What is the Difference between A-D players

Handicaps don't help for the mental game or do they?

doitforthegame said:
Disagree- the handicap is meant to give a player some opportunity to play against a higher rated player. It is not meant to be the vehicle to determine where they place in a tournament. i know tons of guys that were high-c's or b's that played in my room that never cashed in my tournaments. That has as much to do with the players "mental skills" as it does for his physical skills and ability. See, this is why people have these imagined issues with the handicap. The handicap doesn't shoot for you. You have to knock in the balls. If you haven't got it in the gut, the handicap isn't going to help.
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:thumbup: Handicaps don't help for the mental game or do they?

I agree about 98% on that! But on second thought I do think that somebody's mental game can improve their game.

I'm starting to do well in tournaments (after a year of playing again) only because of my mental attitude. Never giving up is one of the things i'm talking about.

But I have seen people with far more skill than myself just plain out dog the 8 & 9 in nine ball. As we all know that is mental. So do we figure that in for the handicap?

I don't really know, Thats why i'm posting this thread. Thanks everybody for giving me your thoughts (opinions).
 
ignomirello said:
:thumbup: Handicaps don't help for the mental game or do they?

I agree about 98% on that! But on second thought I do think that somebody's mental game can improve their game.

I'm starting to do well in tournaments (after a year of playing again) only because of my mental attitude. Never giving up is one of the things i'm talking about.

But I have seen people with far more skill than myself just plain out dog the 8 & 9 in nine ball. As we all know that is mental. So do we figure that in for the handicap?

I don't really know, Thats why i'm posting this thread. Thanks everybody for giving me your thoughts (opinions).
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The handicap or current score can be the big difference between dogging and not dogging. The pressure of giving a spot or being in a tough game can be too much heat.

On the other hand, some people just dog their brains out no matter what.
 
Dogging should it be included in a handicap?

cleary said:
The handicap or current score can be the big difference between dogging and not dogging. The pressure of giving a spot or being in a tough game can be too much heat.

On the other hand, some people just dog their brains out no matter what.
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Thats exactly what i'm talking about:scratchhead: So what handicap do you put a dogger who runs out to the 8 & 9 consistantly????
 
ignomirello said:
Thats exactly what i'm talking about:scratchhead: So what handicap do you put a dogger who runs out to the 8 & 9 consistantly????
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Running 7 or 8 balls in rotation consistently could be a B+ or an A, but if they cannot win because they dog it, they might end up as low as a C+, couldn't go lower though. Eventually they will learn how to win and be bumped to the right handicap.

This was posted by Eric. and I find it to be a great drill to get you in stroke and also helps show progress in your game.

Rack up some 10 ball. Break from anywhere. After the break, take ball in hand and run out, in rotation (1, 2, 3, etc...) All balls made on the break count. Any balls made on a scratch are spotted. Once you miss, the rack is over. You should shoot 10 racks and count the total balls made for each rack. After 10 racks, take your total and compare it to this chart:

30-35 D+
36-40 C
41-45 C+
46-50 B
51-55 B+
56-60 A
61-65 A+
66-70 A++
71-up Pro

I like to play it with 9ball, I count the 9 as 2 points. The 9ball break is easier and more balls go in on the break, so I subtract 10 points from my final score. It seems to be accurate that way.
 
cleary said:
Running 7 or 8 balls in rotation consistently could be a B+ or an A, but if they cannot win because they dog it, they might end up as low as a C+, couldn't go lower though. Eventually they will learn how to win and be bumped to the right handicap.

This was posted by Eric. and I find it to be a great drill to get you in stroke and also helps show progress in your game.

Rack up some 10 ball. Break from anywhere. After the break, take ball in hand and run out, in rotation (1, 2, 3, etc...) All balls made on the break count. Any balls made on a scratch are spotted. Once you miss, the rack is over. You should shoot 10 racks and count the total balls made for each rack. After 10 racks, take your total and compare it to this chart:

30-35 D+
36-40 C
41-45 C+
46-50 B
51-55 B+
56-60 A
61-65 A+
66-70 A++
71-up Pro

I like to play it with 9ball, I count the 9 as 2 points. The 9ball break is easier and more balls go in on the break, so I subtract 10 points from my final score. It seems to be accurate that way.
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Actually, the credit for this belongs to Joe Tucker. I added in the "A++" category and now that I think about it, you could prolly add in "71-75 Open level" and "76-up Pro". I wouldn't doubt if an elite player like Shane could avg. 85.

Obviously, this only looks at part of someone's game i.e. pocketing, position play and break skill. Any comprehensive rating above C level should factor in safety play and kicking too. Either way, I find it to be pretty accurate.

I like this drill a lot. Like Cleary said, it is progressive and can show measurable improvement, over time. It is also something that is practical and not boring.

*Edit- Cleary, I think the rating is more accurate playing 10 ball. The break is much more of a skill shot and a good break can be the difference between a wide open rack with no clusters or a clustered mess that leaves you mutha froggering the layout.


Eric
 
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Nice system :-) But what about Defensive play? safety's?

cleary said:
Running 7 or 8 balls in rotation consistently could be a B+ or an A, but if they cannot win because they dog it, they might end up as low as a C+, couldn't go lower though. Eventually they will learn how to win and be bumped to the right handicap.

This was posted by Eric. and I find it to be a great drill to get you in stroke and also helps show progress in your game.

Rack up some 10 ball. Break from anywhere. After the break, take ball in hand and run out, in rotation (1, 2, 3, etc...) All balls made on the break count. Any balls made on a scratch are spotted. Once you miss, the rack is over. You should shoot 10 racks and count the total balls made for each rack. After 10 racks, take your total and compare it to this chart:

30-35 D+
36-40 C
41-45 C+
46-50 B
51-55 B+
56-60 A
61-65 A+
66-70 A++
71-up Pro

I like to play it with 9ball, I count the 9 as 2 points. The 9ball break is easier and more balls go in on the break, so I subtract 10 points from my final score. It seems to be accurate that way.
Click to expand...

:thumbup:Nice system :thumbup: :-) But what about Defensive play? safety's? Kicking at balls, mental awareness, jumping?
 
ignomirello said:
:thumbup:Nice system :thumbup: :-) But what about Defensive play? safety's? Kicking at balls, mental awareness, jumping?
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Yea, of course kicking and safety game are huge parts of the game and should factor into a players speed, but offensive power is the biggest thing and really stand out as a players speed. Kicking and safeties only win games if you have the offensive power to take advantage of their mistakes.

Jumping though, shouldn't really be included in a players speed. Its a handy weapon to learn and get good at, but its a very small part of the game.
 
Eric. said:
*Edit- Cleary, I think the rating is more accurate playing 10 ball. The break is much more of a skill shot and a good break can be the difference between a wide open rack with no clusters or a clustered mess that leaves you mutha froggering the layout.
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I've played this game with both 9ball and 10ball about 5 times each (just started). I'm consistently about 10 balls better in 9ball than 10ball, which is why I subtract 10 from my final score. But I agree, 10ball is much harder layouts, harder break and more traffic. So 10ball might be a lot more accurate. I mostly play 9ball in leagues and tournaments, so I prefer practicing it, mostly for the break.
 
cleary said:
I've played this game with both 9ball and 10ball about 5 times each (just started). I'm consistently about 10 balls better in 9ball than 10ball, which is why I subtract 10 from my final score. But I agree, 10ball is much harder layouts, harder break and more traffic. So 10ball might be a lot more accurate. I mostly play 9ball in leagues and tournaments, so I prefer practicing it, mostly for the break.
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Dude, I hear what you're saying. Being 10 balls better when using 9 ball is kinda what I see too. With 9 ball, it's not rare ot have 2-3 balls going on the break and I almost never see a cluster, where in 10 ball, I'm happy when I can make a ball.

What scores are you putting up for 9 ball?


Eric
 
Eric. said:
Dude, I hear what you're saying. Being 10 balls better when using 9 ball is kinda what I see too. With 9 ball, it's not rare ot have 2-3 balls going on the break and I almost never see a cluster, where in 10 ball, I'm happy when I can make a ball.

What scores are you putting up for 9 ball?


Eric
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My average for 9ball is 51. Average for 10ball is 39. On 9' goldcrowns with larger than life pockets.

Glad I'm not counting the 2 times I missed the very first ball with ball in hand, unscrewed and went to the bar. :)
 
cleary said:
Running 7 or 8 balls in rotation consistently could be a B+ or an A, but if they cannot win because they dog it, they might end up as low as a C+, couldn't go lower though. Eventually they will learn how to win and be bumped to the right handicap.

This was posted by Eric. and I find it to be a great drill to get you in stroke and also helps show progress in your game.

Rack up some 10 ball. Break from anywhere. After the break, take ball in hand and run out, in rotation (1, 2, 3, etc...) All balls made on the break count. Any balls made on a scratch are spotted. Once you miss, the rack is over. You should shoot 10 racks and count the total balls made for each rack. After 10 racks, take your total and compare it to this chart:

30-35 D+
36-40 C
41-45 C+
46-50 B
51-55 B+
56-60 A
61-65 A+
66-70 A++
71-up Pro

I like to play it with 9ball, I count the 9 as 2 points. The 9ball break is easier and more balls go in on the break, so I subtract 10 points from my final score. It seems to be accurate that way.
Click to expand...

I really like this drill. I use it about once a week and play 20 or 30 racks (2-3 totals). My problem is my practice and competition are two completely different animals. When I run this drill I score consistently in the high 50's- low 60's. I usually run out 3-5 racks and could score higher but I typically have a rack or two where I only get a couple balls (sometimes a hard layout or just a missed ball).

I play on a Diamond 9ft with 4.5" pockets. My cloth is about 3.5 years old and I have to hit em medium-hard to get position (which I think might be helping me when I go to tables that move the ball easier, like the Filipino addage of humidity and old cloth).

My problem is that I practice like an A+ player and compete like a B. I need to figure out what's holding me back from playing like I practice.
 
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Eric. said:
Actually, the credit for this belongs to Joe Tucker. I added in the "A++" category and now that I think about it, you could prolly add in "71-75 Open level" and "76-up Pro". I wouldn't doubt if an elite player like Shane could avg. 85.

Obviously, this only looks at part of someone's game i.e. pocketing, position play and break skill. Any comprehensive rating above C level should factor in safety play and kicking too. Either way, I find it to be pretty accurate.

I like this drill a lot. Like Cleary said, it is progressive and can show measurable improvement, over time. It is also something that is practical and not boring.

*Edit- Cleary, I think the rating is more accurate playing 10 ball. The break is much more of a skill shot and a good break can be the difference between a wide open rack with no clusters or a clustered mess that leaves you mutha froggering the layout.


Eric
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How many points should be deducted if I do this on an 8 footer?
 
I feel sorry for the tournament directors

cleary said:
Yea, of course kicking and safety game are huge parts of the game and should factor into a players speed, but offensive power is the biggest thing and really stand out as a players speed. Kicking and safeties only win games if you have the offensive power to take advantage of their mistakes.

Jumping though, shouldn't really be included in a players speed. Its a handy weapon to learn and get good at, but its a very small part of the game.
Click to expand...

I feel sorry for the tournament directors.:mad:

I just wish we all could have a standard as to rateings.

Then all we would have to worry about is the sandbaggers :)
 
paksat said:
How many points should be deducted if I do this on an 8 footer?
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I dunno. Is it a barbox and does it have ridgeback rails??

Honestly, I wouldn't bother. Jsut do it and figure that you'd score a bit lower on a bigger table. It shouldnt be THAT much of a drop.


Eric
 
Neil said:
Not necessarily so. On a 7' table, you will have a lot more tie ups than on a big table.
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You know, this is the age old misconception. Unless you are playing full rack games like Rotation or Straight or even 8 ball, I don't subscribe to this. Nor have most ppl I've talked to.

In my experience, from actually playing on both size tables, regularly (Valley box and 9 ft. GC), I find 9 ball or 10 ball a good amount easier on the barbox. It's not like you don't get clusters on the big tables either and the clusters on the barbox aren't necessarily "more clustered".

If anything, the smaller size table makes for shorter shots (you nvr have a shot more than 6.5 ft) and (this is a BIG and) and, the pockets on a Valley barbox have to be the biggest, most forgiving pockets of any pool table made. Ball pocketing is a joke on a Valley bar box. These two factors far negate the occasionally more congested balls factor.


Eric
 
Neil said:
I never used to either. I always figured that ten ball with one ball gone would be the same as running a rack of 9 ball. I now believe differently after many ten ball breaks. The ten ball racks tend to tie up a LOT more than a nine ball rack will. You get a lot more bank shots in ten ball.

I agree with you about the Valley tables. Although mine is an exception and is modified to be tougher than a Diamond table. Mine is extended shelves and all pockets are 4 1/8". The rails are modified also.
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Whoa. I never said that 10 ball was a little or a lot harder. That nvr came up in this whole thread. In fact, nobody believes that 10 ball is "only 1 more ball". Who said that? Neil, are you drinking again? :p


Eric
 
Can everybody go by one system for rateing players?

ignomirello said:
I feel sorry for the tournament directors.:mad:

I just wish we all could have a standard as to rateings.

Then all we would have to worry about is the sandbaggers :)
Click to expand...

Can everybody go by one system for rateing players?

Wouldn't than be so much easier for everybody?
 
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