I'm trying to improve my cueball control and I'm trying to have an understanding of the best way to control it. Is it better to try to hit center ball and just increase your speed to control the cue ball with minimal english? Or is it better to always have the same speed and apply different amounts of english to control the cueball? To me their are two ways of thinking when it comes to this ...Any thoughts?
What is better English or speed?
- Thread starter clarkie39
- Start date
WillGamble
Banned
My opinion is it's always best to play center ball (includes follow and draw) and just try to control the speed. Will allow for minimal mistakes when first learning to control position play. Once you get that down then you can start incorporating English into your shots for that pinpoint position play. Good luck at the tables.
Um, I'm not terribly experienced and all with only 38 years of experience but you will never be good if you have ONLY speed or ONLY english.
You need both. Speed control is only part of the game. English is another part. Geometry is yet another. And physics plays a role as well. Let's not forget strategy either.
What you ALWAYS need to do to play good is to play like you are playing chess. Know your move, and your next one after that. And know what your opponent will do when it's their shot.
Shooting one shot at a time is pointless. That's why you need speed AND english knowledge.
What you need to understand is energy. Speed is energy, but so is spin--especially when rails are involved.
Speed control is essential when controlling the CB, and you should be able to move the CB anywhere from 6mm through 15 diamonds with great accuracy (no spin involved). One parctice routine is to place the CB at head spot and then hit it exactly 1 diamond. When you get good at this, try 1/2 diamond, then 1 ball width. Most of what you see in this paragraph is concentrating on lack of speed. Just the right amount of speed is essential in position control.
Spin can add or subtract energy. Draw will slow the CB down until it burns off and the CB begins natural roll. Side pin can add speed or subtract speed after CB makes contact with OB. Spin opposite the direction of travel will take speed off the CB when it contacts a rail, spin in the same direction will add speed at rail contact.
Speed control is essential when controlling the CB, and you should be able to move the CB anywhere from 6mm through 15 diamonds with great accuracy (no spin involved). One parctice routine is to place the CB at head spot and then hit it exactly 1 diamond. When you get good at this, try 1/2 diamond, then 1 ball width. Most of what you see in this paragraph is concentrating on lack of speed. Just the right amount of speed is essential in position control.
Spin can add or subtract energy. Draw will slow the CB down until it burns off and the CB begins natural roll. Side pin can add speed or subtract speed after CB makes contact with OB. Spin opposite the direction of travel will take speed off the CB when it contacts a rail, spin in the same direction will add speed at rail contact.
Practice how you want to play..set shots up an shoot them with inside,outside..soft stroke..hard stroke..never be scared to play with draw..several folks will tell you..you can't control it..not so. Draw is less forgiving then follow..but if you really stroke a follow shot an miss stroke it..it to is gone.
If you haven't used english much..its safer to use it when the ob is really close to the pocket..The further out you are..the more likely your going to over cut; or under cut the shot..get some stickies an set your shots up an hit'em..an hit'em.
If you can afford it..get with an instructor for a few lessens..imo to even get close to playing okay..your going to have to put some real effort in to what you want out of your game..Theres alot of info you can check on this board..
Good luck in your quest to be a player..
If you haven't used english much..its safer to use it when the ob is really close to the pocket..The further out you are..the more likely your going to over cut; or under cut the shot..get some stickies an set your shots up an hit'em..an hit'em.
If you can afford it..get with an instructor for a few lessens..imo to even get close to playing okay..your going to have to put some real effort in to what you want out of your game..Theres alot of info you can check on this board..
Good luck in your quest to be a player..
Very well put..
Speed
You need to learn both, But I think it's much harder to master speed then it is to master english. It's easy to put spin on the ball but much harder to master just thr right amount of speed.
You need to learn both, But I think it's much harder to master speed then it is to master english. It's easy to put spin on the ball but much harder to master just thr right amount of speed.
Well stated & true. In my humble 46 yrs. of experience opinion. Although CJ Wiley's TOI is looking good too.
You don't want to get stuck on the idea that's there's 2 ways of playing shape. A good player needs to be 100% comfortable with using sidespin, the vertical axis, and everything in between.
If someone is pretty good with center/follow/draw, but cannot achieve the exact same position with sidespin, then that's a hole in their game that needs to be fixed. And great speed control is essential regardless of what english you choose (including no english).
If you have a certain common shot (like a rail cut where you bring the cue ball across the table) and ask 100 pros how they'll hit it, it won't be half of them saying "I'd just draw the ball" and half saying "I'd use center left" and a few saying "I'd use low left", most of them will give the same answer.
That's because they've figured out that using one english over another makes a certain shot more likely to go in, or easier to aim, or gives more margin for error on position.
I do think that if you're still fairly new to the game, you should avoid the bad habit of 'spinning balls in' with sidespin. If you pick it up early, it can hold back your game for a long time. You almost never need sidespin just to sink the shot. And for the most part it doesn't affect the path of the cue ball until it hits a rail. So save sidespin for situations where you know you're going into a rail.
If someone is pretty good with center/follow/draw, but cannot achieve the exact same position with sidespin, then that's a hole in their game that needs to be fixed. And great speed control is essential regardless of what english you choose (including no english).
If you have a certain common shot (like a rail cut where you bring the cue ball across the table) and ask 100 pros how they'll hit it, it won't be half of them saying "I'd just draw the ball" and half saying "I'd use center left" and a few saying "I'd use low left", most of them will give the same answer.
That's because they've figured out that using one english over another makes a certain shot more likely to go in, or easier to aim, or gives more margin for error on position.
I do think that if you're still fairly new to the game, you should avoid the bad habit of 'spinning balls in' with sidespin. If you pick it up early, it can hold back your game for a long time. You almost never need sidespin just to sink the shot. And for the most part it doesn't affect the path of the cue ball until it hits a rail. So save sidespin for situations where you know you're going into a rail.
Think about this...
Virtually all pool shots will result in spin (aka english) being applied to both the cue ball and the object ball.
Once you are aware of this phenomena, you can start concentrating on refining your stroke and point of aim to take advantage of what happens "naturally."
The benefit of this knowledge will be an asset, especially when playing on tables with variable cloth and cushion conditions.
A good cueist can achieve what looks like relatively easy cue ball positioning by hitting center ball shots. But Wait! They're not really center ball shots.
Practice using a soft stroke and try to identify the subtle movements of cue ball and object ball when stroking off-center shots.
If in doubt, observe the action a good one pocket player is able to impart to the object ball when making those impossible banks!
Have Fun!
Virtually all pool shots will result in spin (aka english) being applied to both the cue ball and the object ball.
Once you are aware of this phenomena, you can start concentrating on refining your stroke and point of aim to take advantage of what happens "naturally."
The benefit of this knowledge will be an asset, especially when playing on tables with variable cloth and cushion conditions.
A good cueist can achieve what looks like relatively easy cue ball positioning by hitting center ball shots. But Wait! They're not really center ball shots.
Practice using a soft stroke and try to identify the subtle movements of cue ball and object ball when stroking off-center shots.
If in doubt, observe the action a good one pocket player is able to impart to the object ball when making those impossible banks!
Have Fun!
Adding, something to help practice shots.
When I was first learning to shoot, my dad told me to shoot the cushion over and over until I could shoot the cushion and tell where the cue ball would stop.
I did this for hours. Placing the cue ball on the white dot and shooting it across the black dot. Center rail. Then I could push the cue ball almost anywhere on the table. (I can't do that anymore ~LOL~)
Some people, when determining first shot, will "draw" for break.
If you don't know what this is, it's where both players shoot simultaneously from the head rail, bouncing off the foot rail, and stopping as close to the head rail as possible without touching it. If both touch the head rail then whoever stops closest gets the break.
That is "speed".
For an advantage, if you know speed and english, you can say whoever stops closest to the center dot on the head rail, and so forth.
When I was younger I could nail the draw almost every time.
When I was first learning to shoot, my dad told me to shoot the cushion over and over until I could shoot the cushion and tell where the cue ball would stop.
I did this for hours. Placing the cue ball on the white dot and shooting it across the black dot. Center rail. Then I could push the cue ball almost anywhere on the table. (I can't do that anymore ~LOL~)
Some people, when determining first shot, will "draw" for break.
If you don't know what this is, it's where both players shoot simultaneously from the head rail, bouncing off the foot rail, and stopping as close to the head rail as possible without touching it. If both touch the head rail then whoever stops closest gets the break.
That is "speed".
For an advantage, if you know speed and english, you can say whoever stops closest to the center dot on the head rail, and so forth.
When I was younger I could nail the draw almost every time.
~LOL~
Lag, Draw, same concept
It has to do with the original question... Speed or english.
"lag" for break can be won with both combined.
Can't say as I've ever been aware of a good player intentionally using english while lagging for break. In fact, if a lagged ball crosses the long string (down the center of the table length-wise) or hits a side cushion, the lag is no good. So beware of using english on a lag.
This is correct. But, if you are lagging for the center dot then english can help
I've never heard that spin will change the cue ball speed after contact with the object ball. If it does, surely it can't be enough to be useful.
Have you never added "reverse english" to a cue shot to stop the ball in it's place or even draw it backward away from the object ball?
And if you add top spin (forward english) to a cue shot it will cause the cue ball to follow the object ball.
Whether someone calls it "back spin" (aka draw) or "top spin" (aka follow)it's "english" according to Minnesota Fats (who wrote the book I learned from when I was young).
Today, this what is said about top spin and bottom spin being referred to as "english"
While some people refer to top and bottom spin as English also, the name is generally considered to mean just side-spin.
Top-spin is also referred to as "follow", while bottom-spin is often referred to as "draw". Follow and draw are used in the vertical axis of the cue ball while side-spin is used in the horizontal.
The use of English and top/bottom-spin are usually not recommended for a beginner to pool and billiards. It's important to first develop a smooth, straight stroke and an ability to put the cue ball exactly where you aim it. These tools are usually developed as a person becomes proficient in the basics of pool and wants to bring their pool game to a higher level of expertise.
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It depends on the cut angle... the thicker the hit ( closer to straight in) the the more vertical spin matters and once you reach perfectly straight in it's the only thing that matters.
the thinner the cut the more speed matters, once you reach a certain point spin becomes irrelevant and the tangent line becomes a certainty which leaves speed the only determining factor..
left or right side spin generally only comes into play when controlling rebound off of a cushion making your margin for error entirely condition dependent.
the thinner the cut the more speed matters, once you reach a certain point spin becomes irrelevant and the tangent line becomes a certainty which leaves speed the only determining factor..
left or right side spin generally only comes into play when controlling rebound off of a cushion making your margin for error entirely condition dependent.
I think he means after contacting a rail.