Here in Champaign-Urbana IL we have seen many many five- or ten-dollar tournaments open and close. Either the turnout never gets to a sustainable level or it drops off after a few strong players show up. I know that there are bar tournaments that go on for years and years even in much smaller pool communities than ours. So what does it take? I'd love to read about your favorite local tournaments and what keeps the folks coming back.
What elements does a successful bar tournament have?
- Thread starter longhair
- Start date
From past experience, you must have very short races, 8-ball race to 1, 9-ball race to 2 or 3. pay back to 20% of field. Add $ for certain # of players{ even if it's a very small amount}. Do not let the same people win week after week{if player A wins 2 in a row, He can't play for 2 or 3 weeks}. These are used by several places I've been to.
Hope this helps, Sam.
Hope this helps, Sam.
We have the same problem here in lafayette/ west lafayette, theres 100k+ people but no regular weekly tourney, we used to have a nice first saturday of the month tournament, but one pool league team got mad at the td and it basically killed the tourney, as well as a late night thursday tournament after league. One thing that hurt the monthly tournament is that instead of single game double elimination, they made it race to 2, theres a guy here in town thats one of the top bar boxers in the state and he won 6/7 tournaments one year. The pool scene here is really bad, one guy was driving 2 hours almost every week to play at muncie, now a couple others are pretty regularly, and a few i have talked to have been up to chicago which is also 2 hours away.
Theres one tournament outside of town that has one of the best formats i have seen. They do $10 entry $0 added and they pay the quarters, in two tourneys i won $150. I think this is a good format to get a descent payout, most of the other tournies i have played was $5 entry. To make a good tourney i think that at least half the field should have a chance to get into the money, this tourney i thought only 1/4 had a shot at winning money, but most of them are too dumb to realize it, and they will keep a steady tourney. I think that banning winners for 2 weeks is a good idea to even out the odds for every player to win. The thing that I have noticed is that really weak players have a big effect on weekly tourneys, if you can draw 15+ players per week you should be ok.
I sought advice on starting a weekly tourney on this site and got no responses, and I went to some of the guys in town and tried to get them to start a tourney, one of the better players argued that he wouldn't play unless it was a race, this is funny cause now they are spoiled from the other tourney, he would play in any tourney no matter the format. I don't believe in handicaps, single game double elimination i think is the best way to go for 8 ball at least. We will never have a weekly tourney here, even if one popped up it would be killed.
My favorite tourney is in my home town in south west indiana, fort branch, they have a weekly tourney from september to april, and normally half the field is good players, the other half aren't so good. It's been a while since i played, but they did single game double elimination, no winners/losers bracket, draw p's after every round, and they only paid out top 2 places, around $100 for first $50 for second. Back then my game wasn't too solid i only won once, got a pretty good player to split with me. Theres an old guy from southern illinois who plays pretty strong, jack blood, he's like 83 now, he lives right on the border and i don't think he plays many tournies in illinois, but he is well known and respected in southern indiana. He squints a lot when he plays, everyone thinks he's blind, i'd like to see the spots he would get by guys who dunno him, when he probably wouldn't need one.
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Theres one tournament outside of town that has one of the best formats i have seen. They do $10 entry $0 added and they pay the quarters, in two tourneys i won $150. I think this is a good format to get a descent payout, most of the other tournies i have played was $5 entry. To make a good tourney i think that at least half the field should have a chance to get into the money, this tourney i thought only 1/4 had a shot at winning money, but most of them are too dumb to realize it, and they will keep a steady tourney. I think that banning winners for 2 weeks is a good idea to even out the odds for every player to win. The thing that I have noticed is that really weak players have a big effect on weekly tourneys, if you can draw 15+ players per week you should be ok.
I sought advice on starting a weekly tourney on this site and got no responses, and I went to some of the guys in town and tried to get them to start a tourney, one of the better players argued that he wouldn't play unless it was a race, this is funny cause now they are spoiled from the other tourney, he would play in any tourney no matter the format. I don't believe in handicaps, single game double elimination i think is the best way to go for 8 ball at least. We will never have a weekly tourney here, even if one popped up it would be killed.
My favorite tourney is in my home town in south west indiana, fort branch, they have a weekly tourney from september to april, and normally half the field is good players, the other half aren't so good. It's been a while since i played, but they did single game double elimination, no winners/losers bracket, draw p's after every round, and they only paid out top 2 places, around $100 for first $50 for second. Back then my game wasn't too solid i only won once, got a pretty good player to split with me. Theres an old guy from southern illinois who plays pretty strong, jack blood, he's like 83 now, he lives right on the border and i don't think he plays many tournies in illinois, but he is well known and respected in southern indiana. He squints a lot when he plays, everyone thinks he's blind, i'd like to see the spots he would get by guys who dunno him, when he probably wouldn't need one.
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I think a lot depends on how much work you want to put into it. Then there are a lot of variables that make a tournament successful that have nothing to do with how you set it up too, I would think. I mean you have to have willing participants first of all. If you don't have enough people willing to play, it won't happen. If you do have people willing to play, are they all local? If not, will it be worth it for people to make the trip? I think you have to sit down and figure out what your situation is first and then set your tournament up to best cater to the majority of people in your tournament.
longhair said:
I've run alot of tournies and have been very successful. I am in a small town though and there is not much else to do. I'll tell you my successful format. Most the bars in town are empty during the week, so i tell the bar owner to run a tournament on his slowest night. Noone likes an empty bar, its no fun, so getting around 16 players to show up makes it look like the bar is full, and more people off the street are gonna stay longer, if there is more people. So you tell him your tournament is a service to him, and he has to pay for it. Basicly its all in how you present it to him. My tournaments go like this:
$5 entry fee
Make the bar give every person in the tourny 1 free drink or a glass or pint of beer, basicly anything free.
Make the bar throw in $5 to the pot for every player in the tourny.
Thats it! SIMPLE. People love it because it is basicly free to enter if you are getting a free drink, and the bar loves it because not many people are only gonna drink thier free beer and stop, everyone drinks for most the night. If the bar has a kitchen they make money on food as well. I start my tournies at 7pm if possible and try to end them around 12pm. You get people showing up off the street at around 9-10 and they stick around cause the bar isnt empty. I usually try to pay the top 4 spots, and to keep people in the bar after they lose (spending thier money) i take some money from the prize pot ($10-$20) and do a cash draw for everyone that didnt make money. If you are the TD you should get some kinda perk too like a few extra free drinks. I got it going at a couple bars and now other bars are coming to me, asking me to do the same for them. Now ive got 4 tournies a week i can go to, and 2 i cant make it to!!! I win about 80% of the time but if you make it fun noone cares who wins or if they win any money themselves. Make it more about a night of entertainment and less about the winnings. Making it so that the winner can't play every week pisses lots of people off. For 1 the winner gets pissed, of course, and for 2 the losers get pissed cause noone likes beating bums. I would rather lose 50 weeks in a row and then beat that one TOUGH guy and feel a great feeling of accomlishment then win it every second week, when that guy isnt playing!! As the saying goes 'You gotta beat the best to BE the best!!'
Hi Boyd,
Maybe some type of bait would make a tournament stay in business even if the good players show up. You have been to the tournament in Bloomington and have seen what the break contest has done. People are calling at 11am to sign up because they want the chance to maybe win $1000 in a break contest. I saw the same thing happen in the Washington DC area with a break and run contest with a 10ball rack. If you could think of something like that to use maybe it would work.
Around the Chicago area everyone uses handicap systems. You could go that way but be prepared for arguments and sandbaggers. People are a little leary about straight race tournaments, even races to 3 or 4. I think it has to be drilled into everyones mind that anyone can win a short race.
If those don't work you could always try to convince the bar to make a huge drink special or food special for tournament players. If it is good enough or people want to drink enough they will play.
Just some ideas.
Sarah
Maybe some type of bait would make a tournament stay in business even if the good players show up. You have been to the tournament in Bloomington and have seen what the break contest has done. People are calling at 11am to sign up because they want the chance to maybe win $1000 in a break contest. I saw the same thing happen in the Washington DC area with a break and run contest with a 10ball rack. If you could think of something like that to use maybe it would work.
Around the Chicago area everyone uses handicap systems. You could go that way but be prepared for arguments and sandbaggers. People are a little leary about straight race tournaments, even races to 3 or 4. I think it has to be drilled into everyones mind that anyone can win a short race.
If those don't work you could always try to convince the bar to make a huge drink special or food special for tournament players. If it is good enough or people want to drink enough they will play.
Just some ideas.
Sarah
Here are a few things that I do with my weekly tournaments: 1) Add $5 or $10 to the tourney to pay an extra place. 2) Put in 1-3 local/regulars. 3) If you win two tournies in a row, you must sit out a week. In my opinion, nothing kills a weekly tournament like one player dominating every week. 4) Short races; race to 1, double elimination in 8 ball; race to 3 DE in 9 ball. 5) We have a point system and after 12 weeks the top 16 players play in our "Tournament of Champions" for cash and some very nice trophies. 6) Treat all players the same, no matter what their skill level! Well those are some things that have helped me at my small pool room.
bar table tourny
I have tourny on wed-sun start 7-8pm. $12 entry fee twon to house ten to pot. been very sussful, average,20-25 players on wed , 40-45 on sun plus players auction. I rate my players from 2 for the ladys toup to 7 for the guyes, all goes well ,different winer most every tourny.i have rule if you finish 1-2 in 2of3 tourny you go up apoint,then about once a month I will have tourny for 2-3-4, only on sat afternoon at3p,m. with good results the next month it will be for 5 and above`. the twice ayear have tourny for 14-and under, and have local nfl football player come in give talk and hand out tropheys hope some of this will help you STICK
I have tourny on wed-sun start 7-8pm. $12 entry fee twon to house ten to pot. been very sussful, average,20-25 players on wed , 40-45 on sun plus players auction. I rate my players from 2 for the ladys toup to 7 for the guyes, all goes well ,different winer most every tourny.i have rule if you finish 1-2 in 2of3 tourny you go up apoint,then about once a month I will have tourny for 2-3-4, only on sat afternoon at3p,m. with good results the next month it will be for 5 and above`. the twice ayear have tourny for 14-and under, and have local nfl football player come in give talk and hand out tropheys hope some of this will help you STICK
longhair said:
I have been running tourneys for over 30 years of all sizes, types and locations, with prizes from a turkey to a car to a ships cruise to $250,000..
I like to inform those who have tourney problems is...NOT ALL TOURNEYS SHOULD BE RUN THE SAME !!!
#1 and most important ...you do not need to use the same playing rules and formats in ALL tourneys.
If you have a small bar with many local "not very good" players, you need to run a "FUN" tourney...small entry fee/ win a case of beer...a turkey (during the holidays)...or a small cash prize...double elim is best...
A weekly tourney that has some good locals who want the $$$ and those who just play for the fun of it is the toughest scenario.
SATMAN and FXSKATER have given some good info for those types. I like to run a SIngle Elim, with short races...race to 2 eight ball...race to 3 nine ball...the winning player can come back to "defend his title" the following week but regardless of his finish that next week, he must sit out the 3rd and 4th weeks!
Having a "break pot" or a "runout pot" with a house added start prize gets many of those marginal players to come take a shot. Any one who's name is drawn adds a small fee to the pot and then takes his turn. I usually only have 5 players take the shot.
The "runout" pot is a little more difficult and usually only works with the better players...two names are drawn and those two players play "scotch" and try to runout from the break...break and runout! they get the pot...
Once in Vegas the "runout' pot got up to over $3000....with many great players in the tourney over the months previous...many pots were up close to $1000...
A weekender tourney with many good players who really come to win the $$$, a double elimination with a good spread on the payoffs is easiest.
Handicap tourneys are the "worst", just because of the 'bitchin' and cryin'...and of course the "sandbaggers"...
Many ways to solve this problem...but remember...the tournament 'dictator' needs to step up and take care of the situation.
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Thanks for all the help, folks!
I am going to print most of this thread and share it with the fellow that brought this up. I am impressed with the time and consideration you all gave my question.
We have very successful APA leagues here so there are plenty of players, especially 4's and 5's. Maybe we can come up with something that will bring them out.
I am going to print most of this thread and share it with the fellow that brought this up. I am impressed with the time and consideration you all gave my question.
We have very successful APA leagues here so there are plenty of players, especially 4's and 5's. Maybe we can come up with something that will bring them out.