What do you guys think of my cue?

[classiccues]

I will tell you the same thing I told Sean, please don't attempt to explain me or speak for me. You read and read yet never once understand. It's not up to ME Joe, it's not up to YOU. Ask the people you're stealing from. Come on Joe with all those cue makers you must know as equal partner in Classiccues/PTM (LOL) you must know tons of cuemakers, can't you find any who have been ripped off to tell us all they don't mind when it happens. Also please stop trying to invent a list of so called "heros" that I have. Where did you come up with the list? You seem to know so much about me and this made up list how bout you share it with me. You are a clown Joe, you'll always be a clown and you have no clue. 3 hi and 3 low points doesn't mean the cue is a knockoff, if that were the case then nobody would ever be able to use points again, ever. I know it helps your case to try and make me sound this extreem but as I've explained a hundred times it's not the case. The thing I find funny is that rather then back up your money driven side of the argument you would rather try to lie and blur my side, don't attack me Joe (with lies) just try to defend your side, and it would be really easy to do, just have the people you rip[ off ok your behavior. I have no problem telling anyone to their face my point of view, if you have the balls you find me, bring this so called knockoff with you and we can walk right up to ANY cuemaker at VF and I will talk to them in front of you. Then and only then will you get it. Cya at VF buddy.

Jim <---NOT SHY

Jim,
Why do you keep insinuating about my relationship with Mark on every post? I asked you many times to show proof I have said I was equal partners everytime you bring it up, and everytime you stick your foot in your mouth.

Your hero list is easy. You reference it everytime you try to say how great or creative these guys are. And everytime you say it, we find one of them ripped a cue design from someone and everytime we catch it, you ignore it, or make up some lame excuse to why it was done. Thomas and arguement with Jerry, what's next, you going to try and bail out McWorter by saying he had a jumbo slurpee and must have had brain freeze?

Now on the McWorter I referenced, its more than 6 hi and 6 lo, there is the butt sleeve with the primary woods seperated by a veneer band, another South West trademark. That cue is as much a SW knockoff as ANY Phillipi, DZ, or any other cue you have unsucessfully tried to jam your stop cue design theft bull crap on. Nice trying to simplify the cue as just 6 hi and 6 low, when you know damn well if that was a Phillippi you'd be crying here like a 5 year old kid who just dropped his lollipop.

I don't need to back up my side of the arguement. People like a design and borrow elements of the design all the time. You want to debate its moral fiber, go ahead, thats why we are here.

Joe

 

[classiccues]

So instead of taking my post of course why not start your own post Jimbo?,i am not trying to be a jerk,but i think it would better serve the purpose and it could be debated there.If i could delete this post i would because its not fair to me or Greg Kucharski whom i was paying tribute to his work.I never said i wanted a knockoff so i dont know how this post turned into cue design theft,i just said i wanted a SW style,meaning wood to wood and 3 high and 3 low points,the rings and butt design would be left up to Greg,so then again i dont know how or why this post got off track but its not cool.

Lenny,
The post got off track because you said you wanted a South West STYLE cue and the cue design Columbo ranted you should buy a South West instead of having Greg build you your idea cue.

Joe

 

[lord_shar]

Lenny,
The post got off track because you said you wanted a South West STYLE cue and the cue design Columbo ranted you should buy a South West instead of having Greg build you your idea cue.

Joe

I believe the key word is "style" vs. "replica" or "knock-off." A similar styled cue should have some elements of the base prototype plus several cue-maker-specific features / markers that distinguishes it from any other cue. Otherwise, it's just another immiation, and I'd imagine that most cue respectable makers would hate being stigmatized with such a cue.

 

[cueaddicts]

It's funny that since you disagree with my point of view you want to make me seem classless.....
Jim

Jim,

There is nothing in the world I can do (or care to do) to make you seem more classless. Your comment about "me and Joe being butt buddies" has showed us that you do fine showing your classlessness all by yourself. And I see that now you have asked for a cuemaker's opinion, Sherm has jumped in, said pretty much exactly how I feel on the matter, and told you that you needed to chill out. Pretty funny.....

BTW, I don't disagree with your view when it comes to exact copies of cues, but I disagree with you methods, especially belittling people and their cues when they are not exact copies of anything. It's just funny (actually pathetic) to see how worked up you get over it and of Joe and Mark's PTM/classiccues arrangement.

Sean

 

[JimBo]

Well, for the most part I agree with your argument about cue design theft, but I can site an instance where a design concept was copied and the cuemaker gave his blessings. I'm refering to the "drop shadow" technique that Edwin "Bandito" Reyes uses. When I first saw this concept in a cue I was really impressed with the simplicity and elegance of this type of inlay. So much so that I asked permission from my friend, Edwin, to use this concept in some of my cues. He was very gracious in allowing me to do so and was, I believe, honored that I asked him first! I use it sparringly and always give homage to Ed when I show someone a cue with this concept. And frankly, a lot of the old Bushka and Boti designs have become almost public domain, they've been done so much. I don't have a problem with making a cue that's inspired by one of the dead masters, as long as it's represented fairly. And "Southwest Style" has become a common term. It doesn't necessarily mean that the cue is a copy of a Southwest. At least to me, it represents a linen phenolic, wood-to-wood jointed cue, often with 6 points. It just kinda groups it differently than say a "Szamboti" style cue, with a piloted steel joint, usually 4 veneered points, ebony into maple!

Chill out Jimbo! lol, I don't think he's looking to counterfeit a SW!

just more hot air!

Sherm


just more hot air!

Sherm

Thanks for speaking up Sherm, it's good to see a CUE MAKER chime in, it's also good to see that you are a stand up guy and asked for permission to use a technique, that takes my argument to the next level, many hear must think you're a fool for doing something that most obviously be fine by them. Have you ever had a design stolen and if so how would you feel about it, specially if it was 1 of a kind and unique to you?

Jim

 

[JimBo]

Then in that case, we're on the same page.

The problem isn't your message -- it's how you articulate it without properly distinguishing between similar adapted styles vs. blatant forgeries. The angry tone further drowns out your premise and alienates many readers here. If your goal is to sell your point, then a little less hostility goes a long way. Otherwise, it just creates a potential flame-fest.

I'm not angry at all, I'm just getting my opinion out there and also bringing awareness to a problem, you'll find that the only people who want to argue are those trying to sell cues. Anyone with a brain could easily see that I have nothing at all to gain from my opinion, there is no reason for me to post what I do other then to bring it into the fore front. Yet it's painfully obvious when you see the people on the other side, they either work for cue dealers or they have had copies made or bought copies and they want to defend their behavior. Any time a cue maker or designer speaks up they see the point and tend to be more on my side of the topic. As far as Flames go I think you are way to thin skinned and your wanting more censorship scares me, if this type of debate truly bothers you why read it? Is there a person forcing you to open this thread every few hours?

Side Note: As you've previously mentioned, my cue is not an exact copy of any previous Gus, though it does borrow some style elements. It was actually modeled after a Bill Schick, and yes, Andy Gilbert obtained Bill's permission before making my cue. However, I also asked Andy to incorporate a few unique features, thereby making a 1-of-a-kind.

Why would Andy ask permission? I mean if there really is nothing wrong with it, why in the world would he even think to ask? The reason is it is wrong, he as an artist and cuemaker knows and he did the right thing. Of course once again the people who matter (the ones being stolen from) seem to get my point, yet a bunch of wanna be cue dealers and a few broke buyers think that they are the end all and that they must be right since it's been donbe so much.



We do see how the thread was detoured, and there are better ways to raise a legitemate concern.

It's a news group about pool in a cue section, this is a very important cue issue, there is no hijack as far as I'm concerned, Greg has not been brought up or dragged through the mud, the thread has evolved and there has been some good debate.

But again what I think we can take from your post is that Andy asked permission.

Jim

 

[JimBo]

So instead of taking my post of course why not start your own post Jimbo?,

I shouldn't bother answering again, but I will. Your post would have been 13 posts at the most and died a normal "what do you think of my cue" death. I didn't drag Greg down and if anything it's keeping his name in the spotlight, I hope it helps him with advertisment down the line, Greg is a local guy (near me) and a friend. I would start a new thread but I am answering posts directed at me in this one, I know you're new and have no clue that when I ignore someone they somehow think I didn't have an answer to their post and that they somehow won cause I didn't respond.

i am not trying to be a jerk,

me either

but i think it would better serve the purpose and it could be debated there.

I disagree, but again why are you still reading if you are not interested and why the hell are you still posting?

If i could delete this post i would because its not fair to me or Greg Kucharski whom i was paying tribute to his work.

Again you are way off base and overreacting, how would this in any way hurt Greg? As I already said it keeps his name in the spotlight and he's getting much more exsposuer then your original intent. Why you somehow feel that the way this post evolved has negativly impacted you or him is beyond me. If any thing I hope you of all people have learned something here.

I never said i wanted a knockoff so i dont know how this post turned into cue design theft,i just said i wanted a SW style,meaning wood to wood and 3 high and 3 low points,the rings and butt design would be left up to Greg,so then again i dont know how or why this post got off track but its not cool.

It happens to be very cool, as you can see from the number of views and the number of posts your post has gotten people talking, and maybe from these talks some will have a better understanding of Design theft, as anyone who can read can see many people think it's an excepted behavior. From this thread we have learned that 2 very good cue makers thing that if you want to barrow (I say that cause that's what it is when you ask) a design you should ask first.

I think many cuemakers and thats the majority 99% do tend to make cues that are styled like many of the masters and the popular cuemakers of today,

I think you are uninformed

i dont think its right but it gives people the chance to buy cues that are the style that they like for a fair price that is affordable to them,

Why should someone's hard work come cheap? I can tell you why because stealing is much easier then being original and when you don't have to spend time designing you can make more cues and sell them cheaper. Again SKINS comes to mind, to pay this guy to design a cue costs money his time is money, that is why a cue from him would be more money then the guy who copies his work. Get it yet? Let me break it down into $$$ for you, If you pay Skins $100 an hour to design a cue and it takes him 20 hours that's $2,000, now if the cue is a 1 of a kind that $2,000 needs to be added in to the cue price, if they make 2 cues with it it would be $1,000 for each, if it's 20 cues $100 each. But when a guy just steals his work he can make the cue for 2K less, get my point?

not everyone can afford the 20 thousand dollar Bushka or Szamboti,so they buy something from Richard Black or many of the other current top cuemakers who produce near copies of the masters work,you could even take a step lower and buy a mass produced Adams for $500 if you like the style,

I hate to keep using SKINS here, but since he chimes in and has commented I will, if you like his designs why shouldn't he benifit from that? Why should his work (the work you like) go unrewarded?

they have the rights literally to copy because Balabushka was bought and sold as you know long ago,so if anyone has a problem then it should be Adams because they bought the name.

They bought the name Balabushka, they didn't buy any rights to any cue designs and if you knew anything you'd know the cues are not really copies, they just use the name and then creeps try to rip people off with them on e-bay. That aside if someone buys the rights they aren't stealing, they are paying for it and it's legal, are you reading this thread or not?

As for me jumping on board with any of these guys,im no follower,i just think that stylizing your cue after soemone elses is not worng but a carbon copy,i mean exact copy in every detail is,

Gee that doesn't seem to be what you said in the thread when you were trying to insult me personally. Since you seem to agree with me and you (unlike me) seem to have the gray area figured, please tell me where your line is on the SW design?

i think that is agreed by most people on here,you are the one who attacked my first post because i said i wanted a SW "style" cue,am i wrong for that

Attacked you?? Please show me where the attack took place, all I said was I hope YOU don't ask him to make a copy, in what country would that be considered an attack?

i dont think thats cue design theft,im just giving people an idea of what the next cue i want is going to look like, you came at that the wrong way thinking i wanted a knockoff.

No I looked at it as a way to try to educate you before you did exactly what I knew (from other posts) that you were going to do, not an attack just a bit of education for a guy who before my post never thought doing it was wrong, at least now when you do exactly what you were going to in the first place you won't be able to say "I didn't know" or "I never thought of that"

I think some cuemakers make simialar cues to see if they can make the same magical cue,

Looks and design have nothing to do with this, please don't try some crazy spin.

see if the cue looks as good or better then the original design,i know if i made cues i would try my hand at a SW or Bushka style just to see if i can make something just as nice.

That's just dumb, it was also TW's excuse and I told him it was dumb and wrong by the way. Even though he may or may not be on Joe's make believe list that he keeps ignoring when asked to provide.

Well enough of this post,perhaps we might run into eachother at Valley Forge

I'm easy to find, you can't miss me.

and we can go look at all the knockoffs that 9 out of 10 cuemakers will have there,you will spend the entire time there telling all these guys where to go then,but i think its just easier to say screw it and let the cuemakers themselves tell the guy off who is ripping them off,do you think they care if Joe or Jimbo Schmo comes up and complains about there stealing?,i dont think so my friend.

The funny thing is 3 people who design cues chimed in and all sided with me, SKINS said he thinks it's wrong and threatened to sue someone till they stopped and Sherm and Andy Gilbert both asked permission before stealing something, so please once again tell me how you don't think they care? You see you have your mind set, you sided with Joe early on and you haven't learned one thing here, it's very sad. Also my last name is not Schmo, it's Brennan.

Jim

 

[JimBo]

Jim,
Why do you keep insinuating about my relationship with Mark on every post? I asked you many times to show proof I have said I was equal partners everytime you bring it up, and everytime you stick your foot in your mouth.

I only bring up Mark because you guys must be partners, I mean in all your posts it's US and WE, your name is Classiccues, you guys must be partners, why would you get upset with me bringing him up? After all you spoeak for the two of you, I'm sure you know when I say Mark I mean you:-D

Your hero list is easy. You reference it everytime you try to say how great or creative these guys are. And everytime you say it, we find one of them ripped a cue design from someone and everytime we catch it, you ignore it, or make up some lame excuse to why it was done. Thomas and arguement with Jerry, what's next, you going to try and bail out McWorter by saying he had a jumbo slurpee and must have had brain freeze?

I don't make excuses, I just relaid a story, the list is only in your head, and that's why I find it funny that you can't write it down for us all. I know it's a waste of time but I'm going to say it one more time for your benifit, read slow Joe. It's wrong NO MATTER who does it, I would never defend anyone who does it, I have never defended Thomas for knocking off Jerry and I won't defend Jerry even though I have no idea what cue you're talking about. Although what if Jerry M asked Jerry F if he could do it? I mean in my book that makes it fine, when you ask you aren't stealing and as we've learned many people do have the state of mind to ask, that must mean something right Joe? I mean why do YOU think they would ask? I mean if there is no reason since it's ok to steal, why do you think these guys ask????

Now on the McWorter I referenced, its more than 6 hi and 6 lo, there is the butt sleeve with the primary woods seperated by a veneer band, another South West trademark. That cue is as much a SW knockoff as ANY Phillipi, DZ, or any other cue you have unsucessfully tried to jam your stop cue design theft bull crap on. Nice trying to simplify the cue as just 6 hi and 6 low, when you know damn well if that was a Phillippi you'd be crying here like a 5 year old kid who just dropped his lollipop.

Crying Joe?? Come on you overreact and lie as always. Why would I cry Joe? What do I have to gain or lose? Come on Joe please just try to us a touch of comon sense.

I don't need to back up my side of the arguement. People like a design and borrow elements of the design all the time. You want to debate its moral fiber, go ahead, thats why we are here.

Joe

If it were why we were here you'd have to mention it, instead you lie and make up imaginary lists. I'll sit back and wait for you to explain how stealing is ok (morally of course) or you can post the imaginary list that I have, I have a bad feeling we won't see either of those posts LOL

Jim

 

[JimBo]

Lenny,
The post got off track because you said you wanted a South West STYLE cue and the cue design Columbo ranted you should buy a South West instead of having Greg build you your idea cue.

Joe

What's one more lie from you?

Jim

 

[JimBo]

Jim,

There is nothing in the world I can do (or care to do) to make you seem more classless. Your comment about "me and Joe being butt buddies" has showed us that you do fine showing your classlessness all by yourself. And I see that now you have asked for a cuemaker's opinion, Sherm has jumped in, said pretty much exactly how I feel on the matter, and told you that you needed to chill out. Pretty funny.....

What's funny is that Sherm made my point 100x over, you see he asked for permission to use an element, he didn't steal a design or even an inlay, just a technique that he uses on his own designs. The reason he did this was because he realized that it took some thought and effort and originality on Edwin's part. You see this one thing goes against every thing you believe because it's so far from an exact copy, hell it's 180* from that. Yet he asked first, he didn't steal it, yet you missed that. Also it's funny how you interpreted him telling me to Chill, like he somehow was on your side, the same way you read into me being mad, you are just way off base.
BTW, I don't disagree with your view when it comes to exact copies of cues, but I disagree with you methods, especially belittling people and their cues when they are not exact copies of anything. It's just funny (actually pathetic) to see how worked up you get over it and of Joe and Mark's PTM/classiccues arrangement.

Sean

Please show me where I belittled anyone's cue (we both know this won't happen) What's funny and pathetic? The way I belittle people's cues? Again please show where I did this, please I beg. Again I don't get worked up over Joe and Mark, I just get amused when Joe tries to betray himself as something he isn't. I'm sure I could comment about your boss, I just don't know as much LOL. What I find funny is how people will pretty musch do anything to become something they aren't on the internet and how easy people are to buy into some words on a screen. I guess threw our words on the screen we are all rich, good looking and great pool players. By the way did I mention I'm skinny and I know the president. ;-)

Jim

 

[Fast Lenny]

To be honest with you Jimbo, i wouldnt care if my thread only had 13 post or not,it makes no difference,but atleast it would be 13 post on what the topic was,not 50 on stuff i dont give a shi* about.I said SW style and you were crying theft,big deal,i dont really care,i will do as i please and have a cue made the way i want,it wont be a knockoff,it wont be a carbon copy,i dont think Greg would do that anyway.I was upset that my post was hijacked,but oh well and since it was my origianl post that was why i have been replying,you were trying to "educate" me on something i already know,its wrong in my eyes but do i care as much as you?,no,not even a little bit,i am not a cuemaker so i dont think it hits home.I dont think your a bad guy and im sure you dont care whether i do either,but you jump to conclusions,you read to deep into stuff,where did this turn into cue design theft?,all because i said SW style,well enough of this,you think i am some newbie on this site who doesnt know anything and am clueless,i have watched this forum for over a year,just started posting 4 months ago and love the game and custom cues,lets just leave it at that,but for some reason i dont think you will,you have to always have the last word,childish IMHO,when i have my cue made and its finished then i will post pics then you can cry theft or just say nice cue as you should have about this post and my cue now.As for the whole Adams copy thing,here is your link to all the copied Rambow,Paradise and Bushkas,so i guess im ignorant and uninformed, http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/cues/hall_of_fame/hall_of_fame_series_pg2.htm ,it has all these remakes of cues made for Crane and Balsis,these are exact copies in every detail,so thats not theft?

Lenny

 

[classiccues]

What's one more lie from you?

Jim

Really?

Jim: Post 2: If you want a SW buy a SW, if you like Greg's work then have him make a cue, don't ask him to make you a knockoff.

Jim

Looks like either you lie like a dog, or you have no short term memory.

Joe

 

[classiccues]

The funny thing is 3 people who design cues chimed in and all sided with me, SKINS said he thinks it's wrong and threatened to sue someone till they stopped and Sherm and Andy Gilbert both asked permission before stealing something, so please once again tell me how you don't think they care? You see you have your mind set, you sided with Joe early on and you haven't learned one thing here, it's very sad. Also my last name is not Schmo, it's Brennan.

Jim

Did Andy Gilbert chime in? I must have missed it. Oh.. I get it.. another lie.

Joe

 

[Cornerman]

your right jim let'em all have it. hey i hope Joseys on that "notice from across the room" list.

LOL!!! I saw a cue from a few feet and commented that it was Josey... but it was a Joey (Gold), not a Josey. I assumed that you had designed it, though. So, maybe we can spot a Skins design from across the room.

Fred

 

[classiccues]

Please show me where I belittled anyone's cue (we both know this won't happen) What's funny and pathetic? The way I belittle people's cues? Again please show where I did this, please I beg. Again I don't get worked up over Joe and Mark, I just get amused when Joe tries to betray himself as something he isn't. I'm sure I could comment about your boss, I just don't know as much LOL. What I find funny is how people will pretty musch do anything to become something they aren't on the internet and how easy people are to buy into some words on a screen. I guess threw our words on the screen we are all rich, good looking and great pool players. By the way did I mention I'm skinny and I know the president. ;-)

Jim

I will ask you one time point blank.. when or what do I do that betrays myself as something I am not? Be specific and prove it to the contrary. If not, do yourself a favor and shut up. I am not sitting here telling everyone you haven't had a girlfriend in 20 years and yet at every pool / trade exhibit your bunking with the same GUY.

Joe

Joe

 

[ridewiththewind]

Lenny,

I really like your cue from Greg. I like the woods used, and I think it has a nice, balanced design element to it. Quite lovely. I hope you enjoy it for a long time to come.

Lisa

 

[classiccues]

Jim: I only bring up Mark because you guys must be partners, I mean in all your posts it's US and WE, your name is Classiccues, you guys must be partners, why would you get upset with me bringing him up? After all you spoeak for the two of you, I'm sure you know when I say Mark I mean you:-D

That’s right, sometimes it’s us, me, we depends upon the circumstance. We both contribute cues to the website, so that’s a we, we will both be at the show so it’s a we, Mark has a collection so that’s a him, I own some cues and that’s me, we are partners on some cues and that’s a we or us. So I ask you again, show me where I have ever stated anything but this. I am waiting for the 100th time.

Jim: I don't make excuses, I just relaid a story, the list is only in your head, and that's why I find it funny that you can't write it down for us all. I know it's a waste of time but I'm going to say it one more time for your benifit, read slow Joe. It's wrong NO MATTER who does it, I would never defend anyone who does it, I have never defended Thomas for knocking off Jerry and I won't defend Jerry even though I have no idea what cue you're talking about. Although what if Jerry M asked Jerry F if he could do it? I mean in my book that makes it fine, when you ask you aren't stealing and as we've learned many people do have the state of mind to ask, that must mean something right Joe? I mean why do YOU think they would ask? I mean if there is no reason since it's ok to steal, why do you think these guys ask????

We are all still waiting for to go after certain cuemakers and single them out. The best you do when its one of your “friends”, “heros” or whatever is say exactly this. “It’s wrong no matter who does it”, but yet when DZ or Phillippi or some cuemaker you never have to face, or want to face, does it you have no problem singling them out. Do you know if Jerry asked Jerry? If you don’t, its irrelevant. As far as your list, you have one here in this thread and have posted it many times in reference to all these “creative, original” minds that would never copy a cue design. (yeah right) So there is no need for me to post it.

Jim: Crying Joe?? Come on you overreact and lie as always. Why would I cry Joe? What do I have to gain or lose? Come on Joe please just try to us a touch of comon sense.

You cry every time you get to a see a cue made in the style of someone who didn’t invent the style. Your motive is simple, you think everytime you complain and front this “cue design issue” that all the cuemakers that might believe the same thing will give you a break when you buy a cue. Your motive seems to also be financially backed.

Joe

 

[skins]

LOL!!! I saw a cue from a few feet and commented that it was Josey... but it was a Joey (Gold), not a Josey. I assumed that you had designed it, though. So, maybe we can spot a Skins design from across the room.

Fred

what you see in a Cognoscenti cue is exactly that, a Cognoscenti cue. believe it or not you can tell the difference rather easily and that's the beauty of it. you just have to know the elements to look for. such as the difference in the ring work and inlay. joes trademark is his use of silver in his ringwork and to inlay silver in the cues themselves. walk into a pool hall and you can tell the difference just by looking for the "shine" that come off his cues from the silver. when i started working with keith josey i purposely omitted the use of silver, the way he incorporates it, out of respect for joe. if i would have used the element that took him so long to "make his own" i would have been stealing and i'm not about that. i would never do that to a man who has taught me so much. remember just because one element of thought by one is used in another doesn't mean that the end result of the "total" design is the result of the first persons idea.

 

[Cornerman]

I won't defend Jerry even though I have no idea what cue you're talking about. Although what if Jerry M asked Jerry F if he could do it? I mean in my book that makes it fine, when you ask you aren't stealing and as we've learned many people do have the state of mind to ask, that must mean something right Joe?

Has Jerry McWorter made cues that look like South Wests? I know his early works were 3 hi-3low, but the ones I've seen wouldn't be confused with any South Wests.

If he's made a few that do look just like a South West, I wouldn't think he'd be very proud of them. Nor do I think he'd make one today. He's built such a name for himself and his unique design style.

To put Jerry's name into the "ripping off South West design" group is, IMO, far off base when compared to some cuemakers out there that really make cues that are indistiguishable from a South West.

Fred

 

[classiccues]

Has Jerry McWorter made cues that look like South Wests? I know his early works were 3 hi-3low, but the ones I've seen wouldn't be confused with any South Wests.

If he's made a few that do look just like a South West, I wouldn't think he'd be very proud of them. Nor do I think he'd make one today. He's built such a name for himself and his unique design style.

To put Jerry's name into the "ripping off South West design" group is, IMO, far off base when compared to some cuemakers out there that really make cues that are indistiguishable from a South West.

Fred

Fred,
Here..
http://cgi.ebay.com/McWorter-Custom-Cue-Serial-Number-0943_W0QQitemZ7215644521QQcategoryZ21212QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This is one of two 6 point, 3 hi, 3 lo McWorters that have been on ebay this week. They both have the primary woods seperated by a veneer ring in the butt sleeve, another SW trademark. Now, if the defense is going to be he used silver trim rings, then it all horse sh**. Because in all Jim's examples of Phillipi and other cues, changing the rings was NOT good enough to seperate the designs. Since the 6 point cue 3 hi and 3 low, with the veneered back end is commonly acknowledged as a South West innovation, than this cue is without defense, a copy.

Joe