What is the one English shot that you want?

[Bob Jewett]

I play and teach low follow,,,its easier to control the distance you want the CB to travel....

I think the most accurate way to hit follow shots for exact distance followed is about one tip above center. This is far less sensitive to three factors: any error you make in how high you hit the ball, how slippery the cloth and ball are, and variations in how far the cue ball is from the object ball.

If you use a stripe as the cue ball, put the stripe horizontal and hit the ball with the top of your ferrule even with the top of the stripe -- that's about the right amount of follow for best distance control.

Of course this assumes a flat table and that a rolling cue ball is OK for the distance needed.

 

[Ronoh]

I'm not trying to get into an arguement, but the way my brain works is that when a ball gets wear, it has less viscosity (viscous) becuase it has picked up all the impurities from the table over time (and may possibly weigh more).

I'll go buy a new set of balls (mine need replaced anyway) and I'll weigh the difference. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I only want to find the answer to this question. No hard feelings.

 

[pete lafond]

I'm not trying to get into an arguement, but the way my brain works is that when a ball gets wear, it has less viscosity (viscous) becuase it has picked up all the impurities from the table over time (and may possibly weigh more).

I'll go buy a new set of balls (mine need replaced anyway) and I'll weigh the difference. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I only want to find the answer to this question. No hard feelings.

No problem here. Lets forget wear. Instead an object ball weighing less than a cue ball (this actually exists), what do you think occurs when contact is made compared to both weighing the same with the same speed and english applied? Answer I'm looking for is the heavier cue ball will have a more forward travel even if draw is used. Does not mean that the ball will not draw when the CB is heavier, just more draw is required.

 

[LastTwo]

This reminds me of some bullshit artist who was preaching how he could draw the ball aiming high on the cueball. He demonstrated it by aiming really high on the cueball during his practice strokes, and on the final stroke he dipped his tip downwards to hit the cueball low and drew it back. Needless to say nobody was impressed.

 

[Gerry]

This reminds me of some bullshit artist who was preaching how he could draw the ball aiming high on the cueball. He demonstrated it by aiming really high on the cueball during his practice strokes, and on the final stroke he dipped his tip downwards to hit the cueball low and drew it back. Needless to say nobody was impressed.

I learned 14.1 from a guy that aimed every shot with center ball and then stroked english when making the shot. He did this because of gambling in the bars. He never gave away what spin he was putting on the ball, or that he WAS using any spin. On another note, I remember watching him play 80 no count 14.1 also, then I racked, then I watched, then I racked......G

 

[SmoothStroke]

Must be true

I think the most accurate way to hit follow shots for exact distance followed is about one tip above center. This is far less sensitive to three factors: any error you make in how high you hit the ball, how slippery the cloth and ball are, and variations in how far the cue ball is from the object ball.

If you use a stripe as the cue ball, put the stripe horizontal and hit the ball with the top of your ferrule even with the top of the stripe -- that's about the right amount of follow for best distance control.

Of course this assumes a flat table and that a rolling cue ball is OK for the distance needed.

I guess it must be true if the billiard academy says so

 

[Fred Agnir]

The person that said a smooth cue ball is heavier than a "less worn" cue ball doesn't understand friction. Oh, hell, that was you that siad that Pete.

On the surface, it's backwards. A less worn cueball should be heavier. It's less worn afterall.

That being said, a smoother cueball might have a higher coefficient of friction. So a higher CoF might be modeled as a "heavier cueball." Maybe that's what they were saying?

Fred <~~~ just guessing

 

[Fred Agnir]

This reminds me of some bullshit artist who was preaching how he could draw the ball aiming high on the cueball. He demonstrated it by aiming really high on the cueball during his practice strokes, and on the final stroke he dipped his tip downwards to hit the cueball low and drew it back. Needless to say nobody was impressed.

The October issue of InsidePOOL Magazine has an anectode of this very thing in the Cue Makers Corner article on Jack Justis. Except, as a kid, Jack was impressed.

Fred

 

[CaptainJR]

This sure sounds like a drag shot to me. If so, it's a real feel thing To practice it use a striped ball so you can see the backspin and pay close attention to how far away the backspin wears off. The point at which the backspin wears off depends on how much backspin and how much forward speed on the cueball. Once you get the feel for where the spin disappears you've got the shot. I suggest playing longish straight in stop shots using a drag stroke as the first step. By trying to stop the cue ball you are actually trying to get the backspin to drop to no spin at the point of impact.

Dave

As I mentioned in my first responce in this thread, this shot is way to firm to be a shot that the draw could reverse to follow before hitting the object ball. Everytime I see it I don't believe it.

 

[CaptainJR]

This is the secret as it was told to me when I first learned draw and follow...

"The horizontal axis of the CB is equal to the angle of your cue"

That being said....by jacking up slightly it may create an illusion of hitting low as the cue is pointed downward...but If you strike just above the horizontal axis, you get follow...strike below and you get draw...

Good thinking here but, when I watch this shot the cue stick is as level as any other shot. Again, it completely bewilders me.

 

[Egg McDogit]

I play and teach low follow,,,its easier to control the distance you want the CB to travel.. also better for sighting unless you need to go up high with power

only way to follow with low is to drag it so it starts rolling before hitting the object ball, as a couple people pointed out. You can hit this shot firm too...if you punch it or have a bad stroke. But it's a pretty effective shot...if you don't like money.

 

[Fred Agnir]

only way to follow with low is to drag it so it starts rolling before hitting the object ball, as a couple people pointed out. You can hit this shot firm too...if you punch it or have a bad stroke. But it's a pretty effective shot...if you don't like money.

There's also jumping the ball, double-hitting, and pushing. I doubt any of these are what's being described. Seems like drag draw to me.

Somebody give me a video, cuz I don't understand what's being described.

Fred

 

[Jimmy M.]

Somebody give me a video, cuz I don't understand what's being described.

Fred

You and I both.

 

[BRKNRUN]

You and I both.

The only thing that I can think of that even comes close would be a shot that I saw Efren working on...

He was practicing the shot where both balls are close to the end rail. The CB follows out two rails and down table...It (looked) like he was barely using any top at all, but combined with his stroke and some side spin, the ball takes off like force follow.......It did (almost) look like he was hitting low on the CB, but I watched him real close though...He was hitting above the horizontal axis.....

 

[DaveK]

As I mentioned in my first responce in this thread, this shot is way to firm to be a shot that the draw could reverse to follow before hitting the object ball. Everytime I see it I don't believe it.

Ask him to shoot it with a striped ball instead of the cb, then you will be able to see the spin direction and how it changes. Or just try to learn the drag shot yourself and see if you can replicate the shot using drag. As another poster said, drag shots can be played with pretty good speed (compensate by applying less bottom as there is less time for it to wear off). Note that when I suggested learning the drag shot by practicing drag-stop shots, you can do them at various speeds. The limit would be the hard center-ball hit where the cue ball slides with no spin all the way to the object ball (what many would call a standard stop shot). Just 'under' this limit is a drag shot played fairly hard with minimal backspin. Way under this limit is the maximum draw drag shot, which must hit with less speed such that all that backspin wears off over the distance between the cb-ob. Once you get the feel of the backspin you can play fairly hard drag shots with the backspin gone an inch or so before impact, and the cue ball will then follow an inch or two.

Now go practice

Dave

 

[Egg McDogit]

As I mentioned in my first responce in this thread, this shot is way to firm to be a shot that the draw could reverse to follow before hitting the object ball. Everytime I see it I don't believe it.

What I don't believe is how bustamante can force follow and snap draw the rock with just sidespin!!! it's amazing!!!

 

[Bob Jewett]

I guess it must be true if the billiard academy says so

There's no need to be obnoxious and snide about it, "SmoothStroke." If you have something useful to add, please let us hear it.

Since we have a difference of opinion here -- you think that accurate follow is best achieved by hitting the cue ball below center and I think it's better to follow by hitting the cue ball above center -- let's have a test. The shot is
to put a ball on the spot and shoot with the cue ball behind the line. The goal is to leave the cue ball frozen to the foot rail, not necessarily pocketing the object ball. The test is the average distance the cue ball is left off the cushion in ten shots. I think that's the kind of shot you were referring to.

If you're going to be at the Mosconi Cup, we could test this over at the Cue Club.

 

[Bob Jewett]

What I don't believe is how bustamante can force follow and snap draw the rock with just sidespin!!! it's amazing!!!

Actually, he hits the ball low to draw it and high to follow it. It's just that with his mechanics, it's impossible to tell where he is going to hit the ball during his address.

 

[jaz]

He can cue the cue ball with low english, and get the cue ball
to follow after making the shot. I am not talking about just
sidespin, some, but not extreme at all, and with low, he can
follow for a ways, or sometimes clear to the other end of the
table, and not with extreme angles on the object ball either.

Ronnie Wiseman taught me this shot to be able to control the cue ball when shooting a long slight angle shot with the object ball on the rail. It's a shot that is based on a smooth follow through and controlling the amount of back spin placed on the cue ball. It's a very effective shot to have in your bag of tricks.

Personally, I'd like to have a consistent "nip" shot for close cue/object ball shots...

 

[Egg McDogit]

Actually, he hits the ball low to draw it and high to follow it. It's just that with his mechanics, it's impossible to tell where he is going to hit the ball during his address.

I was being sarcastic Seriously though, I don't understand why anyone would want to shoot a drag shot when you can use stun follow. Too many things can go wrong with a drag shot.