What has happened to quality at Schon?

[Buzzard II]

So because of this thread I checked my ten year old STL 9, and no the rings did not match up. Understandable since the rings are different sizes. But the rings are also not matched to the box design next to it. That's shabby.

As to off center pins I have one cue, a McDermott Hustler M11 B with a offset pin. The shaft is also offset so they screw together just fine. I know I can never put a different shaft on it, of any brand or size. I have thought of sending it back but don't want them to mess it up even more. The cue plays great and as a Sneaky it's the absolute sneakiest. I am disappointed in the workmanship. It never should have gone out.

 

[brilliance]

hi

I noticed that if I test hit 5 different Schon cues there is a big chance that they would play differently. I love older models hit way more.

Also I think that Mezz was always better in all aspects except outlook.

 

[CGM]

Mezz quality is just way better in my opinion.

 

[jimmyg]

How times, people, and business customer service, have changed. :frown:

I would have imagined that any company worth their salt being discussed in this manner, especially on an industry specific website such as this, someone, perhaps even it's president, would have chimed in by now...perhaps to offer an explanation or, even better, a solution. :shakehead:

 

[West Point 1987]

I thought this was an acme thread?

As far as I know, no...the Acme pin they used in 1993 (and mine is a 1993, with Schon lettering on the shaft collars) is as shown, with the extruding end. My Schon shafts have a corresponding shallower insert, so won't fit on a standard 5/16x14 pin (too long), but any 5/16x14 shaft will fit just fine on this pin (I shoot with a Gulyassy shaft on this pin, no problem).

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

The proof is in the pudding and an off center pin is a big flaw.....no excuses allowed for "any" cue-maker.
Really, that's so rank amateurish that it seems ludicrous to imagine how the cue was ever released with
such pitifull workmanship, presuming of course this is all true but Shawn may in fact be onto something.

Instead of crticizing Schon, or John, based upon just word of mouth, Shawn should post closeup pictures
of these blatant flaws with the Schon cues he recently picked up. He should also include side by side photos
of the off center pin laying right next to a properly placed pin in another Schon cue. Everyone can then see &
judge how bad this is. My gosh, what kind of quality control is there or better yet, when was it lost?

The anatomy of a pool cue is important and if a cue-maker does not take the time to inspect the cue prior
to sending it to a enthusiastic customer, then the cue-maker does not really care much about their reputation.
So if that's how it's gonna be, a customer has every right to blast & crticize the cue-maker since he won't care.
If he'll ship a cue with a flaw that a blind person could detect, he's just not worried much what people think....right?

How about ascertaining whether this was a fluke or is this representative of some quality problems at Schon?
Shawn, maybe you should survey the Forum about Schon quality problems post Bob & Evan cue-making eras?
Dean was right about not throwing stones at someone's livelihood; at the same time, the truth is worth knowing.


Matt B.

Tell you what. I will make a video tomorrow and post to YouTube. Everyone can take a look.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

As far as I know, no...the Acme pin they used in 1993 (and mine is a 1993, with Schon lettering on the shaft collars) is as shown, with the extruding end. My Schon shafts have a corresponding shallower insert, so won't fit on a standard 5/16x14 pin (too long), but any 5/16x14 shaft will fit just fine on this pin (I shoot with a Gulyassy shaft on this pin, no problem).

It isn't an ACME pin. That's the slang term that was mistakenly given to that particular joint. You're talking about the one piece concentric joint they used. It wasn't exclusive to 1993. They made cues with it well after that. The joint collar and threaded pin are machined from one piece of stainless steel.

 

[Celophanewrap]

Here you go!
View attachment 506214

I have a Schon with that pin. I purchased it in late 1993 or early 1994. Love that cue.
A couple of years ago I had the chance to show it to Evan Clark. He told me that he
was the one that made that cue and that he was the only one at Schon that used that
pin and that it is not an Acme pin (or thread). It's just a 5/16 X 14 with a machined end.

Anyways, I was looking at the original question posed by the OP in the first post calling
into question the quality of today's Schons. To me, at first thought, the answer was
simple, no more Evan Clark.

I believe that's about the time that the subject of the quality first came up. But several things
changed about then, the level of customer service also seemed to dip some as well. Prior to
that when I was thinking of buying a Schon I could email or call and get some answers, after
that there was a $10 Q & A charge.

Maybe the quality control people changed, or they decided to manufacture more faster and
broughtin people that were business people and necessarily pool people. I dunno, but whatever
it was the cues were noticeably different, at least to me, so I never bought another one.
I did buy a couple of Segens. I like them, but neither plays like the first Schon

 

[simco]

It isn't an ACME pin. That's the slang term that was mistakenly given to that particular joint. You're talking about the one piece concentric joint they used. It wasn't exclusive to 1993. They made cues with it well after that. The joint collar and threaded pin are machined from one piece of stainless steel.

Thanks for the insight and the good info.I don't think a standard 60 degree internal
thread will fit any acme external thread,regardless of size.

 

[simco]

Thanks to celophanewrap also for the good and helpful info.:grin:

 

[simco]

Tell you what. I will make a video tomorrow and post to YouTube. Everyone can take a look.

I am very interested in seeing this,throw an indicator on this and show how much
this runs out. Any run out at all is not good workmanship.Jmho
Thanks in advance for the effort put forth.:thumbup:

 

[West Point 1987]

It isn't an ACME pin. That's the slang term that was mistakenly given to that particular joint. You're talking about the one piece concentric joint they used. It wasn't exclusive to 1993. They made cues with it well after that. The joint collar and threaded pin are machined from one piece of stainless steel.

My pin is not machined with the joint...it's separate and set in the wood, the joint collar is separate.

 

[West Point 1987]

I have a Schon with that pin. I purchased it in late 1993 or early 1994. Love that cue.
A couple of years ago I had the chance to show it to Evan Clark. He told me that he
was the one that made that cue and that he was the only one at Schon that used that
pin and that it is not an Acme pin (or thread). It's just a 5/16 X 14 with a machined end.

Anyways, I was looking at the original question posed by the OP in the first post calling
into question the quality of today's Schons. To me, at first thought, the answer was
simple, no more Evan Clark.

I believe that's about the time that the subject of the quality first came up. But several things
changed about then, the level of customer service also seemed to dip some as well. Prior to
that when I was thinking of buying a Schon I could email or call and get some answers, after
that there was a $10 Q & A charge.

Maybe the quality control people changed, or they decided to manufacture more faster and
broughtin people that were business people and necessarily pool people. I dunno, but whatever
it was the cues were noticeably different, at least to me, so I never bought another one.
I did buy a couple of Segens. I like them, but neither plays like the first Schon

I agree...my Schon plays exceptionally. Everyone that has tried that cue just looks down at it dumbfounded. A beautiful hit, nothing quite like it. As much as I love my other cues (-R-, Gulyassy, Joss, GEM) I keep coming back to my Schon.

 

[higgsfield]

Dean, have you heard anything from Schon yet? I'm going to say you haven't. I'm torn between sending it to John, or following my gut and sending it to Bob Dzuricky to have the job done right. If I haven't heard from you regarding your connection at Schon by weeks end, I'll send to Bob. I have a hanky feeling in my gut that things have headed in a downward direction at a once reputable company.

I realize this is an old thread, but did you end up sending it back to Schon and did they get the pin properly centered? I have the exact same issue with my Schon.

I bought a brand new Schon from Seyberts a few years ago. The shaft it came with mated perfectly and rolled true. A few months after owning it, I purchased a brand new OB Classic+ with a Schon joint. The OB shaft never fit quite right. Both the shaft and butt rolled true separately, but there was a noticeable wobble when together. I played with this wobble for years believing the issue must have been the OB shaft even though it had a Schon joint. Fast forward to 2 months ago, I replaced the OB with a Jacoby Black carbon fiber shaft. Unlike the OB shaft, the Jacoby rolls true when attached to the butt. However, I noticed the Jacoby shaft isn't perfectly centered against the butt. It is very noticeably off centered and upon further inspection, the issues related to both shafts are due to an off-centered pin on the Schon.

I emailed Schon about this issue a few weeks ago and did not get a reply. I am now debating whether I should continue trying to contact Schon about properly centering the pin or finding someone to get the job done locally.

 

[muskyed]

I bought a Schon SP from Seyberts last year, and later purchased a Jacoby Ultra shaft for it from Seyberts, with the Schon piloted joint, fits perfectly, and rolls absolutly true. Quality of the SP that I got from Seyberts was superb. I would love to find another one similar to the one I got, but it's tough finding Schons with leather.

 

[Logandgriff]

I sent a Schon STL-3 back to Schon for a refinish in 2020. Schon estimated an eight week turnaround and a very reasonable price. I got the cue back in under four weeks. I was uncertain if it was really my cue since the one I got from Schon looked brand new. The distinctive weight bolt seems to indicate that it was in fact mine but again the cue looked absolutely brand new. Initially I had a little trouble screwing the shaft onto the butt so I called Schon. Five minutes later Mr. Romine called me back and told me to swab the insert with a Q-tip (not a cue tip). Problem solved.

So the cue is great, and the customer service was superb. No issues whatsoever. Rating A+.

 

[tim913]

Fellas
fellas

Schon is a great company,famous for quality

I was very close to Bob Runde(still am)
then I had a great relationship with evan Clark ,I quit when he left

No particular reaso,John was a very friendly person 2nd in command with over 15 years cue making

He studied under the masters Terry,Bob and Evan

Recently I got back in touch with Schon,I just ordered 12 shafts and 3 cues,I wanted to order 30 high end cues but John turned down my business because he had too many obligations tohis existing customers

I bet the quality is the same as before,people talked this way when Runde left,Evan was possibly the best cue maker in the country but he lived in the shadow of Bob Runde.

I remember when the fans booed Mickey Mantle when Di Maggio retired


Now John is in charge,he is as good as the others,lets not lose faith or worse destroy a well earned reputation over rumor etc

so what if a guy has a cue with something wrong from a good maker,it happens
But my bet is that they will make it right

I know because John made a mistake on one of my orders,I brought it to his attention
and he took care of it right away

I have had troubles with a Barry wrap,he fixed it,even Larry Vigus sent me a cue with a finish problem
(now he is the best in the world with finish ),he fixed it >Mistakes occur

For my money schon is still one of the very best cue makers in the world

in fact I am playing one now

One thing about pool players,they love to find fault,whine and blame.
Lets not be quick to jump on Schon,why try to ruin a good man like John,
he is one of the best cue makers I have ever known

Better than Runde or Clark?
No

But in their league,and that, my friends, is"The Major Leagues "

Weird how in one post you ask pool players not to bash a great company and at the same time bash ALL pool players as whiners, loving to find fault and blame. Just saying

 

[higgsfield]

Just wanted to update anyone reading this thread in the future regarding my issue. The gentleman I spoke to at Schon believes the issue is more likely to be a bent pin than an uncentered one. I will be sending the cue to them to address the problem. Whether it is a bent pin or an uncentered one, I was told it will be fixed.

To sum, as everyone knows, they make great cues. It is comforting to also know they will stand behind their product. I just wanted to make sure my previous post does not cause anyone to hesitate in buying a Schon.

 

[Bavafongoul]

I am fortunate to have had my Schon built by Bob Runde when Schon was just starting out.
If I knew then what I know now, I’d have had the butt made a little thinner and make the butt
a lot lighter too. Despite that I changed to using lighter cues, my Schon plays shockingly good.
It doesn’t use the joint I changed to & it’s almost 2 ozs. more than my others but it plays sweet.