What Do You Hate To See In A Cue?

[skins]

well i would like to see the same if he spent the same time without cnc.

im sure not only the output would be different but also the looks.

oh and PROFIT.

to make these types of cues without cnc would be on the verge of impossible and would have to stay a bit more traditional and with the likes of you, barry, pete, dennis, joel, richard, ernie, laurie, bill and bill, paul, bob and many others already getting the "PROFIT" from the more traditional kind of cue i guess where we are is better for the family. if by the profit comment you're saying that keith makes allot of money from the use of the cnc, i'll bet he makes less than all stated before and works just as hard if not harder. anyway such is life.

 

[merylane]

to make these types of cues without cnc would be on the verge of impossible and would have to stay a bit more traditional and with the likes of you, barry, pete, dennis, joel, richard, ernie, laurie, bill and bill, paul, bob and many others already getting the "PROFIT" from the more traditional kind of cue i guess where we are is better for the family. if by the profit comment you're saying that keith makes allot of money from the use of the cnc, i'll bet he makes less than all stated before and works just as hard if not harder. anyway such is life.

so are you saying cnc makes him less profitable?

 

[buddha162]

[

I don't believe that's what I said, I happen to own a cue from Skip and don't consider myself cheap. I did say when people take designs from other makers and have different cuemakers do them it's often because of price or wait time or availability.

Jim

It's hard work to include quotes and replies line by line...lol.

1.) Barry Szamboti: I never had an opinion on his cues until I went to iconcue's site and saw the atrocious inlay work displayed under uber-clear photos (great job iconcue, btw). Those gluelines are simply outrageous, and I urge anyone curious enough to check them out.

2.) We certainly agree with choosing a cuemaker that suits your personal style, ie butterfly cues from Paul and not Skip, hardwood veneered cues from Skip and not Paul.

The problem comes when someone wants a cue with Bushka or Szamboti elements. For one, they're both in the clearing at the end of the path...but it's more than that. I think many people who own and support Skip's cuemaking really feels that there is none better out there in terms of construction and execution. So even if Gus and George are around, I probably would still go to Skip for a "classic" cue.

However, I would never have Skip make an exact copy of anything. But I wouldn't hesitate to comission a cue from Skip in the traditional style, over any other maker alive (or dead), and the reason has nothing to do with price tags.

-Roger

PS. Would you consider the burl pointed cues Mottey builds, with the BLUE veneers his own "design"? I'm just wondering, I think this will help me understand your parameters of design-theft. My personal opinion is Yes, if I see a burl pointed cue with blue veneers made by anyone else my reaction will probably be Someone ripped off Mottey...but the intensity of that reaction will be more muted than yours, lol.

 

[skins]

so are you saying cnc makes him less profitable?

i'm saying the man's a cue maker. he builds the kind of cues he wants. he makes a life for his family. i guess would like to determine his own fate without scrutiny from other makers (comment not intended for you). he seems to be doing ok and for now i think that sits fine for him but to be sure you would have to ask him. i'm just happy to do what i do for him to help in any way and thats it.

 

[merylane]

i'm saying the man's a cue maker. he builds the kind of cues he wants. he makes a life for his family. i guess would like to determine his own fate without scrutiny from other makers (comment not intended for you). he seems to be doing ok and for now i think that sits fine for him but to be sure you would have to ask him. i'm just happy to do what i do for him to help in any way and thats it.

sorry didnt mean anything bad, i think what you do is not only fine but also great work.

 

[skins]

sorry didnt mean anything bad, i think what you do is not only fine but also great work.

i didn't towards you either. no harm no foul. also i knew a long time ago when my late freind john wright showed me one of your cues i told him you were going to be one of the great ones. he thought so too. pm me sometime and let me know your backlog.

 

[icon]

I start with "LOL!!!" because it was funny. If I was condescending, I'd start off with something else.


I don't understand the attempt at wordsmithing and wasting time. What is it about the words that you feel are contradictory? Most serious collectors would have chosen Balabushka. If "most" and not "all" serious collectors would have chosen Balabushka, then what would the rest have chosen? Szamboti, Rambow, possibly Gina.... Do you really want to get into silly wordsmithing?

If I said "most serious fans would consider Michael Jordan as the greatest basketball player ever, although giving the nod to Magic Johnson or Larry Bird would have been acceptable," would you understand that as fair and understandable statement?

Fred

OH! i see! you laugh out loud at people you're being nice to!
wordsmithing? new one on me! i was just repeating what you had posted.
either way it's not worth arguing, or as joe would say debating about!

jeff

 

[icon]

iconcue's site and saw the atrocious inlay work displayed under uber-clear photos (great job iconcue, btw). Those gluelines are simply outrageous, and I urge anyone curious enough to check them out.

no! that would be an example of poor photography!

i could make ANY cue maker look bad with close up shots using todays imaging technology.

also people get better with experience! how do you know when in barry's career the cue you are referring to was made?

if you're judging barry on those pics you are way off base!

also thanks for the compliments on my cues!

jeff

 

[buddha162]

i could make ANY cue maker look bad with close up shots using todays imaging technology.

I went back to your website and under BS it says..."taking better pics" LMFAO! Are you photoshopping those pics?!?

Your photos are great, they show intricate detail and in this case, shoddy-ass inlay work. There are plenty of cues on your site, and I didn't see anything wrong with the rest of them. Your pictures are a true representation of his work, unless you photoshopped in the gluelines and the crooked windows!

Good luck with the "better pictures." I'm sure they'll show nothing but perfect inlays, LMFAO, again!

-Roger (and what the hell is "imaging technology"? that's what they'll be after you manipulated them, not the way they are now...find a backbone and defend those cues as they are, instead of scampering to "fix" those photographs)

 

[icon]

I went back to your website and under BS it says..."taking better pics" LMFAO! Are you photoshopping those pics?!?

Your photos are great, they show intricate detail and in this case, shoddy-ass inlay work. There are plenty of cues on your site, and I didn't see anything wrong with the rest of them. Your pictures are a true representation of his work, unless you photoshopped in the gluelines and the crooked windows!

Good luck with the "better pictures." I'm sure they'll show nothing but perfect inlays, LMFAO, again!

-Roger (and what the hell is "imaging technology"? that's what they'll be after you manipulated them, not the way they are now...find a backbone and defend those cues as they are, instead of scampering to "fix" those photographs)

send me your skip and i'll make it look just as bad w/o photoshop!
you obviously dont know what you are talking about!

 

[cueaddicts]

I went back to your website and under BS it says..."taking better pics" LMFAO! Are you photoshopping those pics?!?

Your photos are great, they show intricate detail and in this case, shoddy-ass inlay work. There are plenty of cues on your site, and I didn't see anything wrong with the rest of them. Your pictures are a true representation of his work, unless you photoshopped in the gluelines and the crooked windows!

Good luck with the "better pictures." I'm sure they'll show nothing but perfect inlays, LMFAO, again!

-Roger (and what the hell is "imaging technology"? that's what they'll be after you manipulated them, not the way they are now...find a backbone and defend those cues as they are, instead of scampering to "fix" those photographs)

This brings me to an interesting point I'd like to interject. For the most part, what you are often seeing as glue lines a poor workmanship is probably more likely the limits of the lacquer finish Barry is using. It's 2005 and there are several great automotive finishes out there. Even if a cue is unused, over time lacquer will tend to yellow and move/peel.

 

[JimBo]

Where did I ever post Skip cues had NO style... I just stated the style and design were less than appealing

LOL once more your posts say more to back up what I have said then any words I post. You are blinded by hate Joe, please ignore my posts or reread yours so you don't look like such a fool. If from the start he was doing traditional cues then how was his style less then appealing? Also it's just an opinion you have that his 8 pointers weren't appealing, one I didn't share with you, but of course you being the know it all of all Skip's work we should just go by your opinion and disregaurd all others LOL.


I will ask again.. elaborate please.

Joe

I will elaborate when I feel your worth replying to, as of now all you want is to have a fight due to the fact that you are blinded by my name :-D sorry Joe, I'll debate you when you can think clear.

Jim

 

[JimBo]

Jeff, you are right. IMO, the development is where the overwhelming majority of the time and effort is. But after that's done, the prevalent perception out there is that it's just math....and of course getting your cue chucked up, indexed, the right end mill cutter, etc. Once the set-up is done, the 'manual work' stops and the machine takes over. When it's finished you have a perfect pocket for your fancy inlay.

We're not talking about fit and finish work, just the basics of manually cutting out inlays vs. cnc machine.

Tim, please clarify if this is wrong.......

LOL stick to trying to sell cues Sean.
First off and I really hope you know this we are talking about designing cues.
Second there is much more to the design then just drawing it up. Lots of work goes into the layout and order of the inlays, making it work isn't just putting puzzle pieces in holes.

Jim

 

[JimBo]

i think he also has to remember this was 20 yrs ago.

The movie came out 20 years ago and the cue had to be from a time period 20 years prior to that (at least) So we need to remember what cues were popular playing cues of that time, the list is small to say the least.

Jim

 

[cueaddicts]

LOL stick to trying to sell cues Sean.
First off and I really hope you know this we are talking about designing cues.
Second there is much more to the design then just drawing it up. Lots of work goes into the layout and order of the inlays, making it work isn't just putting puzzle pieces in holes.

Jim

LOL is right. Of course you have to get your last word in, even when it's replying to a post directed at someone else. Maybe you don't just have a hard-on for Joe and Mark.....maybe me. Get a life.

And who the hell knows what this thread is about anymore thanks to you getting it off the subject.

 

[classiccues]

LOL once more your posts say more to back up what I have said then any words I post. You are blinded by hate Joe, please ignore my posts or reread yours so you don't look like such a fool. If from the start he was doing traditional cues then how was his style less then appealing? Also it's just an opinion you have that his 8 pointers weren't appealing, one I didn't share with you, but of course you being the know it all of all Skip's work we should just go by your opinion and disregaurd all others LOL.


I will elaborate when I feel your worth replying to, as of now all you want is to have a fight due to the fact that you are blinded by my name :-D sorry Joe, I'll debate you when you can think clear.

Jim

Don't twist the words you nit. Yes his first 5 cues were maple forearmed with ebony or rosewood points and veneers. But when I say his style is less than appealing it was the direction afterwards. Nice try, but you gotta do better than that.

You cannot debate me, once you start getting whacked you start with the bash Mark, muddy the water stuff.

BTW where was the answer about dealers and making money.. oh thats right.. the second you get caught, addios that remark..

Joe

 

[classiccues]

you have got me curious as to why balabushka was used in the movie. maybe i'll give marty a call and see what he says? didnt they really use joss cues though? who was the tech adviser as far as billiard equipment? maybe they just asked mccready and he said "just say balabushka, some people think they're decent cues!"
whatever the reason is it i will still have the opinion that they are over priced and less appealing to me personally as a collector since he did not make his own blanks. maybe mark ought to dump his as quick as possible for whatever he can get!

Jeff,
You want to know why Bushka was used in the movie? It was mentioned in the book TCOM in 1984. So PRIOR to the movie and its technical advisors Tevis knew the cue to have. Its suprising that certain collector(s) that are so "knowledgable" didn't say that. Plus I think Tevis was from Kentucky, you think he might of chose someone from the midwest...
So don't believe people who don't know anything that happened East of the Sears tower.
Also there has been very few cues that have had the positive track record of Bushkas. Remember there were 1200 +/-. You're not talking about a guy who made cues for 60 years, some he didn't even make, and probably made 3000 or more.

Joe

 

[buddha162]

send me your skip and i'll make it look just as bad w/o photoshop!
you obviously dont know what you are talking about!

What exactly are you saying? That those gluelines were not there? That somehow, through the magic of "imaging technology," they appeared out of nowhere in your photographs of the cue?

I've looked at my Skip under a loop, a magnifying glass, right up against my face, and found no imperfections. One veneer in one point is short by (literally) a hair, and that's it. But we're not comparing Skip to Barry, I don't own a fancy inlayed Skip and if I did it wouldn't be anything studded into rosewood, so it wouldn't be a fair comparison in any case.

Just answer my questions to the best of your abilities, and don't tell me I can't process what I see with my own eyes. You're not houdini, this isn't a magic show, and those gluelines and crooked windows exists on your Szamboti cues.

-Roger

 

[icon]

Jeff,
You want to know why Bushka was used in the movie? It was mentioned in the book TCOM in 1984. So PRIOR to the movie and its technical advisors Tevis knew the cue to have. Its suprising that certain collector(s) that are so "knowledgable" didn't say that. Plus I think Tevis was from Kentucky, you think he might of chose someone from the midwest...
So don't believe people who don't know anything that happened East of the Sears tower.
Also there has been very few cues that have had the positive track record of Bushkas. Remember there were 1200 +/-. You're not talking about a guy who made cues for 60 years, some he didn't even make, and probably made 3000 or more.

Joe

i wondered about that?

didnt know if there had been a book!

thanks for the info joe!

 

[icon]

What exactly are you saying? That those gluelines were not there? That somehow, through the magic of "imaging technology," they appeared out of nowhere in your photographs of the cue?

I've looked at my Skip under a loop, a magnifying glass, right up against my face, and found no imperfections. One veneer in one point is short by (literally) a hair, and that's it. But we're not comparing Skip to Barry, I don't own a fancy inlayed Skip and if I did it wouldn't be anything studded into rosewood, so it wouldn't be a fair comparison in any case.

Just answer my questions to the best of your abilities, and don't tell me I can't process what I see with my own eyes. You're not houdini, this isn't a magic show, and those gluelines and crooked windows exists on your Szamboti cues.

-Roger

it was pretty short and to the point! surely you understood it.