what exactly is a taper roll ?

L

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
a couple of threads in wfs section and j-flos thread about his problem with his new pierce shaft got me to thinking about things.

j-flos you tube video showing him rolling his new shaft shows a wobble ..albeit a slight one. if you have looked at that video do you think it is acceptable ? would you call it a taper roll or a warp.? some said it was acceptable and one said he wishes his were that straight.

also what about butts ? i noticed in the wfs forum 2 south west cues for sale where the sellers said the butts were not straight. one said he got a loa from laurie and the wobble was within tolerance. the other said the nose rose up and that it was common with south west cues.

i am some what a newb when it comes to buying cues cpmpared to most of you...although i played in bars for over 30 years and played off the rack until i got my 1st cue 10 years ago i am gonna give my opinion any way. :grin-square:

i have mixed opinions about j-flos situation. his shaft does not really wobble and imo does not affect playability i don't think the shaft is acceptable.

here is why... the only cue i have ever bought that had a shaft that was warped like his was a meuccie. it did not affect play but it still bugged me until i straightened it out myself.

the southwests for sale.... to me paying over 3,000.00 and waiting 10 years for a cue with a warped butt is not acceptable at all.

so like i said those threads got me to thinking. .... out comes all my cues to check them.

here is what i found. most of my shafts have where you can see light under them in the middle of the shaft. when you roll them the light is consistent all the way around. in other words no part of the shaft gets closer to the table when you roll them.

2 shafts...my 10 year old viking and my unknown age phillippi completely lay flat top to bottom all the way around when you roll them.

one of mc dermott g-core shafts has a slight roll in the middle. you can see day light in one spot when you roll it but you cannot slip a dollar bill in there.

my 40.00 premier that i bought strictly to take to vegas last year is the same way as my g-core shaft.

every butt that i own lays completely flat and no wobbles at the joints.

after reading on here all the time about how production cues are inferior to custom cues as far as quality control.

after reading on here all the issues on here with custom cues.

after buying only one custom and about a dozen mid to high price production cues.

after checking all my cues...some which lay propped up against the wall in cases. some which sit in a wall mounted case. some which every week after a bunch of teenagers quit playing with them leave propped up against the wall until i get on there ass.


after all that i gotta say ...i must be the luckiest mf'er around when it comes to buying cues that were straight when i bought them and have stayed :grin-square:straight.
 
Taper roll is a wonderful thing. It explains why a cue rolls a little funny, butt or shaft. Of course if it is genuine taper roll that means the wood isn't warped, just that the taper isn't consistent all the way around the cue. Never been convinced that the inconsistent taper was OK but it sure was a great piece of marketing to sell people on "harmless taper roll"!

When I needed a shaft in a hurry for my old moochie I went to a big department store and looked through their few dozen or so dufferin two piece cues. Found a nice shaft and paid forty dollars for the butt and shaft. The cue played just fine and the shaft was a near perfect match on my moochie. The shaft played better than the noodle that came with the moochie originally, the one that developed a little bend to it over the years.

An inconsistent taper can make a cue appear to be warped. Only two things cause a cue, butt or shaft, to warp however. Stress or stress relief. One that has warped due to stress can usually be straightened successfully over a fairly long period of time. One that warped due to stress relief will probably always have a tendency to warp.

The shaft on my cue now is straight in the summer and very slightly warped in the winter, does it every year. South Louisiana! The only warps that really bug me are those between the bridge and tip and if it has a two directional warp in that area. I used to play off the wall all the time gambling and I often played with terribly warped sticks. Since they saw little use they often were the best sticks in the house.

Hu
 
'Search' is your friend. Btw, the expectation that a shaft you wish to play pool with being dead perfect 100% straight is senseless, as you are dealing with wood. Wood moves with climate changes and is very, very, very rarely perfectly straight, even when straight. If you can read this and understand, then YOU GET IT. If not, then you won't get it. Hope everyone is having a Happy 4th !! :)
 
Woodie

cueaddicts said:
'Search' is your friend. Btw, the expectation that a shaft you wish to play pool with being dead perfect 100% straight is senseless, as you are dealing with wood. Wood moves with climate changes and is very, very, very rarely perfectly straight, even when straight. If you can read this and understand, then YOU GET IT. If not, then you won't get it. Hope everyone is having a Happy 4th !! :)
Click to expand...

When I play with my shaft I often get a woodie. Its not 100% straight but does the job. Wife never complains about a slight taper roll.

Some nights i use the 4 inch extension, other the 2 inch will do just fine.

Ottt Ohhh. I think I posted this in the wrong forum.

Don :thumbup:
 
Basically, its a nice way of saying that the shaft on the cue that you are thinking of purchasing is Warped.

Beyond that, anyone that hand sands the shaft to final size runs the risk of having some sort of an uneven roll to the shaft.

Of course, there are varying degrees of Rolls. Slight, all the way to seriously warped.

About 25% of my shafts have a slight roll to them. Tip doesn't leave the table, yer good.
 
I thought it was warped only if the tip lifted off the table. So what if you see a little daylight moving under the rolling shaft
 
A dime, credit card height shouldn't bother anyone. Thats pretty common.

Even a bit more won't hurt a game. They can also flop pretty good without the tip leaving the table as well.
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
Basically, its a nice way of saying that the shaft on the cue that you are thinking of purchasing is Warped.

Beyond that, anyone that hand sands the shaft to final size runs the risk of having some sort of an uneven roll to the shaft.

Of course, there are varying degrees of Rolls. Slight, all the way to seriously warped.

About 25% of my shafts have a slight roll to them. Tip doesn't leave the table, yer good.
Click to expand...


Blue Hog nailed it...polite or not...a "taper roll" is a roll that is NOT "dead nuts" straight...no other explanation. I call em as I see em...same as Blue Hog. Either its straight...or NOT.
 
If you buy a cue that's new, it should lay flat.....if you buy a used cue, it may not.
How flat is acceptable is up to you. The cue butt should always lay flat and without wobble.
The shaft should always be wobble free and the flatter it lays, the better.

But don't be concerned if there's a "little" daylight under the shaft as long as it never varies when rolled.
And the daylight space, i.e., should very minimal but the length of the taper has a lot to do with its look.
The true problem is when there's irregularity in the shaft taper from improper sanding of the shaft as BHR said.

Sean nailed it about wood being subject to change and the only way to avoid problems is to be careful
how you store and where you leave your cues. We're having a heat wave in Fresno; Friday was 107, today was
104, same tomorrow and Mon & Tues it's supposed to be 108. The 10 day forecast is for 100 degrees or better
everyday and so it doesn't take long to screw up a pool cue in that kind of weather.....even during shipping of a cue.

Matt B.
 
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I am so goddanged confused about this.

I just bought a cue - a 1950s Brunswick - and it has a huge taper roll, but no roll when viewed from the top.

I can't decide whether it's junk, or whether it's my baby. Where is Herman Rambow when you need him???
 
I haven't read through this entire old thread again so I'll take a swing at really explaining taper roll. If a shaft is turned down properly on a lathe it is almost impossible to get taper roll. However, if someone sands a shaft down lengthwise of the shaft then the two soft sides of the shaft tend to sand faster than the hard sides or perhaps the person sanding focuses too much on one side. Now one or two sides have a dip, or perhaps the other side(s) have a lump from not having as much wood removed.

Now you have the infamous taper roll. Southwest selling people on the idea that taper roll isn't a flaw is one of the most amazing pieces of marketing I have seen! I don't want a shaft with taper roll, a butt either for that matter. It should be obvious once a taper roll is understood that a skilled craftsman can fix one. However, there is at least a possibility that straightening out a taper roll may result in a warp that is far harder to fix on a permanent basis. This isn't likely but has to be at least mentioned. Wood can have hidden stresses in it. Cutting away wood can cause these stresses to warp the remaining wood.

The last time I looked there was a video on youtube of a skilled craftsman building a one piece snooker cue including taking the cue from square to round and tapering it, all by hand. Watching that video should show how someone less skilled could not taper the butt and shaft area evenly creating taper roll.

Hopefully this explains taper roll and everyone can decide for themselves how big of a flaw it is and if they want to try to deal with it. As cheaply as dial and digital calipers can be had now I would check for taper roll with a dial or digital caliper if a cue doesn't roll evenly. I usually use a newer bank note wrapped over the shaft to avoid marring it while measuring but any piece of paper would work as well.

Hu
 
As long as the shaft is true, i.e., straight, then you can deliver the tip where you aim it.
Obviously no one wants a shaft with taper roll (inconsistent shaft diameter) and the
degree largely determines the price and desirability of the pool cue in the resale market.

When you are dealing with cues 10-15-20 yrs old or older, some taper roll is not unusual.
You’ll find most pool players don’t know how, or don’t agree, how to confirm if there’s any.
Slight taper roll isn’t like using Kentucky windage on the cue ball. The tip lands where you aim.
 
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