What Happened to Justin Bergman?

jay helfert said:
A lot of truth here about the difficulty of making a living playing pool. After the top ten or twelve players there are a bunch of players who grind out a living giving lessons, selling merchandise/running a pro shop, being a house pro, and yes playing in the regional tournaments where they can pick up a thou or two for a good finish with less expense incurred.

Then there are the guys who wise up and see how well the owners/operators of the rooms they are playing in are doing, and the good living they are making. They drive nice cars and live in their own homes. Some of these players then aspire to have a room of their own. That phenomena has been going on as long as I've been around the game. I was one of those guys a long time ago, trying to grind out a living playing $5 and $10 9-Ball and $20 One Pocket. That gets old quick and for me it all changed at the age of 27 when I bought my first poolroom. I never wanted to go looking for games again. Let them come to me!

I see where Joey Gray just opened up his new room and I wish him the best of luck. Even in this computer age he will do well if he runs his business properly. It is people like Joey who aren't afraid to build a brand new poolroom who will keep our game alive. If you have such ambition I say go for it! Do not believe all the naysayers who say it cannot be done. It can! And no, you don't have to own the building. That is another fallacy that is foisted on you. There is ample vacant space and willing landlords who own the space that will accommodate you. The key is to get a good lease, where you control the space for a long period of time, long enough to build a good business and can make a nice living for a number of years. Five to ten years in a profitable poolroom and you will be in a good place financially.

A good lease will number one allow you some free time (at least three months) to set up and build out your business before you begin to pay rent. Number two the landlord will help you with things like installing restrooms and a proper kitchen set up. They may even remove obstructions inside the space to accommodate your pool tables. A good lease should be anywhere from ten to fifteen years long and broken up into renewable options at a set price. For instance I had one lease on a 7,200 square foot building that was five years long, with two additional five year options. I could have that place for fifteen years before needing to renew my lease. That was a strong lease! My last lease at Hollywood Park was three years with 2 three year options, so I was good for nine years which was very acceptable to me. One other thing to be aware of is who is responsible for maintenance of the building. Typically the landlord is responsible for anything outside the walls, including the roof and everything on top of it, like AC and heating equipment. You do not want the responsiblility of maintaining this equipment! Everything else inside the building is your responsibility, like electrical outlets, interior plumbing, etc.

I like seeing some of the current generation of players who have been around awhile, who have the ambition to start their own business. Pool is not going away, but we need ambitious people to keep it alive and well. These guys and gals who are in their 30's and 40's now are the perfect age to start their own business. They have both experience and youth going for them. They have seen what a successful room looks like and have an idea what to do. So once again I say go for it! It will not be easy, there is a lot of hard work and long hours involved, but it will be worth it when you see your bank account grow.
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Hatch, selling used cars is a good example of what the road of hard knocks will do, and redirect Some.
 
Positively Ralf said:
BTW, let's not forget that this is not only about Bergman. There are plenty of pro speed players in this country that do not pursue pro pool some of the others do. Dechaine, Sossei and Pinegar come to mind. Those guys are rock solid in everything they do but have decided not to get after it, which is fine and noone should question their decisions.
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Pinegar can't play in several places because of his attitude. Mike too I'd guess.
And to be accurate, Henny ain't in Mike's class, neither is Sossei. Although Sossei is nice person.
 
maha said:
its all about the money and the payouts. they are top heavy and only a select few walk away with the cash.
the rest are there for their ego. a couple thousand winnings for a trip isnt enough to pay the bills and leave your pocket well off.
and that is the crumbs left for the great players that arent in the top ten of the tournaments.
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Think about this too.
The majority of money if you aren't playing the pro events is in the calcutta.
Your nut before you even break the balls is ridiculous.
Imagine being Fedor, Alex, Filler, Kristina, Shane, etc. going for 4k, 10k, 15k and going out.
 
Poolplaya9 said:
One of the best written posts in quite a while. And we hear this argument a lot, but from what I've seen the evidence doesn't really back it up as even low level pros have pretty decent quality of life unless they are incredibly irresponsible.

As just a few examples what I see is that they can afford to buy pool halls, eat out all the time (and not cheap fast food either), play lots of golf or have other expensive hobbies, and you could go on and on. They are far from having the lifestyle of the poor. Half of America couldn't afford to buy a pool hall, or even manage to get the financing or backing for one either. Half of America can't afford to be constantly participating in expensive hobbies like golf. Half of America can't afford to be eating out all the time. You aren't hurting too bad if you are eating out every day and playing golf several times a week I can promise you, yet there are low level pros doing just that and equivalent.

I think one of the big mistakes we make is that we only want to count their income from the majors and ignore the rest of their income and income opportunities. They do or can make money from tons of available events from the local to the regional to the national level, teaching, having sponsors, gambling (and their opponents often even intentionally take the worst of it just for the opportunity to play a pro and in deference to them), running tournaments/tours/leagues, being a house pro, etc, and they also get a lots and lots of things for free or bought for them or given to them simply because they are a pro (everything from food and drinks to to trips).

All of these things are available (or much more available and/or on better terms) simply because of their playing ability and are part of the "compensation package" that must be considered, just like how with every other job you have to take the value of the "total compensation package" to include all the extra bonuses and perks into consideration and not just look at the "base pay" from the few majors (and yes of course you have to factor in expenses as well). Tony Robles in an interview recently said that he has lived a good quality of life and has never once struggled to pay a bill, and as most know he would be considered to be a lower level pro. All the pros with some work ethic and responsibility seem to live at least half decent lives from what I can tell, and those opportunities were afforded to them because of their playing level even if their income didn't all come directly as winnings in major events. Most aren't rich (although some have done incredibly well), but few or none would have to be out of the middle class either.
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Hey Poolplaya, thanks for the reply.

I agree a lot of pool players live it up a little. They don't work, they are traveling around, eating out all the time, and doing whatever they want. The thing is that many of them don't have anything to their name. It's called living like a millionaire when you're flat broke.

Most of these full time players don't own their own home. They live with family or with a girlfriend, or rent someone's basement bedroom for $200 a month. (What do you call a pool player who breaks up with his girlfriend? Homeless.) Many don't have children to support. They aren't paying taxes or saving for retirement or investing. They have everything they own in a bankroll that fluctuates from a few thousand or even a few tens of thousands, all the way down to zero. Sometimes they run it up, sometimes they bust out and have to borrow, then they go negative for a bit, then they bink a tournament or a gambling score and pay it off. But at the end of the day they have not much to show for their efforts.

All that is fine if you want to avoid the responsibility of a job and just live a party on the road lifestyle, but they are sacrificing any type of ability to provide for themselves or anyone else beyond food and clothes.

Now, as for opening pool rooms or teaching. Look. I am a full time pool instructor. I also compete in pro events. Am I a pro pool player? No. I am a pro coach that competes in pro events. If someone has a big facebook following and they blog their tournament progress for thousands of views and get enough sponsor money to eat while busting out of pro tournament after pro tournament, are they a pro pool player? Or are they a professional blogger that plays in pro events? I think that if you have to use your pool reputation to attract attention to another business you have to run and operate then you didn't exactly make it as a pro tournament player.

As for the pool rooms, most of these players are being backed into a pool room by an investor who gives a slice to the pro player to use their reputation and enlist them as a house pro. Not many players use tournament winnings to invest in real estate. Archer may have, but he is a player of the decade. You don't see Jeremy Sossei winning 100K in a tournament to open a room.

Finally, I don't believe that semi-pro players can pick up thousands and thousands locally and regionally on a month to month basis. Sure, you might have a month where you win 3-4K, but that is a big score. Many months you are going to go dry on finding good tournaments or you'll bust out (expenses are a beast). So some months you might only win 1K, or heaven forbid make a bad game and go backwards. It's really easy to look at the 2-3 months a year a player scores 3-4K and think they are making 50K annually, but if you average it out it's probably 1-2K a month. Again, good enough to rent someone's basement and eat Taco Bell or live with a girlfriend and not pay child support.

In short- if you sacrifice raising children, buying a home, and preparing for the future, and just want to make enough to get to the next tournament, yes, you can 'make a living'. If you want to include people who teach, sell cues, and act as house pros at pool rooms, yes, I guess that's a living. But if you're talking about tournament players who earn enough in competition alone to provide a reasonable lifestyle you are down to like 7 people in the world. 820 Fargo Rate or need not apply.
 
Tin Man said:
Hey Poolplaya, thanks for the reply.

I agree a lot of pool players live it up a little. They don't work, they are traveling around, eating out all the time, and doing whatever they want. The thing is that many of them don't have anything to their name. It's called living like a millionaire when you're flat broke.

Most of these full time players don't own their own home. They live with family or with a girlfriend, or rent someone's basement bedroom for $200 a month. (What do you call a pool player who breaks up with his girlfriend? Homeless.) Many don't have children to support. They aren't paying taxes or saving for retirement or investing. They have everything they own in a bankroll that fluctuates from a few thousand or even a few tens of thousands, all the way down to zero. Sometimes they run it up, sometimes they bust out and have to borrow, then they go negative for a bit, then they bink a tournament or a gambling score and pay it off. But at the end of the day they have not much to show for their efforts.

All that is fine if you want to avoid the responsibility of a job and just live a party on the road lifestyle, but they are sacrificing any type of ability to provide for themselves or anyone else beyond food and clothes.

Now, as for opening pool rooms or teaching. Look. I am a full time pool instructor. I also compete in pro events. Am I a pro pool player? No. I am a pro coach that competes in pro events. If someone has a big facebook following and they blog their tournament progress for thousands of views and get enough sponsor money to eat while busting out of pro tournament after pro tournament, are they a pro pool player? Or are they a professional blogger that plays in pro events? I think that if you have to use your pool reputation to attract attention to another business you have to run and operate then you didn't exactly make it as a pro tournament player.

As for the pool rooms, most of these players are being backed into a pool room by an investor who gives a slice to the pro player to use their reputation and enlist them as a house pro. Not many players use tournament winnings to invest in real estate. Archer may have, but he is a player of the decade. You don't see Jeremy Sossei winning 100K in a tournament to open a room.

Finally, I don't believe that semi-pro players can pick up thousands and thousands locally and regionally on a month to month basis. Sure, you might have a month where you win 3-4K, but that is a big score. Many months you are going to go dry on finding good tournaments or you'll bust out (expenses are a beast). So some months you might only win 1K, or heaven forbid make a bad game and go backwards. It's really easy to look at the 2-3 months a year a player scores 3-4K and think they are making 50K annually, but if you average it out it's probably 1-2K a month. Again, good enough to rent someone's basement and eat Taco Bell or live with a girlfriend and not pay child support.

In short- if you sacrifice raising children, buying a home, and preparing for the future, and just want to make enough to get to the next tournament, yes, you can 'make a living'. If you want to include people who teach, sell cues, and act as house pros at pool rooms, yes, I guess that's a living. But if you're talking about tournament players who earn enough in competition alone to provide a reasonable lifestyle you are down to like 7 people in the world. 820 Fargo Rate or need not apply
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Tin man, you hit the nail on the head here. Well done sir.
 
Jay, you are right about pool not going anywhere. But, in California it's tough to get leases with the right square footage and price with parking to get going then to build the business. Case in point, in LA we don't have not one pool room in a ten mile radius of downtown LA. I own my building up in Ventura and I'm fine but I got lucky to get it. All of my cohorts are leasing and their rent is high and it's passed on to their customers. It's not uncommon to see rates for two players at $20/hr. Well, try to learn to play pool out here at those prices. Maybe in the midwest of south you can get better rates but not on the west coast.
 
With the current vacating situation in the Bay area, something may happen. I know in our area, it was easy to find/pick/lease on your terms due to Covid/Closing many good properties.
 
maha said:
if his decision is about the money he is spot on.
you can get a day job and make 60 to a hundred thousand a year and not have to travel and pay your own way.
and only a few with a good year do that.

those that cant. think missing out on coming in the money in tournaments means something. it doesnt.
even if the tournament is driving distance away.

you should applaud him for finding his way in life that is to his liking. he isnt here on earth to entertain other pool players.
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Does he have a job making 100k a year?

Dechaine sells Anderson windows.
 
Baby Huey said:
Jay, you are right about pool not going anywhere. But, in California it's tough to get leases with the right square footage and price with parking to get going then to build the business. Case in point, in LA we don't have not one pool room in a ten mile radius of downtown LA. I own my building up in Ventura and I'm fine but I got lucky to get it. All of my cohorts are leasing and their rent is high and it's passed on to their customers. It's not uncommon to see rates for two players at $20/hr. Well, try to learn to play pool out here at those prices. Maybe in the midwest of south you can get better rates but not on the west coast.
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Impossible to open a pool room in 98% of la.

Not a viable economic idea.

So we have no rooms.

And if someone was dumb enough to open a room, nobody living here would remember/know what a pool room is. Biz would be slow-even in the best location with the best equipment. Pool is finished in LA period. If it wasn’t I’d have opened a room years ago. I’ve discussed this with Jay several times. It just isn’t a option

Best
Fatboy
 
FeelDaShot said:
Whatever happened to Justin Bergman? He was very active before the pandemic and now he seems to be non-existent. What's the story here?
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I think a simple explanation is to the OP.

Time....Money.
IE, it's not worth it.

Pool players are generally not Rich $$$.
Cept maybe Pete Margo and.... Terry Bell.
 
if you use pool to be the end of things for you it spells doom.
if you use it as a stepping stone to move on to bigger things then is is a great springboard.

but if not smart or enterprising enough to try and better yourself then its off to the lumberyard looking for an hourly pay job.
 
Fatboy said:
Impossible to open a pool room in 98% of la.

Not a viable economic idea.

So we have no rooms.

And if someone was dumb enough to open a room, nobody living here would remember/know what a pool room is. Biz would be slow-even in the best location with the best equipment. Pool is finished in LA period. If it wasn’t I’d have opened a room years ago. I’ve discussed this with Jay several times. It just isn’t a option

Best
Fatboy
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There’s a reason Oscar moved to Sacramento to become a room owner.
 
Don't matter the game or the level of play.

There's only 3 guys in a pool tournament who are supposed to win.
 
SBC said:
Does he have a job making 100k a year?

Dechaine sells Anderson windows.
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If an 801 Fargo rated player is selling windows for a living, doesn't that tell us all we need to know?

Do any of us really think he wouldn't prefer to spend his days at the pool table?
 
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Woodshaft said:
The true pro players (make a living off winnings alone) are the shortstops who stay in a local area and basically get "paid" by wanna-be-shortstop guys with money. And there are A LOT of these fat-walleted, egotistical amateurs in certain cities.
So yes, shortstops (guys with about fargo 675+ skill) can make 1 to 2k weekly or more (a living) if they entertain the right clientele, but you definitely have to have the social skills to pull it off.
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This. I've personally contributed to many high 600 guys bankroll over the years. I can think of a couple that probably make 80k gambling low stakes. Few hundred a night adds up when it's every night. That said there's easier ways to make 100k. And it's not just about social skills. You need a high tolerance for bullshit and a way to sneak out of a hostile environment.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk
 
VIProfessor said:
If an 801 Fargo rated player is selling windows for a living, doesn't that tell us all we need to know?

Do any of really think he wouldn't prefer to spend his days at the pool table?
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Why? The man is doing real work. Helping people and getting paid. You make it sound like a sales job should be seen as some sort of lesser career.
 
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