What is a good way for a low-level player to handle unwanted advice?

[GoldCrown]

This works also….

 

[Ratta]

If a woman actually goes to take lessons, yes then teaching them is the same. However, I have tried helping quite a few in leagues, and also my son has tried with his girlfriend, they all take it as us insulting them saying they are bad, ignore the advice and continue to be bad. Probably 4/5th of the women have taken advice as just criticism about bad playing while for the men I showed things to it's pretty much none of them, they try what was shown and work on it. It's like telling someone trying to get through a wall there is a door next to them, they look at you, say "no thanks, I'm good" and continue to hammer at the concrete. One lady kept insisting that to play cut shots she just needs to aim on the side of the ball the cut shot is instead of actually aiming for the cut shot. Not just me but several other players told her that is not how you aim, she refuses to learn how to actually aim thinking her idea is correct, and is still a D player. Another one played longer that I have, over 30 years, and can't hit a stop shot or a draw shot, no idea about position either. No clue how one can play so long, in a league also for a good number of years and still play at a weak level.

I think, that i understand you- really

It also took me a while to learn to hold myself back giving unwanted "unasked" advices. And as soon as "you" feel, that a player not really wants it- just do yourself (and him/her) a favor, and take it as it is. Noone is the same human- and so she or he acts. That s it. You want to give "technical instruction"-- but you don t want to change a human s mind matey.

For years it drove me nuts and crazy, if students didn t do what I told them- may it be practicing drills, not writing down results etc etc.-- nowadays i just quit as soon as i feel im gettin frustrated or gettin angry.


And of course a big key is the skill of communication someone has- to find *this small grade"...where you can maybe lit a fire, or more interest-- but hey: Is it your exersize, to get someone into being "wanting" or being "enthusiastic to learn?

Well- from my side i pulled a line here: Enthusiasm and willing has to come from deep inside- from that person who want to learn from me. It is NOT MY JOB to make someone willing or wanting. I will neverever try to do something like that again- that was my biggest frustration for years. It really kind of hurt me.

As the good old Bert Kinister said: "There are Talkers And Doers"- --- so just wait for the Doers....and then you will enjoy teaching (both sides will^^).

there is one thing, that is written in stone- and some will never get it: ATTITUDE IS A DECISION
It is!


have a great day and a smooth stroke mate

 

[galipeau]

I'm one of those strangers that tries to help people out, especially if I see they are trying to get better but doing something wrong. I do ask if they are interested in some lessons or pointers, and almost never does someone say no. I mean if someone is doing something, why not try to do it better? And how can one get better without knowing how and knowing what is being done wrong. You won't learn to shoot a shot if you have no idea why it's not working except by total accident and then it's an accident to repeat the process to make it a second time.

Sometimes people love the advice, sometimes not. One thing I noticed, most women hate taking advice, while most guys are OK with it. Not sure why but there is something fundamentally different in the thought process because it's a huge and clear difference, I think women take advice as someone pointing out they are bad at a task while men take it as someone pointing out they can be better. Or maybe it's because it's a man giving advice and it's just a general negative kneejerk reaction.

I have probably created a dozen new regular players and a half dozen pretty close friends just from approaching people after league or just asking people to play and helping them with their game. The way I explain it to them "you need an asshole like me to tell you what you are doing wrong to get better" LOL Most of those guys are now playing in leagues with me or in general, and purchased cues and shafts after learning how things work, so it's an overall good thing I think trying to help people. I think if I did not approach them or started up conversations they would just be casual bangers instead of getting more interested in the sport.

I think women get more advice than a man of the same skill level. I'm sure it's f*cking annoying.

I sometimes offer advice, but always follow it up with, "please tell me to shut up if you don't want to hear it". I love the game and could talk for hours, but I am self aware enough to know it can be distracting or annoying.

 

[MC0135]

I’m sure this is not what you want to hear but take it as a compliment because people won’t waste there time with a lost cause

 

[GoldCrown]

My club room..,…the players that have no stroke and no idea what they are doing have a tendency to offer advice. Must be human nature. But nothing is more annoying than someone telling you how to play your shots …before and after you executed. That’s a different “no advice needed” subject.

 

[galipeau]

I had someone tell me how to shoot a stop shot once in a bar. Ended up playing for a beer. I like free beer.

 

[CapnCarom]

The OP didn't mention if he was playing in a league match, or just "banging balls", but this (for me anyway) seems to be an important distinction: IF you're playing in a TEAM event/match, I would say you should Expect the coaching/advice (especially if given by a higher skilled player). Whether you choose to Use the advice is really on you. But don't be argumentative about it in that context - it doesn't help anyone. Now, if you are in a league/team situation and you say "I just wanna bang balls around", I think your team has every right to expect you to accept advice. If you're playing by yourself or with buddies, ya just say "thanks, I'll remember that" and move on.

 

[KennyTooSlow]

I'm an old guy ... one of that regular group of old guys that always plays on that table up front ... that every good hall has. The only advice we received was from the other old guys we played with. Until ... one of the 20 somethings who thought he was hot stuff needed a cue and I loaned him my Phillippi for a few weeks. When he was done playing he got into the habit of coming over to our table and handing out advice to me on ... literally ... every shot I made. He'd say ... "I would have shot it this way or whatever way" ... and he'd proceed to describe how he would have done it. After a couple of weeks of this I'd had enough and told him to keep his mouth shut ... politely at first ... but in the end not so much.

I don't have a problem listening to advice from players I respect and play with ... and none of them into the advice game anyhow. But there's a certain type of personality that always wants to stroke their ego as they try to pull a power play on other players ... and I won't tolerate that when directed at me. If I had one gripe about people at pool halls it would be that some players have a big mouth.

 

[Minnesota Phat]

{...} He started saying the systems show you the shot... I told him yes, but you still have to see the shot and be able to adjust for every shot no matter what the baseline is. He went back inside after that.

The systems may show you the shot, but if you ain't got that swang, then it don't mean a thang!

By which I mean knowing the shot and making the shot are two different things. I know how to shoot a great jump shot - it's just the part of actually executing a great jump shot that gives me trouble. I have the same issue with deep threes in basketball.

 

[Minnesota Phat]

[...]

Multi level marketing and religion share lots of similar traits to recruit new members…….

Fatboy

Are you saying that modern billiards needs multi-level marketing and religion?

Because if that's what you're saying, I'm picking up what you're putting down! You just have to buy my five Made in the USA pool cues, then sell four of them to your friends, who sell four of them to their friends, and oh btw those pool cues are all gods and goddesses, and worth far more than whatever they are sold for, even if they are sold for 20 billion dollars each.

[Edit: Corrected a typo, and tried to make this comment more funny]

 

[Minnesota Phat]

I noticed there tends to be a pecking order on who is allowed to offer advice to who. A players can offer anyone advice. B players can offer advice to C and lower. C players can offer advice to D and lower. And at the bottom of the tree is women. Anyone can offer them advice regardless of relative skill levels or social familiarity.

And that pecking order is flipped in how frequently advice is offered. C/D players give advice the most frequently and A/B players give it more sparingly.

Awesome point! Thank you for your comment.

Could you imagine how annoying it would be to be a B player and a woman, and play pool? Seriously - we need better etiquette with the ladies. I miss chivalry.

 

[Minnesota Phat]

Not sure why people get upset over unsolicited advice.
When a strong player offers the advice, I'm glad to get the info. Even if I already know something we can discuss it, you never know something new can come out of it. Same goes for advice coming from a weaker player.

A few days ago a guy I played once using a new cue I was trying to get used to decided he needed to teach me what "english" is, but he wasn't even knowledgable enough to use the term "english," so he was all "hit it this way and it goes that way," etc., and he sucked so bad at pool that even his demonstration was pathetic.

Do you really not understand why that annoys me?

 

[Minnesota Phat]

stop missing and they will all shut up..

Yes, but if anyone ever stops missing, they will rule the Milky Way.

Everyone misses sometimes.

 

[Minnesota Phat]

The OP didn't mention if he was playing in a league match, or just "banging balls", but this (for me anyway) seems to be an important distinction: IF you're playing in a TEAM event/match, I would say you should Expect the coaching/advice (especially if given by a higher skilled player). Whether you choose to Use the advice is really on you. But don't be argumentative about it in that context - it doesn't help anyone. Now, if you are in a league/team situation and you say "I just wanna bang balls around", I think your team has every right to expect you to accept advice. If you're playing by yourself or with buddies, ya just say "thanks, I'll remember that" and move on.

Good point - I go out of my way to make it so it is just me. I like jump shots, masse shots, 3 rail bank shots, and other insanity, so I would have to develop a TON of patience to play league.

I don't mind losing, so long as it is exciting. I'd rather blow a jump shot and lose than not try it because my team correctly advised me that it's a low percentage play. I'd be like "B***, that's a baller shot," and we'd probably get into a fight about it, which is why I don't like team pool, unless my teammate understands that I'm a nutter, and supports me in that.

 

[Minnesota Phat]

Thanks to everyone for your fun/interesting/nice/insightful comments.

Sorry if I'm a blabbermouth with strong opinions - I can't help it, and if I could help it, I wouldn't. >

 

[Fatboy]

Are you saying that modern billiards needs multi-level marketing and religion?

Because if that's what you're saying, I'm picking up what you're putting down! You just have to buy my five Made in the USA pool cues, then sell four of them to your friends, who sell four of them to their friends, and oh btw those pool cues are all gods and goddesses, and worth far more than whatever they are sold for, even if they are sold for 20 billion dollars each.

[Edit: Corrected a typo, and tried to make this comment more funny]

Yes we need more MLM and religion in pool!

Door to door knocking and passing out purple 5 balls to those who are less fortunate and spreading the word that pool is drug free due to WADA.

Weekly congregations at pool rooms too!

Fatboy

 

[Minnesota Phat]

Yes we need more MLM and religion in pool!

Door to door knocking and passing out purple 5 balls to those who are less fortunate and spreading the word that pool is drug free due to WADA.

Weekly congregations at pool rooms too!

Fatboy

Pool is god.

God is pool.

 

[chefjeff]

I like playing pool, but I'm not good at it, and I get so much unsolicited advice from other players that it is starting to get on my nerves. Sometimes this happens even when I'm just practicing by myself - random strangers will come up and say I should do x, y, or z.

I know they're trying to be helpful, but sometimes I just want to bang balls around, and not be in school. I'm also suffering from information-overload, which has caused my play to suffer, as I am too aware of the 17,000 things I need to work on, and second-guessing a shot makes me miss and/or foul about 90% of the time.

And that's not to mention all of the bad or useless advice.

I also notice others giving their partner advice during doubles games, which almost invariably leads to the shooter missing, and sometimes leads to arguments between teammates. I call it "unintentional sharking."

I do appreciate that people are trying to be helpful, and that's nice, and sometimes I enjoy gleaning knowledge from better players, but I could use some advice about how to politely signal that I'm not in the mood for a pool lesson.

Listen to only those who can beat your ass on the table.

The others can be dismissed politely.

Watch how women do it.


Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

I think it's a very different dynamic for women. She might be thinking you're hitting on her, or she might be thinking that you're underestimating her because she's a woman, because both of those things happen a lot. She might also have a jealous boyfriend.

Women seem to be a small minority among serious players, so maybe the scene is a bit outside most women's comfort zone to begin with, and so when they have the chutzpah to get out and play with mostly guys, their reserves of emotional patience and psychological fortitude may already be running low.

I'm sure women get more unsolicited advice than men get, and women who play a lot of pool could be drawn into uncomfortable situations under the pretense of a guy offering them pool advice.

Even if a woman thinks you're only being nice and just trying to help, which is a big "if," she has all this other mentally-draining stuff in the background that might add up to a general aversion towards guys trying to tell her how she can improve her game.

I'm getting advice-overload, so I can't imagine how sick of advice I'd be, if I were a woman.

Sorry, I replied before I read this post.


jeff Livingston

 

[Minnesota Phat]

Listen to only those who can beat your ass on the table.

The others can be dismissed politely.

Watch how women do it.


Jeff Livingston

Don't get me started on women. I absolutely love them and they are the best, but also....