What I would do if I was elected President of the UPA
- Thread starter jjinfla
- Start date
Ken in CT said:
They're probably reworking the site...a "whois" query shows they just reregistered the domain. Bad site planning, I guess.
Go to this site and enter "upatour.org":
http://www.internic.net/whois.html
On a side note, here's a clipping from my accountant's responce to my email regarding getting tax status on the UPA:
"Did you request the fiancial statements from the State Attorney General's Office or the IRS and attach the appropriate fee?"
PoolMouse
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Gremlin said:
Let's not forget Troy Frank and Frankie Hernandez.
According to the UPA contract under Terms of Contract, "The term of this contract is one-year from the date of execution and will automatically renew annually pursuant to Paragraph 1, and Paragraph 15 of this contract, unless Player notifies UPA in writing at least 30 days in advance of his/her intention not to renew said contract."
I see a "her" in the contract, Gremlin, and Sarah Ellerby is definitely good sponsor material.
Jean Balukas wasn't welcome in men's pool, wasn't welcome in women's pool, and packed up and left in disgust over the pool politics at that time. What a waste of natural talent (IMO), and nobody will ever know how powerful her game really was, except those who saw it for themselves.
Jean Balukas endured such political gaffs and became the buffalo, didn't she? Maybe if she received support, she would still be around today.
ManlyShot
Gremlin it is easy to say just forget the UPA and not go to their stops. But Manlyshot does have a point that it is not just the UPA tour stops that these players are being banned from it is any event that gets sanctioned by the UPA.
A private promoter sets up a tournament open to everyone and then finds out if he wants UPA players there then he has to be sanctioned by the UPA and agree to their terms and then he finds out that several name players will be banned.
It all depends on what the TD's are going to settle for in the future. If enough name players end up getting banned from a UPA event then what good will the UPA be to a TD? I am sure the TD's don't want to ban any of these players.
Only time will tell.
But I did notice that there were several UPA players who played in The Men's Pro Tournament this weekend and it is not a sanctioned event.
Jake
A private promoter sets up a tournament open to everyone and then finds out if he wants UPA players there then he has to be sanctioned by the UPA and agree to their terms and then he finds out that several name players will be banned.
It all depends on what the TD's are going to settle for in the future. If enough name players end up getting banned from a UPA event then what good will the UPA be to a TD? I am sure the TD's don't want to ban any of these players.
Only time will tell.
But I did notice that there were several UPA players who played in The Men's Pro Tournament this weekend and it is not a sanctioned event.
Jake
manlyshot said:
If the UPA converts to non-profit status and reorganizes it's structure to include a clear, publicly accessible set of bylaws and member elected board members, it has a chance of succeeding.
Non-profit status simply means at the end of the fiscal year, there is a zero-balance...meaning all income MUST be spent on tournaments, public relations, etc.
ELECTED board members ensure accountability to it's members (and enables ANY member to run for ANY position EVERY YEAR). This would eliminate any apparent conflict of interest. Banning a player would require certain steps to be followed. Members would have the right to force a membership vote to overturn any board action/decision the membership feels violates the bylaws.
The key here is the bylaws...so Jean's situation would have been handled differently.
Once the UPA is held accountable to it's members, it can forge ahead with the support it needs to succeed. I strongly disagree that a business person should run the organization...that would take control away from the members and would open the organization up to conflicts of interest. Having business sponsors, on the other hand, is desirable.
PoolMouse
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What would I do if I were president of the UPA?
Get rid of the current UPA and get a fresh start, a new organization, new administration.
Create the bylaws. After reading Poolmouse's posts, I realize how important the bylaws are to any organization.
Grandfather-in current UPA members to the newly created organization.
Cease and desist prohibiting the Five Banned Players from participation in sanctioned events.
Let the members vote and elect the president.
Create a tour, as Gremlin suggested.
Sanction independent events and offer a package that benefits independent promoters as well as the member organization.
Get rid of the legally binding, poorly written, unintelligible, self-serving, one-size-fits-all UPA contracts. If a membership contract is even warranted, it should be beneficial to the pool player as well as the member organization.
Seek business sponsors for their input, enabling the member organization to be a friendly liaison.
Keep the member organization website updated on a regular basis and respond to e-mails and phone calls in a timely manner.
Let the pool players be pool players and not call the shots when it comes to player selection for WPC and other prominent tournaments. The member organization needs a decision-maker who is not biased and is fair and neutral.
Contact the appropriate authorities to make the member organization politically correct with IRS, Better Business Bureau, and governmental regulations for a for-profit or not-for-profit organization.
The member organization needs to be user friendly and not have pitbull representatives. As the UPA currently exists, you can request info from three different UPA member representatives and come away with contradicting answers. This is because the current UPA is under a dictatorship with a sole decision-maker who hides behind the curtain.
ManlyShot
Get rid of the current UPA and get a fresh start, a new organization, new administration.
Create the bylaws. After reading Poolmouse's posts, I realize how important the bylaws are to any organization.
Grandfather-in current UPA members to the newly created organization.
Cease and desist prohibiting the Five Banned Players from participation in sanctioned events.
Let the members vote and elect the president.
Create a tour, as Gremlin suggested.
Sanction independent events and offer a package that benefits independent promoters as well as the member organization.
Get rid of the legally binding, poorly written, unintelligible, self-serving, one-size-fits-all UPA contracts. If a membership contract is even warranted, it should be beneficial to the pool player as well as the member organization.
Seek business sponsors for their input, enabling the member organization to be a friendly liaison.
Keep the member organization website updated on a regular basis and respond to e-mails and phone calls in a timely manner.
Let the pool players be pool players and not call the shots when it comes to player selection for WPC and other prominent tournaments. The member organization needs a decision-maker who is not biased and is fair and neutral.
Contact the appropriate authorities to make the member organization politically correct with IRS, Better Business Bureau, and governmental regulations for a for-profit or not-for-profit organization.
The member organization needs to be user friendly and not have pitbull representatives. As the UPA currently exists, you can request info from three different UPA member representatives and come away with contradicting answers. This is because the current UPA is under a dictatorship with a sole decision-maker who hides behind the curtain.
ManlyShot
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Wow manlyshot,
I knew you had it in you. You wasted post after post telling everyone what wasn't working. Sentence after sentence attacking Charlie Williams as a person. Multiple paragraphs defending your chosen five. Finally you have some constructive thoughts. Most have already been posted but, thanks anyway. Now that everyone but the players involved have written off the UPA, when are you beginning your tour? I know several posters here at AZ that are chomping at the bit to tear you down! I will not be one of them!
I knew you had it in you. You wasted post after post telling everyone what wasn't working. Sentence after sentence attacking Charlie Williams as a person. Multiple paragraphs defending your chosen five. Finally you have some constructive thoughts. Most have already been posted but, thanks anyway. Now that everyone but the players involved have written off the UPA, when are you beginning your tour? I know several posters here at AZ that are chomping at the bit to tear you down! I will not be one of them!
cardiac kid said:
Hey, Cardiac Kid, I have no beef with you, until now.
I offer no tour, but I did not create one and expect pool players to be my prostitutes and take on the role of pimp. I am not condemning any member organization for men's pool, but I am writing in this thread, standing on MY soap box, proclaiming to the pool public how the UPA is conducting business.
I have no beef with Charlie Williams as a pool player. I don't particularly enjoy watching him compete, but I do have a great deal of respect for his pool-playing capabilities.
I do have a beef with the UPA president, the spokesperson of the UPA, the member organization that is affecting my world.
As far as several posters chomping at the bit to tear me down, they can take a shot.
As far as you, Cardiac Kid, I'll be up in Rochester soon, making plans this week, as a matter of fact, for the trip. I plan on being there Thanksgiving weekend, if all goes well. I am looking forward to seeing what a pompous ass looks like.
ManlyShot
"I am looking forward to seeing what a pompous ass looks like."
Wow, now I'm a railbird sitting pompous ass. I guess it must be the time of the season. Election time I mean. Seems to bring out the best in everyone. Each side feels only they have the God given right to be correct.
Wow, now I'm a railbird sitting pompous ass. I guess it must be the time of the season. Election time I mean. Seems to bring out the best in everyone. Each side feels only they have the God given right to be correct.
cardiac kid said:
It's the time of the season for giving.
The UPA created the division or "sides," as you call it. It is up to the UPA to rectify the wrongs committed, especially the "touring pro" category prohibiting [SIZE=HUGE]EARL STRICKLAND, KEITH McCREADY, COREY DEUEL, FRANKIE HERNANDEZ,[/SIZE] and [SIZE=HUGE]TROY FRANK[/SIZE], the Five Banned Players from their right to earn a living.
ManlyShot
Hey Manlyshot,
The Florida Men's tour has announced that they will be starting up again in January with about 7-8 stops with $6K to $7K added to each stop. Then there will be a final championship stop with $50K added.
Just like the finale this year I suspect that a requirement for next year's finale will be that a player must have participated in the tour during the year. This year the player must have played in at least one tour stop. But with 50K added, which is a reward to the players who played in the tour all year, they may require a player to participate in 2 or more stops to be elligible for the finale.
Cory Deuel has committed to be at every stop. And I believe that Mike Sigel will give it a try. Charlie Williams and Danny Harriman will most likely participate next year too. As will Rodney Morris, Troy Frank, Ray Martin, Buddy Hall, Steve Knoll, Mario Cruz, Luis Viera, Glen Olson, Dave Grossman, Howard Vickery. Can Johnny Archer, Reyes, Bustamante, and other greats be far behind?
John DiToro and OB Osceola really want to help the men and bring the sport into the limelight. I suggest you all get involved with them and help them out. Hopefully ESPN and BcTv will take notice.
Jake
The Florida Men's tour has announced that they will be starting up again in January with about 7-8 stops with $6K to $7K added to each stop. Then there will be a final championship stop with $50K added.
Just like the finale this year I suspect that a requirement for next year's finale will be that a player must have participated in the tour during the year. This year the player must have played in at least one tour stop. But with 50K added, which is a reward to the players who played in the tour all year, they may require a player to participate in 2 or more stops to be elligible for the finale.
Cory Deuel has committed to be at every stop. And I believe that Mike Sigel will give it a try. Charlie Williams and Danny Harriman will most likely participate next year too. As will Rodney Morris, Troy Frank, Ray Martin, Buddy Hall, Steve Knoll, Mario Cruz, Luis Viera, Glen Olson, Dave Grossman, Howard Vickery. Can Johnny Archer, Reyes, Bustamante, and other greats be far behind?
John DiToro and OB Osceola really want to help the men and bring the sport into the limelight. I suggest you all get involved with them and help them out. Hopefully ESPN and BcTv will take notice.
Jake
jjinfla said:
This is welcome news, Jake. Sounds like Florida is where the action will be, especially with the contributions of John DiToro and O.B. Osceola.
The listings of upcoming pool matches are plentiful on the BCtv's website -- www.billiardclub.net -- and this new venture sounds desirable and should attract their attention.
I want to learn more and spread the word to others who may be interested in participating. It couldn't have happened at a better time (IMO).
ManlyShot
manlyshot said:
Folks,
The UPA site is back up and a "Proposed Code Of Conduct" is posted at this URL:
http://www.upatour.org/membership/code_of_conduct/coc_pg1.htm
I didn't see an entry describing the organization's tax status, it's fiscal calendar, schedule of quarterly financial reports to members, board member position descriptions, etc.
Considering that Charlie Williams is on BOTH the Board Of Directors AND the Rules Committee, I found Section 5(a) particularly funny:
Section 5(c) was very reassuring
I'm looking forward to a UPA membership vote to appeal the suspensions of the five members...the outcome isn't as important as the process.
I'm at a loss over why an appeal should have to wait for an annual meeting. The appeals process needs to be looked at closely.
This Code Of Conduct should be renamed "ByLaws" and they need to be reviewed and voted on by membership to give it the validity it needs to serve as the foundation for the UPA.
PS, if any of the UPA board members are listening...would it kill you guys to post a clear link to a downloadable PDF?
PoolMouse
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poolmouse said:
They had the Proposed Code of Conduct before. I wonder why, after a year, it is still "proposed" and not final.
Poolmouse, four of the Five Banned Players were NEVER members. They were not able to become a member because they could not sign the UPA legally binding contract due to sponsor conflicts, couldn't commit to play in all sanctioned UPA events because of financial reasons, and the ever-present threat of injunctions and legal liabilities that empowers the UPA to ruin the pool player's professional career.
Earl Strickland was once a UPA member, and this UPA appeals process should have occurred, but instead, Earl was banned from future participation because the UPA president and he had a "falling-out," I guess you could call it. An appeals process, of course, should prevail, but not with this UPA organization.
So the UPA decided to create a "touring pro" category, with the sole purpose of BANNING and PROHIBITING Keith McCready, Earl Strickland, Troy Frank, Frankie Hernandez, and Corey Deuel from any future participation, unless, of course, they join the UPA union and sign the legally binding self-serving UPA contract.
By its very own PROPOSED Code of Conduct, "The term 'Professional Pool Player' must be a synonym and pledge of honor, service and fair dealing."
Fair dealing? The UPA is saying: "Okay, Five Banned Players, if you don't sign the UPA legally binding contract, we are going to prohibit you from playing pool in any UPA-sanctioned event, but every other pool player in the world can play pool in a UPA-sanctioned event by paying $25. You Five Banned Players will not be able to pay $25. You must sign the UPA legally binding contract and become a UPA member or forever be banned. I hereby deem you as 'touring pros,' and this category segregates you from the rest of the world. First, I will segregate you Five Banned Players by placing you in the UPA 'touring pro' category, and second, you are BANNED." This "touring pro" category was created behind the UPA curtain and proclaimed at the commencement of the Fury World Summit tournament in NYC.
Here is another clause in the PROPOSED Code of Conduct: "The overall financial irresponsibility of a Member may violate the Code of Ethics if the Member’s failure to meet financial obligations is determined to impact adversely or otherwise injure the reputation of the UPA or its Members." Well, some pool players do not have the financial means to attend UPA-sanctioned events in the United States, but what about Tokyo or Manila or Aruba? The pool player will be subjected to injunctions and legal liabilities to be determined by a court. And by the way, the UPA has pro bono lawyers. The pool player must retain legal counsel or represent themselves pro se in a court of law.
Here is another UPA self-serving clause: "Applying for or otherwise seeking, soliciting, discussing or accepting any employment in an unacceptable manner." The UPA ain't paying the pool player's bills, and they shouldn't CONTROL the pool player's money-making opportunities and require UPA approval. How in the hell do they think the pool player can afford to go to Tokyo, Manila, or Aruba?
And here what I call the gray-area clause: "Playing in an event that has been considered to be detrimental to the UPA." What in the world does this mean? Does it mean anything that is not UPA-sanctioned? This enforces the UPA's stranglehold on an independent promoter.
According to a recent poll on the IP website, here are the results so far.
[COLOR=deep pink]What is your opinion on the United Poolplayers Association (UPA)?
1. The players need a better contract. 17.78% (8 votes)
2. They're only in it for themselves. 8.89% (4 votes)
3. They'll be fine once Charlie Williams steps down. 2.22% (1 vote)[/COLOR]
4. They're destroying any chance the men might have. 55.56% (25 votes)
5. The UPA is definitely a good thing. 8.89% (4 votes)
6. What does UPA stand for again? 6.67% (3 votes)
ManlyShot
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bruin70 said:
Bruin70, maybe you didn't get a chance to read the full thread, but Darren S., a first-time poster in this thread with distinctive prose, posted that Frankie Hernandez was given "a goodwill offering" by the UPA when they "allowed" him to compete in the Fury World Summit of Pool in NYC.
Frankie and Kid Delicious are local to NYC, and the UPA had no choice but to allow them to participate, by their very own rules.
So the UPA union created a "touring pro" category and placed Frankie Hernandez, Troy Frank, Earl Strickland, Keith McCready, and Corey Deuel into this group, segregating them from all other pool players in the world who can participate in a UPA-sanctioned event by paying the $25 tax, and they are banned forever and ever until kingdom come.
If you are a really good player, Bruin70, and you are unable to sign the UPA legally binding contract because it could hurt your pool-playing career, the UPA would place YOU in the category with the Five Banned Players.
If you are an amateur pool player, someone who just wants to play in a big tournament and get a chance to play Efren or Bustie or Johnny or Nick or Jose Parica, you are allowed by the UPA to play in their UPA-sanctioned events. You may pay $25 and start at the bottom of the chart, while the UPA-ranked players get seeds and byes.
At Capital City Classic, if you were a UPA player who received a seed and a bye, you only had to play one match to get in the money round, but if you, Bruin70, are an amateur, someone who just wants to compete in a big tournament to see how you would fare, you would have had to win three matches to make it into the money round. The seeded players usually make it to the winner's circle, Bruin70, and if you were fortunate enough to win the big tournament, it may be your last tournament unless you join the union, pay 100 bucks, sign the legally binding contract, and face court battles and injunctions if you don't perform to the UPA's liking.
If you are an independent tournament promoter or director, you must adhere to the UPA playing rules for your tournament, cut up the money the way the UPA tells you to do it, even though you are basically putting up all of your money and doing all the work in bringing the tournament to fruition. If you do not want to play by the UPA rules and forego sanctioning, the UPA will inform you that none of its union members will participate in your tournament.
Discrimination in its ugliest form.
ManlyShot
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Of course there is the question that begs to be asked. Would Earl return to the UPA if he was asked?
And if Mike Sigel does get back into actively playing in pool tournaments will he join the UPA? Or will he just pick and choose the tournaments that he wants?
And what will a TD do when he finds out that if he doesn't get sanctioned by the UPA then the UPA pros will not attend his event. But if he does get sanctioned then another group of pros will not be allowed to attend the event? What's a TD to do?
And if Mike Sigel does get back into actively playing in pool tournaments will he join the UPA? Or will he just pick and choose the tournaments that he wants?
And what will a TD do when he finds out that if he doesn't get sanctioned by the UPA then the UPA pros will not attend his event. But if he does get sanctioned then another group of pros will not be allowed to attend the event? What's a TD to do?
K
Ken in CT
Guest
Poolmouse
There's never going to be a vote about the "decision" to take disciplinary action against Earl because such action that is outliined in the "Proposed Code of Conduct" was never taken by the BOD.
Earl was just sent a letter which stated that his "resignation" was accepted. He did not resign and he was not provided benefit of the appeal process contained in the UPA's own "Code". They simply decided to consider Earl's actions, which were probably a violation of the "Code", as a resignation.
They never charged Earl with any violation and therefore he does not have the benefit of due process which their "Code" should have given him. It's a strange way of doing business.
KenCT
There's never going to be a vote about the "decision" to take disciplinary action against Earl because such action that is outliined in the "Proposed Code of Conduct" was never taken by the BOD.
Earl was just sent a letter which stated that his "resignation" was accepted. He did not resign and he was not provided benefit of the appeal process contained in the UPA's own "Code". They simply decided to consider Earl's actions, which were probably a violation of the "Code", as a resignation.
They never charged Earl with any violation and therefore he does not have the benefit of due process which their "Code" should have given him. It's a strange way of doing business.
KenCT
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Manly shot,
Since I take it you are not a member of the UPA then you probably should not worry about the discipline section of their by-laws. As long as the BOD and the members agree to it that is all that matters.
It may not be to your liking, but it is straight forward and does protect the UPA. And all organizations have some sort of section devoted to discipline of its members. It is a necessary evil.
If I read the code of ethics properly I take it to mean that UPA players are prohibited from gambling. Which is probably a pretty good idea. But will it be enforced?
And Section 2 (a) ...playing for profit without invitation in any pool room not sanctioned by the UPA; confuses me. Does that only apply to pool rooms having a tournament? Or does it apply to a pro putting on an exhibition? Or how about a school like Hall, Varner and Robles are conducting? And does it mean that all pool rooms will now be classified as either sanctioned or non-sanctioned?
If you were a member I could see you in violation of a half dozen of the mentioned rules.
But in the end it is up to the individual member whether he will accept it or not. But I really don't see it having any large affect for most of the players.
Jake
Since I take it you are not a member of the UPA then you probably should not worry about the discipline section of their by-laws. As long as the BOD and the members agree to it that is all that matters.
It may not be to your liking, but it is straight forward and does protect the UPA. And all organizations have some sort of section devoted to discipline of its members. It is a necessary evil.
If I read the code of ethics properly I take it to mean that UPA players are prohibited from gambling. Which is probably a pretty good idea. But will it be enforced?
And Section 2 (a) ...playing for profit without invitation in any pool room not sanctioned by the UPA; confuses me. Does that only apply to pool rooms having a tournament? Or does it apply to a pro putting on an exhibition? Or how about a school like Hall, Varner and Robles are conducting? And does it mean that all pool rooms will now be classified as either sanctioned or non-sanctioned?
If you were a member I could see you in violation of a half dozen of the mentioned rules.
But in the end it is up to the individual member whether he will accept it or not. But I really don't see it having any large affect for most of the players.
Jake
jjinfla said:
Given the UPA's lack of an approved set of bylaws, the clear conflict of interest (Charlie Williams on both ruling bodies), and their controversial actions (in the eyes of the members and public...maybe not so controversial for those who compete at Earl's level), the members cannot afford to have a laissez-faire attitude toward UPA matters.
PoolMouse