What I would do if I was elected President of the UPA

[poolmouse]

Poolmouse, the website is www.upatour.com if you want to find out more information. It is not updated on a frequent basis, but it may provide some help.
______________


I got the PM, Robert Lipson, and I am going to follow through.

I welcome the opportunity to find out why the UPA has prohibited the Five Banned Players from UPA-sanctioned events and allows every other pool player in the world to attend by paying a $25 fee.

Your willingness to engage in a dialogue is appreciated.

ManlyShot

ManlyShot,

Thanks, I did see the website (nice website, by the way). But the information I was interested in isn't there which is why I'm curious about why an organization with a board of directors hasn't clearly posted the official organization's bylaws.

Is the UPA a for-profit or non-profit organization? What's the UPA's tax status? How much does the UPA have in the bank? Expenses? Income? Are 1099's issued annually to members who win? I assume there are monthly board meetings...where are the notes outlining the agenda, including the monthly treasurer report, agenda items, etc. for the last meeting...was there a meeting this month? Last month? Board meetings are necessary (and in most cases legally required, depending on how the organization is structured) so members can be kept abreast of club/organization matters.

Given all the controversy surrounding the "banning" of certain high level players by a board member (or board members) who is/are professional player(s)...I'm not saying there's a conflict of interest...there are some unanswered questions.

I'm interested in the structure of the UPA with respect to who's calling the shots? Is Charlie Williams making decisions without a board vote? Is the board making decisions without a membership vote (which is usually allowed if stated in the bylaws, in which case a specific number of members can force the board to hold a membership vote where a majority vote would overturn a board decision)?

Where is the list of board positions outlining the role/responsibility of each elected position? When and how are elections held? Is there a treasurer? Is there a secretary? Is there a public relations person (I assume he/she would be here if the position existed)?

I can go on....

Just curious about whether the UPA are holding themselves accountable to their own members. I served three terms on the NYCC board of directors (New York Cycle Club..a 1500 member strong club that's been around more than 50 years; http://nycc.org) so I'm curious...is the UPA following it's own rules? How would members (or the public...or the IRS) know if the UPA organization doesn't have a clearly defined set of bylaws openly posted? The NYCC is a non-profit organization and the club members elect the board members...board members don't elect themselves.

Don't get me wrong...I think it's great to have one organization that fights for it's members...but without a set of bylaws, the door is open to...well...I won't go there.

Check out the NYCC bylaws (carefully rewritten more than 20 years ago) to get an idea of what I'm talking about:

http://www.nycc.org/pdf/bylaws.pdf


PoolMouse

 

[manlyshot]

Thanks, I did see the website (nice website, by the way). But the information I was interested in isn't there which is why I'm curious about why an organization with a board of directors hasn't clearly posted the official organization's bylaws.

I have trouble finding current information on the website myself, Poolmouse.

I'm interested in the structure of the UPA with respect to who's calling the shots? Is Charlie Williams making decisions without a board vote? Is the board making decisions without a club vote (which is usually allowed if stated in the bylaws, in which case members can request a membership vote where a majority vote would overturn a board decision). Where is the list of board positions which outlines each person's role/responsibilities? When and how are elections held? I can go on....

It's almost like the Wizard of Oz, and you never know who will appear from behind the curtain.

Don't get me wrong...I think it's great to have one organization that fights for it's members...but without a set of bylaws, the door is open to...well...I won't go there.

It ain't a pretty sight from my window, but I definitely agree that is would be great to have one men's pool organization fighting for its members. To date, the UPA has not presented this image.

Any sound organization has bylaws, such as the ones you so kindly provided, the NYCC bylaws. You seem to have a little expertise in this area and make some valid points. If bylaws were in force this past year, I don't think I would be writing in this thread about the UPA.

ManlyShot

 

[manlyshot]

Given all the controversy surrounding the "banning" of certain high level players by a board member (or board members) who is/are professional player(s)...I'm not saying there's a conflict of interest...there are some unanswered questions.

Poolmouse, you have hit the nail right on the head. The question of the Five Banned Players is still unanswered. It is incredulous that it could have even happened (IMO).

ManlyShot

 

[manlyshot]

Cardiac Kid, unless you have experienced the UPA thrashing, you would have no way of knowing why I post in this thread.

You should cast your vote, though, to be fair, in that poll, "What is your opinion on the United Poolplayers Association (UPA)?"

1. The players need a better contract.
2. They're only in it for themselves.
3. They'll be fine once Charlie Williams steps down.
4. They're destroying any chance the men might have.
5. The UPA is definitely a good thing.
6. What does UPA stand for again?

You may be surprised which number I voted for, Cardiac Kid, but I know which number you will vote for.

ManlyShot

I forgot to tell you where to cast your vote, Cardiac Kid. The website is www.insidepool.com and it represents a way for all to voice their opinions in a blind vote.

ManlyShot

 

[poolmouse]

I forgot to tell you where to cast your vote, Cardiac Kid. The website is www.insidepool.com and it represents a way for all to voice their opinions in a blind vote.

ManlyShot

I pick #6...at least until bylaws are written, voted and approved by it's members.

Charlie, if you're reading this...you're in a very strong position to make this happen but you MUST empower the members to decide the direction of the organization...otherwise the UPA will find itself heading in a downward spiral and you, the members and the sport will have nothing but memories about what could have been.



PoolMouse

 

[cueball1950]

To JJINFLA

JJ, I can only go by what earl has told me and verified by Shannon Daulton as to where it happened. VA or FLA it still should not have happened. When you tell a player you will have his $$$$$$ at a certain time then you should have it and not make him wait any longer..........................................mike

 

[jjinfla]

Poolmouse, If the UPA won't post their officers on their website, you know, Pres, VP, Treas, Sec, Dir, then why would you expect them to post their by-laws? Or the contract that each player must sign?

I would think that the officers would be proud to have their names listed so that they can receive the recognition.

I do find it strange that the UPA did post the contract that some TD's signed. I would not think that should be public information.

There should be plenty of copies of the by-laws laying around. I would think that a player surely would want a copy of them before he signs the UPA contract.

 

[manlyshot]

If the UPA won't post their officers on their website, you know, Pres, VP, Treas, Sec, Dir, then why would you expect them to post their by-laws? Or the contract that each player must sign?

I would think that the officers would be proud to have their names listed so that they can receive the recognition.

The board of directors has a revolving door, and it may be hard to keep the website up to date because the officers keep changing, with the exception of Charlie Williams.

His picture is plastered all over the website, since he holds MULTIPLE positions, and he is proud to have his name listed so that he can receive the recognition.

All of these issues we are discussing NOW should have been considered at the inception of the UPA's creation, something a seasoned veteran would have had the wisdom and foresight to do. But it's water under the bridge, isn't it?

The board of directors needs to come forth with a public statement about the Five Banned Players. I think the pool public has a right to know, and I think Corey Deuel, Frankie Hernandez, Troy Frank, Keith McCready, and Earl Strickland, the very players who have been segregated by the UPA and placed in a UPA category of "touring pros" for the sole purpose of BANNING their participation, deserve an answer.

As an aside, I must say it is wonderful to see Earl Strickland traveling all over the world competing in tournaments every single week. It is ludicrous that this professional pool player is being discriminated against by his fellow countrymen here in the United States of America, but everybody else in the world welcomes his participation and wants him there.

ManlyShot

 

[poolmouse]

Poolmouse, If the UPA won't post their officers on their website, you know, Pres, VP, Treas, Sec, Dir, then why would you expect them to post their by-laws? Or the contract that each player must sign?

Hi jjinfla,

I'm actually only interested in the bylaws. Until we all read the bylaws (as voted on and approved by the founding members), all the other points are moot...just message board conversation.


PoolMouse

 

[H. Danielson]

I agree with a lot of things jjinfla had to say in his earlier post. An organization such as the UPA will never be a success as long as it is ran totally by pool players. The Board of Directors should include busnessmen, interested legal people, representatives of the billiard industry and last but not least player representatives.

Earl had every right to throw his UPA badge in the garbage when Charlie "the dictator" tried to keep him hanging around all day to get paid...once he was out of the tournament. If you are a Tournament Director or Promotor ask yourself one question...who would you rather showcase as a marquee player at your event Earl "the Pearl" , or Charlie Williams? I have a feeling you would get 100% in favor of the colorful billiard talent of Earl. I am sure Charlie has the best interest of the sport at heart but he lacks the skills involved in being the front man for an organization such as the UPA. If he did...the first thing he would do is attempt to make things right with Earl and possibly Corey. The other 3 banned players are really no loss. It takes a certain type of person to be President and represent any Board of Directors. The person must be professional, informed, charismatic and be able to take constructive criticism and recognize when things are getting off track. Learn by the mistakes which have been made and move on. At the very least the membership should demand an annual meeting complete with an election of officers according to the UPA by-Laws. If Charlie is elected President at least it will stop a lot of mud slinging about him being self appointed. He just seems to rub people the wrong way and his general manner is certainly not businesslike. He presents a cocky "my way or the highway" image and this is a real loss for the membership who want to improve their image for sponsorship and support.

 

[poolmouse]

At the very least the membership should demand an annual meeting complete with an election of officers according to the UPA by-Laws.

The UPA hasn't posted their bylaws so it's impossible to know what the board's responsibilities are...not to mention the UPA's tax status.


PoolMouse

 

[Skeezicks]

I would free all the pool slaves.

 

[manlyshot]

I agree with a lot of things jjinfla had to say in his earlier post. An organization such as the UPA will never be a success as long as it is ran totally by pool players. The Board of Directors should include busnessmen, interested legal people, representatives of the billiard industry and last but not least player representatives....the first thing he would do is attempt to make things right with Earl and possibly Corey. The other 3 banned players are really no loss.

Human beings act out of their images of others. Other dictatorships in our century demonstrate, unsettlingly, how it is possible for men with power to create an image of the enemy that enables human beings to believe that they are doing something good for the sport of pool by banning other pool players just because the pool players don't wan't to join the UPA.

It was Adolf Hitler who decided to kill all European Jews, but he never did it himself. He left it to others who again left it to others to do the killing. The crimes were legitimized through the religion that was created based on the Führer myth.

And the discrimination by the UPA is legitimized through the "touring pro" category that was created based on the UPA myth: Either sign a legally binding contract and join the UPA or be banned.

The Führer was a psychopath, but he nevertheless succeeded, with the help of others, to stage the world in a way that made reality match his own world view.

Discrimination stinks, and it doesn't matter if it is Earl Strickland or Charlie Williams or Joe Blow from New Orleans. All pool players are created equal, and if Joe Blow can play in a UPA-sanctioned event by paying $25, so should Earl Strickland, Frankie Hernandez, Corey Deuel, Keith McCready, and Troy Frank, the Five Banned Players.

Remember, even a hawk is an eagle among crows.

ManlyShot

 

[jjinfla]

Hey guys there is salvation for you pros in the near future.

Was at the Florida Men's Pro tour yesterday and met OB Osceola and John DiToro and I really believe that they have the foundation to really do great things for you guys and men's pool.

It is a well run tournament and everything is running smoothly. Had 39 entrants (more would have enterred but didn't qualify and Buddy Hall didn't know it started on Friday and showed up on Saturday). They are paying the top 24 finishers.

I think the players now see that 2004 is very promising. The Florida Tour will start up again in January and when word gets around to what John has created I look forward to seeing many more players jump on the band wagon.

I for one think we should all put the past behind us and start thinking positive about what will happen in 2004. Remember the good things of the past and build on that. Remember the bad things so that they are not repeated.

And I really don't see any division in the players. They really do get along well with each other and know that they all need each other to be successful. And Charlie Williams knows that too.

As I see it, all the players want is a venue where they can perform, compete, and earn a decent wage. Something that we all want.

Jake

 

[Ken in CT]

Jake
The UPA might be history. Their website seems to be gone. Since they continually have to remove documents when they change their rules I guess the simple way of dealing with that is to just shut the site down. If it starts up again it will be interesting to see what they have changed. Maybe they have finally recognized how vulnerable to lawsuits they are for violating their own rules so many times.

I should have stayed in FL for the tournament. I came back to CT thinking McCready, Rempe and Corr might be at the Joss in Berlin and they are not there. It's $5k added but only Santos, Jose and the usual suspects are there. Only 50 entries.
Ken

 

[manlyshot]

Hey guys there is salvation for you pros in the near future.

I for one think we should all put the past behind us and start thinking positive about what will happen in 2004. Remember the good things of the past and build on that. Remember the bad things so that they are not repeated.

And I really don't see any division in the players. They really do get along well with each other and know that they all need each other to be successful. And Charlie Williams knows that too.

As I see it, all the players want is a venue where they can perform, compete, and earn a decent wage. Something that we all want.

Jake

Is Charlie Williams REALLY aware that the Five Banned Players are entitled to perform, compete, and earn a decent wage?

ManlyShot

 

[manlyshot]

Maybe they have finally recognized how vulnerable to lawsuits they are for violating their own rules so many times.

Has the UPA recognized that the Five Banned Players are entitled to perform, compete, and earn a decent wage?

ManlyShot

 

[Ken in CT]

QUOTE:
One time event players can pay $25 temporary registration to play but not be eligible for points (This will make them an UPA official member but not a Touring Pro Point Earner)

Any individual can join and be officially a UPA member by paying $25 a year
END OF QUOTE


1. Can anyone tell me what the difference is between the above two paragraphs?

2. Can anyone see any possible reason why the word "an" should preceed "UPA"?

3. Is there any doubt that these paragraphs were not written by an attorney?

4. Is it clear that the UPA is violating their own rules by not allowing certain "touring pros" to play in their tournaments?

5. Is it any wonder that the site has disappeared?
Ken

 

[manlyshot]

Is it clear that the UPA is violating their own rules by not allowing certain "touring pros" to play in their tournaments?

Ken in CT, it is extremely CRYSTAL CLEAR.

ManlyShot

 

[manlyshot]

Hi Ken,

Who cares what is written in the UPA contract they have no tour
so I won't be paying any attention to them anyway. I think that all of you people who are not UPA members should stop obsessing over the UPA. Get some medical help for your mental state.

Do you really think with such political gaffs that the UPA won't go the way of the buffalo. LOL Just like cues and cue makers "easy come easy go" Take a drink and relax LOL

Cheers,

Gremlin

Gremlin, with all due respect, you are not affected by the UPA. It is currently banning pool players who cannot sign the UPA legally binding contract and placing a stranglehold on independent promoters to advance its platform.

Medical help won't help the mental state at this juncture, but there are other remedies that will.

Fortunately, for you as a pool enthusiast and fan of women's pool, the women's platform, even with the recent communications flop, seems to be gaining momentum and continues to receive positive recognition by the pool industry, manufacturers, media, and sponsors.

I enjoy reading your posts and appreciate the information that you disseminate on this forum. Without you, many of us wouldn't be able to appreciate the women's contributions to the sport.

The UPA isn't a buffalo, and neither are the Five Banned Players who are being deprived of earning a living, competing, and earning a decent wage in UPA-sanctioned events when Charlie Williams created the UPA "touring pro" category.

ManlyShot