What is a "Professional" Pool Player? (Your Definition)

[skogstokig]

In pool, it's 100000% ability, not income. If someone can run out the set of 9 ball, or the game of straight pool, he's a pro. (Or if he used to be able to do that before he got really old). That's it.

i disagree. i've been on the receiving end of both and neither of them would even call themselves pros. one drives a forklift and the other one slings drugs. a strong regional player isn't a pro player.

fargorate level or tournament performance makes more sense

 

[briankenobi]

As stated before, there is no real definition like there is in golf. To me, its a few things. The eye test is one of them. You can tell that some one plays at a top level, or "pro speed" just by watching them play. I think Fargo of around 725-750 as a starter would be a way to potentially quantify the eye test. I think someone can have a part time job and still be a pro player but some top level players do nothing but pool. I know Bob Jewett brought up Mike Masse. People like myself and venom fall into that where we would be considered professional trick shot artists since we are paid to perform. I know pool is his full time gig where as I still have a full time job.

 

[nataddrho]

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[Rocket354]

A professional pool player is someone who makes more than 50% of their annual net income from billiards.

I like this definition more than fargo rating or anything else. Specifically, from their actual play, or a direct result of their play (sponsorships, mainly).

Someone who is a 800 but has a full-time job that supplies the majority of his income may play pro-level pool, but is not a pro pool player.

Someone who is a 700 and scoots around picking off low buy-in tournaments in his region, and that supplies the majority of his income, might not play as well as the previous example player, might even make less specifically at pool than the previous example player, but he would be a pro pool player, even if he's living a hand-to-mouth existence many would not want.

There of course is a correlation between being a pro and having a robust Fargo rating. But Fargo is a reflection of what skill it generally takes to be pro, not a defining aspect of being a pro.

 

[DieselPete]

HOW MANY TIMES DO WE NEED TO REHASH THIS TOPIC???.

The defination of a professional is a person who makes their living doing something. Now we all know that playing pool isn't really a sustainable living for most of the players.

So what you are really talking about is professional cailber player. That is probably in the 700-750+ fargo range. Now for the women it's alot lower range.

You aren't obligated to rehash this topic at all. In fact, you didn't even have to open the thread (the title makes it clear what it is about). One great thing about an internet discussion board is that people can refrain from participating in threads. You aren't trapped in a car with people having an annoying conversation.

And no, I'm not really talking about professional caliber players. That could be determined by something as simple as Fargo (say, over 700, or 750?). I'm asking how people would define a professional player, which is likely to involve income from the sport, having a sponsor, being paid appearance fees, having a tour card when appropriate, etc.

 

[Cleveland_Rocks]

I like this definition more than fargo rating or anything else. Specifically, from their actual play, or a direct result of their play (sponsorships, mainly).

Someone who is a 800 but has a full-time job that supplies the majority of his income may play pro-level pool, but is not a pro pool player.

Someone who is a 700 and scoots around picking off low buy-in tournaments in his region, and that supplies the majority of his income, might not play as well as the previous example player, might even make less specifically at pool than the previous example player, but he would be a pro pool player, even if he's living a hand-to-mouth existence many would not want.

There of course is a correlation between being a pro and having a robust Fargo rating. But Fargo is a reflection of what skill it generally takes to be pro, not a defining aspect of being a pro.

Right. Someone with a law degree that makes most of his/her money flipping homes is not a lawyer. I'm not sure why people question this. "Profession" describes how someone earns their income.

 

[JPB2]

As stated before, there is no real definition like there is in golf. To me, its a few things. The eye test is one of them. You can tell that some one plays at a top level, or "pro speed" just by watching them play. I think Fargo of around 725-750 as a starter would be a way to potentially quantify the eye test. I think someone can have a part time job and still be a pro player but some top level players do nothing but pool. I know Bob Jewett brought up Mike Masse. People like myself and venom fall into that where we would be considered professional trick shot artists since we are paid to perform. I know pool is his full time gig where as I still have a full time job.

You are a pro IMO. Making money, charging money for trick shot skill puts you in the pro category IMO. That is my opinion day job or not. Others of course may disagree.

As you mention above, it isn’t like golf, but golf does influence my views on the topic generally. And I do think golf has loosened the rules too much FWIW.

 

[Zerksies]

You aren't obligated to rehash this topic at all. In fact, you didn't even have to open the thread (the title makes it clear what it is about). One great thing about an internet discussion board is that people can refrain from participating in threads. You aren't trapped in a car with people having an annoying conversation.

And no, I'm not really talking about professional caliber players. That could be determined by something as simple as Fargo (say, over 700, or 750?). I'm asking how people would define a professional player, which is likely to involve income from the sport, having a sponsor, being paid appearance fees, having a tour card when appropriate, etc.

As discussed in other treads the answer was already established. You could of easily just searched the site for this exact topic and found your answer.

 

[garczar]

In the 40+yrs i've been around the game i've known a few players that made the lion's share of their income with their cue. IMO that makes them professional. None of them were world beaters, the best probably 675ish today but they all knew how to get the cash. I've also known a few gals that knew how to get the cash, they were true pros.

 

[dtroup64]

The word pro actually has a defined meaning. It means professional. Someone who makes something their profession. Whether you wish the word Pro to mean "great player" or not doesn't change the meaning of the word. You can suck at pool, and be a professional pool player.

 

[garczar]

The word pro actually has a defined meaning. It means professional. Someone who makes something their profession. Whether you wish the word Pro to mean "great player" or not doesn't change the meaning of the word. You can suck at pool, and be a professional pool player.

those are called 'broke dicks', usually find them selling plasma or pickin up cans. you can't suck at pool and make any money.

 

[JPB2]

An instructor is not a pro. If a banger player gets all their certifications and makes a living teaching pool, he/she is no pro. Give me a break. In pool, its all about ability.

Strongly disagree on this. As I mentioned above, golf has influenced my views on this and I know pool is different. Getting the certification doesn’t make you a pro, but making a living from teaching does IMO. I don’t think cue makers or table mechanics are pros. Their living doesn’t come from their skill or knowledge of the game.

The strictest view of amateurism would be the old British idea and I think that is too stuffy and elitist. A kid working in the pro’s shop probably wasn’t an amateur IIRC. OTOH I appreciated stories if when the USGA would have a roll of tape to cover the logos of amateurs at the US Open. The college kid everyone knew would turn pro and somehow sign with the company whose logo he “ happened” to wear while being interviewed on the broadcast was a bit of hypocrisy and cheapened the distinction a bit.

 

[garczar]

Strongly disagree on this. As I mentioned above, golf has influenced my views on this and I know pool is different. Getting the certification doesn’t make you a pro, but making a living from teaching does IMO. I don’t think cue makers or table mechanics are pros. Their living doesn’t come from their skill or knowledge of the game.

The strictest view of amateurism would be the old British idea and I think that is too stuffy and elitist. A kid working in the pro’s shop probably wasn’t an amateur IIRC. OTOH I appreciated stories if when the USGA would have a roll of tape to cover the logos of amateurs at the US Open. The college kid everyone knew would turn pro and somehow sign with the company whose logo he “ happened” to wear while being interviewed on the broadcast was a bit of hypocrisy and cheapened the distinction a bit.

To get a PGA pro certificate you have to be able play a little, i think the playing test is 150 or better for two rounds. That's pretty sporty. There is no cert. for teaching pool, i've known great players that couldn't teach and great teachers that didn't play super hot but they understood the game.

 

[Fore Rail]

To get a PGA pro certificate you have to be able play a little, i think the playing test is 150 or better for two rounds. That's pretty sporty. There is no cert. for teaching pool, i've known great players that couldn't teach and great teachers that didn't play super hot but they understood the game.

Within 15 shots of the of the course rating over 36 holes.

 

[DieselPete]

As discussed in other treads the answer was already established. You could of easily just searched the site for this exact topic and found your answer.

Yes, from reading this thread so far, I can see how clearly the definition has been established, with agreement from most parties.

LOL

 

[JPB2]

Ummm... The title of this thread says What is a "Professional" Pool Player? so if we want to stay on topic we shouldn't be discussing coaches, or instructors or cue makers. We should be talking about players.

As an example from football, Tom Landry did play pro football, but for most of his football career, he was not a pro player. A more complicated case is Mike Massey, who makes his living on the pool table shooting shots, but not from tournaments, and he was a pro player at one time.

Football isn’t a great example IMO because there isn’t as much amateur football in the post- college realm. I guess there’s some, but you have to be crazy to play football for free as an adult with a day job. I’m not talking flag football or whatever, I mean helmets and pads hand in the dirt football. If there were an amateur league pros like Landry should be barred from playing. And a semi- pro or low level arena league isn’t an amateur league. But the old guy who shows up at those is baffling to me. Post high school amateur football is college football and that has its own standards that are pretty much gone in the NIL era. And if there really were a pro/ amateur distinction in football I’d put at least the D-1 players in the pro category aside from the Ivy League and pioneer league and service academies. I do think instructors who make a significant portion of their income from teaching are professionals.

 

[JPB2]

To get a PGA pro certificate you have to be able play a little, i think the playing test is 150 or better for two rounds. That's pretty sporty. There is no cert. for teaching pool, i've known great players that couldn't teach and great teachers that didn't play super hot but they understood the game.

Yes, exactly. Pool doesn’t have the PAT as a requirement, and I think it can affect the credibility of the pool teacher, but that is up to the student. If someone with the instructor certification is charging for lessons, at least on a consistent or substantial basis, they are a pro, IMO, just like A PGA club pro. And we both know the standard required in the PAT is nowhere close to the standard of play required on developmental tours let alone the PGA Tour.

 

[DieselPete]

While I appreciate the conversation about teaching professionals, I did mean playing professionals.

Opinion: People who are strictly gamblers, no matter how successful, are not professional pool players, as I see it.

To me, these are the earmarks of a professional pool player:

Income: While they can have another career, a substantial portion of their annual income is from playing pool, whether that be winnings, appearance fees, or sponsorship deals.

Tournament play: They regularly participate in open, non-handicapped tournaments. They often finish in the money, and offset travel and entry costs with winnings. Tournament play is a net positive financially over the course of a year. They regularly play in tournaments with top prizes in the tens of thousands of dollars, not just a few hundred or one thousand dollars.

Taxation: They declare winnings and other revenue, and offset it with legitimate deductions for professional-related costs (travel, marketing, equipment, whatever). For tax purposes, they describe themselves as a professional athlete.

Sponsors: They are highly likely to have one or more professional sponsors, likely from cue sports and related companies. Someone is paying to have a badge on their tournament apparel and for them to use a cue and case.

Possible Card Holder/Eligibility: They could hold an appropriate card or eligibility to play on a recognized tour. Not all professionals are card holders, but it is likely that all card holders are professionals.

Cup Recognition/Consideration: While they might never qualify or be selected for a Cup competition (to represent their country or region of the world), they are on a path to be recognized for consideration, and a streak of success could thrust them into the conversation for a Cup team.

High Fargo Rate: I think that it being very high is assumed. The aforementioned items would not be true if their rating wasn't high. Having a high Fargo does NOT make someone a professional (although they could be called "pro caliber"), but all professionals DO have a high Fargo rating.

Pro Caliber: There are many pro caliber players that are not professionals pool players. I have great respect for their ability, but if they don't meet most of the aforementioned, they are great amateurs to me.

 

[Bavafongoul]

That's for a square dayjob. Not an athlete. An athlete is a professional based on abilities. Dr Dave probably makes a good living with all of his material, and he has all the teaching certificates. Is he a pro you'd buy a ticket to watch and expect him to do well in a pro event?

Pool is a parlor game, not a sport so calling pool players athletes is akin to called WSOP competitors also athletes.
The fact that the Olympics has gone bonkers labeling some competitions as athletic, like break dancing, is absurd.

Yeah, pool involves eye & hand coordination and stamina but so does throwing darts and can be also argued about
shooting marbles. None of the aforementioned are sports & are just games just like pool is but some argue otherwise.

I have been playing pool since the summer of 1960 and in lots of cities over the last six decades. I’ve observed athletes playing fantastic pool but here’s the rub. Their athleticism actually involved other individual & team sports competitions.

Playing pool is a game, not a sport but pool players prefer to elevate their prowess rather than diminish it by referring to
pool as merely a game, let alone a parlor game. But that’s what it was and still is but now it’s simply on a bigger stage.

 

[gregcantrall]

professional pool player is someone who makes more than 50% of their annual net income from billiards.

SEMI PRO is a condition that can include a huge range of Fargorate numbers. And a wide range of the income made while maintaining a full time day job. Supplements to the income are available. Well Were available back in the day. I am retired now.