What do you prefer to break with? Heavy or light?

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
18-19 ozs generates the most speed for me versus 21+ oz break cues.
I realize that cues can weigh up to 25 ounces and still be legal to use.

A house cue would be fine if it wasn’t for the tip used. A very hard tip
Is needed, nickel shaped, struck 3/4 - 1 tip below center at 80% speed.
In other words, you could still hit for the fences on your break but don’t.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
I've always been a light breaker kind of guy. That said, my 'hard' break has always been the worst part of my game. Controlling my stroke at ridiculous speed has never been my strong suit, so I was looking at something along the lines of a Heavy Hitter.

Mere days ago I received a new CF breaker which I think is in the range of 19oz. It transfers what little power I generate far more efficiently than my old solid maple breaker. So I guess I'm still in the lightish range with better tech
 
I was using a friend's 25 oz breaker. Then I got my own, 16 oz. I'm currently using the shaft from the 16 oz breaker with a butt from another cue. I haven't weighed it, but I'd guess I'm right around 19 oz now. Just a touch heavier might be what I was looking for all along.
 

phreaticus

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Who likes a heavy breaker and who likes a lighter one?

I feel like I’m on the opposite side on this one. My players are 19.25oz and 19oz. I like to break with an 18oz. Preferred breaker 1 piece Dufferin or any solid wood 1 piece. Anything over 20oz is way too heavy.

Guess I’m the oddball here. Never really saw the point of a break cue. I’ve heard and understand all the various reasons that folks prefer dedicated break cues, and I’ve owned/tried a few but they don’t seem to do anything special for me. The concept of repeatedly switching to a totally different cue during a match for the most important shots - has always seemed weird to me. In fact this is one of several reasons I don’t like soft tips - they mushroom too much if used to break with. I sometimes wonder if they have become en vogue along with the general fad of softer tips and LD shafts, as neither of those are optimal for breaking...

No “right” answer, all subjective tradeoffs, but personally I value consistency over most other variables. I play with a 19 oz ish cue with medium tips, and even prefer to execute easy jumps with my playing cue unless its too short a hop and I’m forced to use a jump cue to be competitive.

Obviously most pros seem to use break cues so there must be something faulty with my logic, or beyond my experience/skill level. But I genuinely wonder... why not extend break cue logic even further and have a multitude of cues for the many different shot types, like golf? Eg, we have break cues, jump cues, masse cues, playing cues - why not add cues with heavy shafts & soft tips for short delicate rail shots, and rearward balanced harder tip cues for long draw shots?

That said, I think the physics works out such that almost anyone can generate more power & maintain more control with a lighter break stick. For the most part this is true for most athletic activities dealing with similar issues (eg baseball, tennis, golf, skiing, mountain biking...), which is one of the reasons for the general migration to lighter, stronger materials.

Cheers
 
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ctyhntr

RIP Kelly
Silver Member
...

Obviously most pros seem to use break cues so there must be something faulty with my logic, or beyond my experience/skill level. But I genuinely wonder... why not extend break cue logic even further and have a multitude of cues for the many different shot types, like golf? Eg, we have break cues, jump cues, masse cues, playing cues - why not add cues with heavy shafts & soft tips for short delicate rail shots, and rearward balanced harder tip cues for long draw shots?

That said, I think the physics works out such that almost anyone can generate more power & maintain more control with a lighter break stick. For the most part this is true for most athletic activities dealing with similar issues (eg baseball, tennis, golf, skiing, mountain biking...), which is one of the reasons for the general migration to lighter, stronger materials.

Cheers

Making a ball on the break is far more crucial at the Pro level than for amateurs, because many are capable of multiple break and runs. If Earl Strickland can see the 1 ball, he's usually out. This is why when he missed, he forfeits the game out of self anger (for missing). In the winner break format, I've seen first hand a dry break can erase a 4 game lead. Such as playing against Chang Jun Lin, break and run 4 games in a row. This is because the 9-ball (aka Texas Express 9-ball) is the game of choice for tournaments. Prior to the popularization of this game, dedicated break cues and jump cues didn't exist. Hope this helps your understanding.
 

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Guess I’m the oddball here. Never really saw the point of a break cue. I’ve heard and understand all the various reasons that folks prefer dedicated break cues - but the concept of repeatedly switching to a totally different cue during a match for the most important shots - has always seemed weird to me. In fact this is one of several reasons I don’t like soft tips - they mushroom too much if used to break with. No “right” answer, all subjective tradeoffs, but personally I value consistency over most other variables. I play with a 19 oz ish cue with medium tips, and even prefer to execute easy jumps with my playing cue unless its too short a hop and I’m forced to use a jump cue to be competitive.

Obviously most pros seem to use break cues so there must be something faulty with my logic, or beyond my experience/skill level. But I genuinely wonder... why not extend break cue logic even further and have a multitude of cues for the many different shot types, like golf? Eg, we have break cues, jump cues, masse cues, playing cues - why not add cues with heavy shafts & soft tips for short delicate rail shots, and rearward balanced harder tip cues for long draw shots?

That said, I think the physics works out such that almost anyone can generate more power & maintain more control with a lighter break stick. For the most part this is true for most athletic activities dealing with similar issues (eg baseball, tennis, golf, skiing, mountain biking...), which is one of the reasons for the general migration to lighter, stronger materials.

Cheers
Why would I want to slam the shape of my playing cue’s tip from repeatedly breaking with it?
I strive to get it into the contour shape I desire & don’t want to scuff or reshape it needlessly.

It is the contact point for my stroke so I want to preserve its shape for as long as possible until
I need to refresh the surface area and I am meticulous about doing that. Light sanding is used
and I leather burnish the side of the tip. The notion of pounding it on my break makes no sense.
My playing cue uses a different leather tip and it’s softer than what most break cues typically use.

I see players break with their cues, or house cues, but a breaking cue seems to get the job done
better based on my observations. It comes down to finding the right specs & you’ll see the difference.
 

phreaticus

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Making a ball on the break is far more crucial at the Pro level than for amateurs, because many are capable of multiple break and runs. If Earl Strickland can see the 1 ball, he's usually out. This is why when he missed, he forfeits the game out of self anger (for missing). In the winner break format, I've seen first hand a dry break can erase a 4 game lead. Such as playing against Chang Jun Lin, break and run 4 games in a row. This is because the 9-ball (aka Texas Express 9-ball) is the game of choice for tournaments. Prior to the popularization of this game, dedicated break cues and jump cues didn't exist. Hope this helps your understanding.

Thx. I understand match/break formats, and completely grok the importance of the break shot and making a ball. That's exactly why I prefer the consistency of using the same cue I play with. With modern equipment, using maximum power to slam break shots isn't really what most of us are doing anymore, and 10-ball and alternate break formats sort of minimize that logic - yet we still see a strong preference for break cues in those environments also.

I guess @Bavafongoul's response is more likely to be what affects many players - and is aligned with what I was originally surmising. For those who prefer softer playing tips that shroom out easily and require more maintenance - definitely makes sense to have dedicated break cue. I prefer medium tips and minimal fussing with tips in general, so guess it's sort of non applicable to me.

Not trying to be contentious or critical. I tend to be a minimalist, and strongly biased towards consistency in all aspects of the game. To each their own.

Peace & love
 
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Geosnookery

Well-known member
I just grab a house cue. The pool halls I play in usually have one piece Dufferins. Usually around 17 to 18 oz. I break with medium power…more consistent than when breaking harder.

I rarely break at home…usually just toss the balls on the table… or have balls arrange as in games like ‘Stalingrad’.
 
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Chili Palmer

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thx. I understand match/break formats, and completely grok the importance of the break shot and making a ball. That's exactly why I prefer the consistency of using the same cue I play with. With modern equipment, using maximum power to slam break shots isn't really what most of us are doing anymore, and 10-ball and alternate break formats sort of minimize that logic - yet we still see a strong preference for break cues in those environments also.

I guess @Bavafongoul's response is more likely to be what affects many players - and is aligned with what I was originally surmising. For those who prefer softer playing tips that shroom out easily and require more maintenance - definitely makes sense to have dedicated break cue. I prefer medium tips and minimal fussing with tips in general, so guess it's sort of non applicable to me.

Not trying to be contentious or critical. I tend to be a minimalist, and strongly biased towards consistency in all aspects of the game. To each their own.

Peace & love

Wouldn't consistency be the best if you only used the same tip for breaking and the same tip for playing?
 

phreaticus

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Wouldn't consistency be the best if you only used the same tip for breaking and the same tip for playing?
Hi, not really sure what you’re getting at. I simply don’t view the break shot as something special that requires a special or different anything. I’m not a brilliant man, but hitting all shots (except for short jumps) with my playing cue/tip - seems pretty consistent and works well for me. I’m of the opinion that the holes & weak areas of my game (including improving my break) aren’t going to be fixed with this stick or that tip. Perhaps at some point I’ll be divinely blessed to see whatever truth I’m currently missing, but my guess is most folks use break cues because its what the cool kids do, and/or they play with soft tips and want to minimize tip maintenance, which is very reasonable. I’m open minded though, perhaps if I get a cool new breaker with phenolic tip and an embossed 3x5 case my game will jump a ball or two. Shoot, I might even grab a glove and a personalized magnetic chalk holder while I’m shopping. Can never have enough fancy arrows in the quiver...

.
 

logical

apart of their 'semi public'
Silver Member
I've tried all the way up to 26 Oz but do best matching my 19 oz players and use a Joss Thor Hammer with slightly fatter shaft than I play with

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Hi, not really sure what you’re getting at. I simply don’t view the break shot as something special that requires a special or different anything. I’m not a brilliant man, but hitting all shots (except for short jumps) with my playing cue/tip - seems pretty consistent and works well for me. I’m of the opinion that the holes & weak areas of my game (including improving my break) aren’t going to be fixed with this stick or that tip. Perhaps at some point I’ll be divinely blessed to see whatever truth I’m currently missing, but my guess is most folks use break cues because its what the cool kids do, and/or they play with soft tips and want to minimize tip maintenance, which is very reasonable. I’m open minded though, perhaps if I get a cool new breaker with phenolic tip and an embossed 3x5 case my game will jump a ball or two. Shoot, I might even grab a glove and a personalized magnetic chalk holder while I’m shopping. Can never have enough fancy arrows in the quiver...

.

LOL, I can see the sarcasm in your post regarding the latest this or that. Trust me, I'm not that guy. I don't own a glove, I don't use fancy chalk, I don't own a super expensive cue, I don't own a super expensive break cue, I'll never own carbon fiber, etc...

Point being, I began using a break cue because I did use soft tips, but over time I realized I prefer a much different tip profile for my break cue so even though I now use a hard tip (and break with it occasionally) I won't play a serious game of pool without a break cue, so I am consistent ;)

Good luck in your endeavors.
 

phreaticus

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
LOL, I can see the sarcasm in your post regarding the latest this or that. Trust me, I'm not that guy. I don't own a glove, I don't use fancy chalk, I don't own a super expensive cue, I don't own a super expensive break cue, I'll never own carbon fiber, etc...

Point being, I began using a break cue because I did use soft tips, but over time I realized I prefer a much different tip profile for my break cue so even though I now use a hard tip (and break with it occasionally) I won't play a serious game of pool without a break cue, so I am consistent ;)

Good luck in your endeavors.
I get it. Thx for sharing your experience, I value & respect your views. Cheers
 

westcoast

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I like heavy cues- my playing cue is 23 ounces (I shoot with a 4 oz extension that is 6 inches long) and my break cue is 23 ounces
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Hi, not really sure what you’re getting at. I simply don’t view the break shot as something special that requires a special or different anything. I’m not a brilliant man, but hitting all shots (except for short jumps) with my playing cue/tip - seems pretty consistent and works well for me. I’m of the opinion that the holes & weak areas of my game (including improving my break) aren’t going to be fixed with this stick or that tip. Perhaps at some point I’ll be divinely blessed to see whatever truth I’m currently missing, but my guess is most folks use break cues because its what the cool kids do, and/or they play with soft tips and want to minimize tip maintenance, which is very reasonable. I’m open minded though, perhaps if I get a cool new breaker with phenolic tip and an embossed 3x5 case my game will jump a ball or two. Shoot, I might even grab a glove and a personalized magnetic chalk holder while I’m shopping. Can never have enough fancy arrows in the quiver...

.
Speaking as a reformed minimalist I know exactly where you're coming from. However what I can say is that power in my break has been a hole in my game for a very long time. In the last several years I have been using templates and opt to break with my soft tipped player. I don't need the power, and rather focus on controlling the CB. That said, I did very recently pony up for a CF breaker and the difference in power transfer into the CB is quite noticeable. Does that replace my player the option for a controlled break...?..., no not at all. What it does do is give me option when I'm dealing with bad racks, or other poor table conditions.

Not saying everyone should run out and buy a high dollar breaker. Just saying that poopooing on the notion that a dedicated breaker could improve break performance to a notable level, is short sighted.
 

phreaticus

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Speaking as a reformed minimalist I know exactly where you're coming from. However what I can say is that power in my break has been a hole in my game for a very long time. In the last several years I have been using templates and opt to break with my soft tipped player. I don't need the power, and rather focus on controlling the CB. That said, I did very recently pony up for a CF breaker and the difference in power transfer into the CB is quite noticeable. Does that replace my player the option for a controlled break...?..., no not at all. What it does do is give me option when I'm dealing with bad racks, or other poor table conditions.

Not saying everyone should run out and buy a high dollar breaker. Just saying that poopooing on the notion that a dedicated breaker could improve break performance to a notable level, is short sighted.
Thx for your feedback. I don’t believe I’m poopooing anything. Have fun with your break cue, glad it works for you. I’ve experimented with break cues, including cheapies and other well known popular ones; both heavy and light, various tips, etc. What can I tell you, I’ve tested and quantified best I can, no discernible positive change in results for me, so I guess we just have different experiences. I play with traditional FS splice butts and Cynergy CF 12.5 shaft, medium tips. When I was first getting used to CF shafts, I didn’t break with them, as I was unsure of strength/durability of both the CF and the shorter, lighter, newer ferrule materials. But the good thing about production CF shafts, is that an exact perfect replacement is a just credit card order away, but turns out mine are holding up perfectly fine anyway. In any case, I slam hard 8b/9b breaks on shitty bar tables, more controlled breaks on nice big tables and soft 1p breaks - endlessly with same cue and holds up fine and I seem to be having decent results.

I get pretty much the same results if I crack the balls with a house cue, my player, or various break cues. IMO, the variables associated with my own stroke and the table conditions dwarf the .83% power transfer improvement or 1.2% more control or whatever else folks claim to get out of their arrows/quivers. Just a perspective, not claiming I’m “right” or anyone is “wrong”. I’m an Indian vs Arrow kind of mindset, and prefer to not carry a golf bag for a cue case. And maybe I just suck compared to all you guys, so there is that.

Back to the OP’s question, I think Dr. Dave’s materials and countless discussions over the years tend to show that most folks will be able to deliver plenty of controlled power, more efficiently - with lighter cues. But what does “lighter” mean? May mean totally different things for a 6’6” 250 lb person vs a slender short person.

Peace & love brethren.
 

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wouldn't consistency be the best if you only used the same tip for breaking and the same tip for playing?
How many times after shooting the break shot do you stroke the cue ball as hard again as you did on the break shot?
I submit unless you have a relatively mild break shot, not until you break again. Ergo, the answer is going to be never.
 
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