them and match them up.

Sorry...No bad intentions...the concepts have some similarities...The point I was trying to make is that the furthest point from the pocket on the OB and the point closest to the pocket on the CB......at "impact" of the two balls.....those two points have to meet...

(everyone please save their comments on contact induced throw and such)

My point was that in the HH 3-line system... what your seeing as the "aim point" is NOT where the two balls actually contact each other...

 

[Joe T]

Sorry...No bad intentions...the concepts have some similarities...The point I was trying to make is that the furthest point from the pocket on the OB and the point closest to the pocket on the CB......at "impact" of the two balls.....those two points have to meet...

(everyone please save their comments on contact induced throw and such)

My point was that in the HH 3-line system... what your seeing as the "aim point" is NOT where the two balls actually contact each other...

Gotcha, it's cool. At impact yes.

 

[TheConArtist]

Let's just say for S & G that you're correct, and furthermore assume that it's actually a conscious adjustment rather than a subconscious one. Given the finite point aiming system, and the fact that I (and I ain't the only one, brother) can shoot blind back cuts and other typically difficult pots with this beautiful system under fire, under tournament conditions, under heinously tight pockets, what's the downside?

That it isn't traditional? That it isn't ghost ball? That people might actually start to pocket more balls? That they'll lose their posting priveleges?

Under fire is the most important aspect in any of these systems (banking, aiming, and position play systems). I've been putting mine to the test. It works.

Fred

Hey Fred thanks for the PM, and i just wanted to say it has worked miracles for me, and i just seen a match with The Great Fransico, and it seemed to me that he was using this method Pivot. Cause when he was lining up his shots he wasn't anywhere near center ball but when he stroked the cueball on his final stroke you could see him hitting center ball or using whatever english he intended too. Again Thanks. Cole.

 

[BRKNRUN]

Center of the cue ball at the edge of the object ball. On this example the object ball will hit the end rail at approximately position 'A' missing the shot by at least 1 foot.

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%Aq5M6%CJ5O4%GK6N8%JK6M5%LJ5N2%OJ5M0%Pm1P2%Qs3I9%UY9L3%VS9I6
%Wp5N6%Xf6S6%eB0a4
)END


Center of the cue ball at the edge of the object ball on this lesser cut over cuts the shot to position 'A' missing the shot by about 8 inches.

START(
%Ah7L3%CJ5O4%GK6N8%JK6M5%LJ5N2%OJ5M0%Pe4N3%Qo3A9%UY9L3%VS9I6
%Wg8M4%X_8P7%eB0a4
)END


On this one cut angle it does work.

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%Am1J9%CJ5O4%GK6N8%JK6M5%LJ5N2%OJ5M0%Pe5N4%Qs5B1%UY9L3%VS9I6
%Wl0L1%X_8P7%eB0a4
)END

Shots can be from 0 degrees through about 88 degrees. Depending on the size of the pocket and how far away the object ball is from the pocket, aiming through the center of the cue ball toward the edge of the object ball only works at most about 10 percent of these angles.

Drivermaker this "aiming the center of the cue ball toward the edge of the object ball" is what I said was stupid. And it is. I didn't say that Hal's system was stupid. You all are saying that Hal's system works so I'm assuming that this isn't it because this doesn't work. It doesn't even come close to working.

Fred's system sounds a little more feasible. He is talking about a contact point. I use back hand enghish and I think I might understand what he is saying. I don't think it works in all cases but could be used as a reference. What I don't like about it is using english on every shot. I try to use english on as few shots as possible.

Do you think that I was trying to say that every shot can be made with center CB to edge OB????

Regarding your shots above.
#1 - 1/4 CB to edge of OB
#2 - Center CB to 1/4 of OB
#3 - Center CB to edge of OB

(THESE ARE AIM POINTS THESE ARE NOT ACTUAL CONTACT POINTS)
(THESE ARE AIM POINTS THESE ARE NOT ACTUAL CONTACT POINTS)
(THESE ARE AIM POINTS THESE ARE NOT ACTUAL CONTACT POINTS)
(THESE ARE AIM POINTS THESE ARE NOT ACTUAL CONTACT POINTS)
(THESE ARE AIM POINTS THESE ARE NOT ACTUAL CONTACT POINTS)
(THESE ARE AIM POINTS THESE ARE NOT ACTUAL CONTACT POINTS)

The nice thing about this system is you can look at your "actual contact point" first from a direct line to the pocket, then when you make your move to behind the CB you will see the your aim point will fall into one of the three "AIM POINTS" above...

NOTE: on more extreme angles than you listed above I would go with the "shis kebob" system.....but you will need to call HAl or go see Fred at the US Open for that...

However...since you being so thick headed about the whole thing....it looks like you may have just "burned your plank" ....so to speak.....

You should have just called Hal....

Weather anyone uses the system or not...I really don't care...It's just one system that does the same thing as every other system....

 

[CaptainJR]

Drivermaker, I'm not as hard headed about aiming as you think I am. I make probably 80 percent of my shots by feel. Feel isn't something that you can teach so I don't mention it much but I did mention it in the last post when talking about good players.
These types of threads are people asking how you should aim. You seem to be forgetting one LITTLE detail. You are the one that is in the minority here. At a minimum 90 percent of the pool instructors use the ghost ball (based on contact points) system to teach a person how to pocket a ball. They do that because they think it is the best way to learn. I'm not the one saying I'm right and everyone else is wrong here, you are.

Probably the best way to pocket a ball is by feel, but you can't teach that. Instructors teach the ghost ball and contact points because that is the best way to get someone working toward making the ball by feel.

Who do you think you are anyway!

 

[Koop]

At a minimum 90 percent of the pool instructors use the ghost ball (based on contact points) system to teach a person how to pocket a ball. They do that because they think it is the best way to learn. I'm not the one saying I'm right and everyone else is wrong here, you are.

Probably the best way to pocket a ball is by feel, but you can't teach that. Instructors teach the ghost ball and contact points because that is the best way to get someone working toward making the ball by feel.

Hey Captain,

I agree that feel is used an awful lot but I also think the reason most instructors teach ghost ball is because it is all they know.
I haven't learned Hal's system yet but I will be soon (Looking forward to it Hal).
I also know from players in my area that Joe Tuckers system seems to work well.

Regards,
Koop

 

[CaptainJR]

Hey Captain,

I agree that feel is used an awful lot but I also think the reason most instructors teach ghost ball is because it is all they know.
I haven't learned Hal's system yet but I will be soon (Looking forward to it Hal).
I also know from players in my area that Joe Tuckers system seems to work well.

Regards,
Koop

Come on Koop, your assuming that if all these instructors that have been teaching pool for years, if shown Hal's system they would think 'this is the best thing since sliced bread. You just can't make that assumption any more than I can assume they wouldn't. I'm saying I don't think they would. Your saying you think they would. You think all these teachers haven't been exposed to other ways to aim? I doubt that. People have been playing pool for hundreds of years, I doubt that Hal is the first to think of his way. He may be the first to teach it or document it, but I doubt that he is the first to use or think about it. Could be though, maybe.

 

[drivermaker]

Drivermaker, I'm not as hard headed about aiming as you think I am. I make probably 80 percent of my shots by feel. Feel isn't something that you can teach so I don't mention it much but I did mention it in the last post when talking about good players.

Yes, you're as hard headed as I think you are. BRKNRUN said exactly the same thing. You are a rock headed old coot.

In all of the months you've posted on here about aiming, it's been all about contact point with you. NOW, it's feel. (something you can't teach) Yeh...right!! Change those gears real fast before you show how much stupider you can get. It's hard to debate feel, right?

I also like how you throw something in about what "good players" do and you lump yourself into that category. LMAO When you played the piano for entertainment...did you also have a comedy routine going in-between songs? Maybe some light banter to juice it up? You're a funny guy!

No doofus....aiming is, and always will be a VISUAL part of the game. You have to use your EYES. FEEL is for the stroke...you feel with your hands and fingers and they do what the eyes tell you to do. You DON'T FEEL AIMING!
You SEE AIMING. Now if you're blind...you might have to FEEL your way around the balls to figure out what to do...that's about it. There are different ways to visualize shot setup AND coordinate the stroke to minimize deflection, apply english, and maximize performance. That's what this is about, NOT just locating a spot on the friggin' OB or CB. WHIRRRRRrrrrrrr
That just went zinging over your rock head like all the rest of it

You're right...I am in the minority when it comes to what instructors teach. But contact point is easy to teach and that's the way it's been done for decades. Doesn't mean it's the most effective way to do things though OR to make balls.

 

[Fred Agnir]

Come on Koop, your assuming that if all these instructors that have been teaching pool for years, if shown Hal's system they would think 'this is the best thing since sliced bread. You just can't make that assumption any more than I can assume they wouldn't. .

Aren't you already proven incorrect on this? Randy Goettlicher's school was introduced to the Hal Houle systems and they immediately put it into their curriculum. They call it SAM for Supplemental Aiming System. Scott Lee got an intro to it, and he has endorsed it fully. Several BCA instructors on this forum have weighed in their positive thoughts on the subject.


So yes, I can wholeheartedly assume that these instructors who have been instructing for years, if showh Hal's system, they would think very positive about it, and immediately add it to their teachings. Haven't you been paying attention to it???

Fred

 

[Cane]

You're right...I am in the minority when it comes to what instructors teach.

Well, maybe, maybe not. I know a lot of instructors that have changed their ways as of late. At least 2 of the VERY few BCA Master Academies have abandoned GB and Contact Point and started teaching Hal's systems or very close variations.

I started playing when I was 8 years old. By the time I was 18, I was "teaching" people how to play pool... thought I was hot stuff back then! LOL Wish my young body had known what my old brain does now! I quit playing altogether in 1988 (personal problems... divorces, loss of houses and cars, etc.), and started again in 2002. When I started again, I was a Contact Point fanatic... and I still shot pretty damn good pool. Not great, but pretty damn good. I began to infomally teach or "help" other players, especially on aiming, as I was known as quite the shotmaker. Well, it wasn't long before I was introduced to a whole new kind of aiming... by a BCA Master Instructor. It didn't take me long after that to search the net and find Hal's email address and ask if I could call him. Well, he called me instead. What I've learned since is amazing.

I'm rambling... whole point of this is... I personally know and consider myself friends with 9 other BCA Instructors, ranging from Certified to Master. All 9 of those have abandoned teaching Ghost Ball or Contact Point to Contact Point and are either teaching one of Hal's systems or their interpretation of one of Hal's systems.

YOU MAY NOT BE IN THE MINORITY MUCH LONGER!!!

Later,
Bob

 

[Koop]

Come on Koop, your assuming that if all these instructors that have been teaching pool for years, if shown Hal's system they would think 'this is the best thing since sliced bread. You just can't make that assumption any more than I can assume they wouldn't. I'm saying I don't think they would. Your saying you think they would. You think all these teachers haven't been exposed to other ways to aim? I doubt that. People have been playing pool for hundreds of years, I doubt that Hal is the first to think of his way. He may be the first to teach it or document it, but I doubt that he is the first to use or think about it. Could be though, maybe.

Captain,

Fred already answered this for me but it seems to me that the more these instructors are taught the system, the more they are implementing it as part of their teachings.
So in short, I believe I can make that assumption based on the feedback from numerous instructors who are now endorsing and teaching Hal's system and moving away from the ghost ball thing.

Respectfully,
Koop

 

[drivermaker]

YOU MAY NOT BE IN THE MINORITY MUCH LONGER!!!

Later,
Bob

Damn it!! I kinda like being in the minority on a number of things. It's similar to the overweight epidemic in this country. The vast majority are either overweight or obese. THAT surely doesn't make them right and the minority wrong. Fact is, rather than be a part of the unfit majority...we all have a choice to be a part of the FIT minority. Which is better in the long run?

Now a lot more players are going to become better shooters....boooooo!!! Please don't teach it....please don't teach it....please don't teach it......

 

[CaptainJR]

A while back there was a link to an article that ask several pro how they aim. I think that there were three categories. The ones that wouldn't tell. The ones that mention ghost ball or contact point. And the ones that said by feel. I could have used the wrong word there, maybe it was by instinct or by having made the shot so many times before or something like that. You new what I was talking about unless you have a complete void between those ears of yours.

I had talked about good players and I had talked about great players. I would guess there is another group above that called something like phenomenal players.(Archer, Earl, etc.) Do I consider myself in the good player category? Yes. Am I a great player. No. Do I know more about the game than I can do about it? As you indicated, I'm an old coot. So Yes.

There is one thing for certain as I mentioned above. At least for now I'm in the majority on this point. Your bad mouthing and babbling isn't going to change that.

 

[drivermaker]

Do I know more about the game than I can do about it?

There is one thing for certain as I mentioned above. At least for now I'm in the majority on this point. Your bad mouthing and babbling isn't going to change that.

You don't even know what there is to know or the first thing about this method of aiming. NOTHING...you're clueless.

I have no idea what you're in any more. Contact point....feel....instinct..... contact point...horizons...feel....instinct....

What about HORIZONS...is that a majority area of agreement. LMAO I've really never heard about that until you introduced it with your infinite wisdom, or should I say genius imagination. You might feel safe and secure by saying that you're in a majority, but you still don't have an idea of what's going on outside of it and remain a rock headed old coot doofus.

You've been waffling...back pedaling....moon walking....crawfishing...side stepping...going around in circles...vascillating...pissing and moaning....
hell, who knows what you're going to think up next.

 

[DaveK]

You've been waffling...back pedaling....moon walking....crawfishing...side stepping...going around in circles...vascillating...pissing and moaning....
hell, who knows what you're going to think up next.

I dunno about others around here, but yous twos is being pretty entertaining. I have no idea who is in the majority, not having done any due diligence (and I doubt that anyone really has, so who's to know really). I do know that I am getting to the point where a call to Mr. Houle is in my near future, and this thread is largely to blame. All I can say is 'thanks'. And if Drivermaker is accurate in his description, the Cap' could be a pretty good backup dancer for some rapper.

Dave

 

[CaptainJR]

I'll tell you folks what I think. I've been waiting. There have been 2000 reads on this thread. I was going to complain that none of the people out there that agree with me had the balls to come in hear and back me up on this. They just sat on there asses and got entertained by me being in this thread getting beat up by a half dozen people.

Changed my mind about that. That just couldn't be the case. So, I must be wrong. I mean that. Sorry to have bothered you all. Take care and good luck.