What do you think is the reason for so many good pool halls closing?

[JoeW]

I still think there's hope. WhatI've been wondering about recently is how can we reach out to the golfers? I've been hearing about a lot of golfers that have given up on it recently. It's just too expensive and time consuming. Pool is way, way, cheaper than golf. Not to mention, you can't put a driving range down in your basement. If you are after some friendly competition and a hobby that you can pursue without spending thousands of dollars - pool is the way to go.

Maybe it's just me but pool was oncc bigger than golf - maybe someday it can be half as big as golf is now.

I'm a dreamer.

I think there is hope in this area. Here in Florida in our "old guys" league probably half or more of the players are golfers. When you can get them interested they are usually pretty good players too.

Might be good if they could get some tables installed at a golf club or two. Not country clubs but places usually open to the public. Sure would help our sport.

I used to play golf on a regular basis (joined the country club too). When I sing the praises of playing pool to my acquaintainces (professional people mostly) you have to overcome the hustler perception and many cannot get past it.

Seems that many professional people simply do not want to be known as a "pool player." It is OK to have the "game" in their home but it is not OK to be identified as a pool player.

With all the advertizing that shows players as hustlers, bar people, etc we have a long way to go to change the image. I would like to see pool and billiards in the Olympics. That could yield some good PR.

 

[limbo]

Local Idol(s) Playing Pool - Like the Philippines have Efren, Busty,.... that the younger generations look at as role models, this will ensure new blood to keep the sport going on. Hell, even Pacman plays pool, he is the other Idol (Boxing) that the can keep an entire country glued to the tube whenever he has a match.

 

[Lumocolor]

Poolrooms today need to diversify. My local room has been around for 20yrs or so, they have about 32 9 footers, 1 snooker table, about 12 video poker machines (which bring in a ton of money) and 5 of those indoor golfing simulator screens or whatever they're called. During the winter you almost see more people walking in with golf bags than cue cases. They keep their tables full 2 nights a week by running 2 leagues and hold some tournaments on the weekends.

As for pool being cheap, i guess that depends on location, the room i mentioned above (which is about where you can find the best equipment in my area) charges $9 or so an hour per person after sundown, a little cheaper during the day with a 20% or so discount if you buy a membership card. Thats not exactly cheap in my opinion.

 

[wigglybridge]

i can tell you what makes some rooms Stay Open: customer focus.

the Second time i ever went into Ivory Billiards in Holyoke MA, the owner who'd met me exactly Once a week before said "hey Mills, how are you doing tonight?". a few weeks later, the same kind of personal care from his partner/brother; one repeat visit is all it took, and he treated me like a valued customer.

the Third time i went in, owner #1 gives me a table and says "pepperoni pizza with a ginger ale, right?" (can't drink anymore). again, same thing with the woman behind the bar the next few times i come in.

the owners say hi to my girlfriend by name, even though she's in there only once every month or two, and Tommy gave her a 3-cushion lesson unprompted one night because he was excited that she was interested.

they have a bunch of bar boxes for league play, and those are usually busy. i don't play those, so i can't speak to their quality, but the 2 Gold Crowns and 6 Anniversaries are kept in top-notch shape, dead level, with Simonis 860 replaced when necessary.

that kind of personal touch guarantees customer loyalty: you better believe i tell everyone i know who might be interested in pool what the best hall around is, and why it's worth driving a little further to get there.

 

[loyarc]

Economics & The Times

First, I don't believe many truly 'good' rooms are closing. But for the others, I would think the math - pure and simple - is the reason. Low revenue per square foot in relation to high overhead costs (proportionately).

Another huge reason (and somewhat more abstract I suppose) that seems to get lost IMO is simple: times change. Nothing stays the same forever. Today's case in point: Encyclopedia Brittanica. They just announced they will no longer be printing their encyclopedia after some 240+ years. Why? Times have changed, essentially.

Industries of all types are constantly in flux.

Thomas Wolff wrote 'You Can't Go Home Again.' Per Wikipedia, 'The title comes from the finale of the novel when protagonist George Webber realizes, "You can't go back home to your family, back home to your childhood ... back home to a young man's dreams of glory and of fame ... back home to places in the country, back home to the old forms and systems of things which once seemed everlasting but which are changing all the time – back home to the escapes of Time and Memory."

But maybe it's OK, although unfortunate for the affected room owners for sure. But then again, that's capitalism: it's a zero-sum game more or less.

Last, in certain aspects, rooms closing can be a positive:It can help make the existing ones be more viable. Well, ideally.

And while there are many places without a room now because of closures, there's still certainly many many many great ones still thriving.

 

[maha]

i travel to lots of different pool rooms. the ones doing the best are those with alcohol and great food. this way the average patron spends more.
the ones without either , they play and leave. also the non smoking ones do better from what i have seen as more groups come in. makes sense as the non smokers in a group wont go there, so maybe the whole group doesnt or slows down.
places that got hit with the non smoking ban did lose customers. yes some of the smokers. but they already had lost their core spenders the non smokers as they out number the smokers in most areas.

the clean ones with clean tables and balls. and clean restrooms do better. girls dont go to places with filthy restrooms. so their dates dont take them there. maybe they dont verbalize it but tend to tell their dates that isnt what they want to do. no girls less guys.

there isnt a simple answer to a complex situation. but the best run places win out.

 

[LAlouie]

Management, the wrong people are running the place, too much catering to players, and it doesn't draw people who have money to spend.

 

[conetip]

I think the problem is many more people have tables at home.The price of running a car is certainly higher.It is easy to say bad management, but from examples above it is obvious a room can not make it, if there are not enough paying customers.With the area required for a room and then rent/taxes, utilities,wages, profit for the company, upkeep/maintenance,you need alot more customers coming in through the door than what most might think.
The recession and available spare/free money is not plentiful as has been in previous years.
Out here, not alot of people have houses big enough or with enough spare room to have a pool table. As a result of this, the pool hall in town is doing well, so are the bars and various clubs.
Neil

 

[Red Shoes]

Reasons for closings..."Casinos, Video Games, Smoking Bans, Taxes, Licensing Fees, Liability Exposure"...very tough business.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

NASCAR has Fans that ARE KOO KOO over NASCAR!

 

[OneIron]

I'm not going to list what reasons I believe are closing down the poolhalls, but I want to share what I saw a week ago in my local hangout.

A large group of eight young men and women (probably late teens to mid-twenties) came into the hall and promptly took over two tables. They stayed about an hour and a half. In that time not a SINGLE one of them ate nor drank anything. They turned their balls in, paid the table time and left.

Now, I don't know what the table rates are there, but I can assure you that NO poolhall can keep its doors open on revenue generated by table rental.

There HAS to be food and drink bought for the halls to stay open.

I get to shoot for free at my local hall because of league affiliation, but I do my part to support the hall by ALWAYS buying food and drinks (including alcohol) there and generously tipping the bartender/wait staff.

This group of kids that came in and bought nothing did very little to support this poolhall.

Maniac

I don't disagree with your assessment but many rooms could be more proactive in selling their food and drinks. I play in a nice room with Diamond tables. But sometimes, it's almost impossible to get a beer. The bartender is nowhere to be found or taking their sweet time. If I were a room owner, I would have waitresses who were outgoing and energetic. I would have them moving around the room asking customers if they need anything. In my area, that's rare.

BTW, as a customer, I always buy a couple of beers to help support the room.

 

[Lock N Load]

I don't disagree with your assessment but many rooms could be more proactive in selling their food and drinks. I play in a nice room with Diamond tables. But sometimes, it's almost impossible to get a beer. The bartender is nowhere to be found or taking their sweet time. If I were a room owner, I would have waitresses who were outgoing and energetic. I would have them moving around the room asking customers if they need anything. In my area, that's rare.

BTW, as a customer, I always buy a couple of beers to help support the room.

Good post. You are correct about poor service!
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[whammo57]

And where did you get this theory from? Please elaborate.

All the bars in the Atlanta area were up in arms when the state proposed a no smoking ban.

After it went into effect.... we never heard another word about it. The same number of people still drink. It didn't stop any smokers from drinking. Business may even have increase when non smokers began to frequent the bars where they had not previously gone because of the smoke.

Those that *****ed the loudest were smokers that owned bars.

There is no real data proving one way or the other only the BS shared by both sides.

LOL

Kim

 

[Wags]

tight pockets

Movies, Bowling, Golf & tight pockets.
randyg

It is good top see that someone else shares my feelings about tight pockets.

Yes, pool is just part of the entertainment package. Pool rooms are competing with all of the above and then some. The entertainment dollar is tight. For the sake of the entertainment player, let them make balls. That's all we ever wanted to do when we first started.

I remember watching a tournament where one of the participants had never played on a diamond. He was hitting the OB into the long rail before the corner pocket and couldn't figure out why it wasn't going. He got so upset with the "equipment", becasue it wasn't what he was used to, he broke his cue and said he quit the game forever.

That certainly doesn't help biz.

 

[spktur]

All the bars in the Atlanta area were up in arms when the state proposed a no smoking ban.

After it went into effect.... we never heard another word about it. The same number of people still drink. It didn't stop any smokers from drinking. Business may even have increase when non smokers began to frequent the bars where they had not previously gone because of the smoke.

Those that *****ed the loudest were smokers that owned bars.

There is no real data proving one way or the other only the BS shared by both sides.

LOL

Kim

They just went 21 and over which the Georgia law allows and kept smoking. The only places without smoking in Atlanta are the family restaurants. Pretty much the same here in Tennessee.

 

[Wags]

No bar or pool room has lost 5 cents because of the no smoking policy.... That information is passed on by smokers.

Kim

I don't want to turn this into a smoking thread, I just hate misinformation.

You are wrong. I have been fortunate to be in contact with many room owneres that have experienced the effects of the no-smoking laws.

They each tell me the same thing, biz drops from 20 to 40%. Not very many businesses can withstand that kind of drop in income. Could you stand that much of a drop in your income?

If you think this is BS., just go to the Room Owners section and read what they say about it. I think they know their biz well enuf to know what is going on.

Some rooms have adapted thru good management and added other income producers to what they have to offer, but the majority just couldn't move fast enough.

Non-smokers have NOT replaced the smoking/drinking crowd that left.

The laws are here to stay though and new rooms opening will not know the pain suffered by those that fell under the new laws.

Please do your research before making such sweeping statements. Hope this helps in your reassessment.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

One of my Neighbors had a Room in Flagstaff AZ, he charge a $3.00/Person Cover for Non Players. A Coupon was given for EACH THREE DOLLAR COVER CHARGE.

The Coupon could be used with in a year for Table Time, Merchandise, Food, Drink etc. He thought the idea would make some Dollar & Cents and make the Room a Gold Mine in the Collage Town.

He lasted a year, and went under like the Titanic.

 

[offaxis]

This is just my little opinion based on my area location. I believe in order for a pool hall to survive it needs to diversify some. Make it just more than a pool room but at the same time try not to alienate the core group. I do believe the economy has something to do with it but i think not as much as some believe. Go to your local malls and you see hundreds of cars parked. The bars here at least the half decent ones always have people in it. So there is money to be made. You need to drive up foot traffic and i dont believe in this day in age the pool tables alone might not cut it. Perhaps have bands, comedy shows, and other venues tied in. Make it so people want to come and possibly bring a date there. I also believe video games especially now a days is affecting everything. There are millions of people playing such games as Call of Duty. I have 2 friends (one former) who use to be in to playing pool. Both have succumbed to staying home and just playing video games. These are guys in their 30's by the way. Not only pool is affected. I think someone said this before go to your local skating rink where just 6 or 7 years ago there would be 50 people now you see 20. Playgrounds, bowling alleys etc. As a side note i think Bowling alleys attract slightly more people. Times are changing and i believe pool hall owners have to be more creative in keeping up with those times, and finding new ways to attract people.

 

[The Chinchilla]

I honestly think the sport is dying in the US. In order to change, we need more SVB's, a lot more, like one in every other state or something. We had a situation like this 30 years ago, just monsters everywhere. People need to be able to actually see, with their own eyes, something they want to emulate. Right now that something is blogging, DJing, video games etc. Pool is in a full blown coma, with no signs of recovery.

 

[Spider1]

All the bars in the Atlanta area were up in arms when the state proposed a no smoking ban.

After it went into effect.... we never heard another word about it. The same number of people still drink. It didn't stop any smokers from drinking. Business may even have increase when non smokers began to frequent the bars where they had not previously gone because of the smoke.

Those that *****ed the loudest were smokers that owned bars.

Georgia allows smoking in bars. Gee, wonder why the bars stopped complaining?

There is no real data proving one way or the other only the BS shared by both sides.

LOL

Kim

"No real data" means you don't work in the industry and have never asked those who do who might have first hand observations.