What is this Cue?

It's interesting some think this looks like a Richard Black, when I can't find too much resembling Richard's. The butt plate looks longer than the standard 1.5 inches, something Richard rarely if ever did. If anything notable, it more resembles a Tad butt plate. Also, Richard did a rubber bumper than was smaller in diameter than the one in the photos, although anything is possible in a refinish. The joint rings do not resemble Richard's in any way. The aluminium-looking material is not what Richard used, and is placed not where I've seen any other Black cue in the collar, too much toward the center. I can't imagine this cue coming from Richard.

Some recalcitrants have suggested since the point inlays appear off center, it could be Richard's. Even in the digital age, camera and photo anomaly seem to elude them, so let me provide a little help. From possibly the most vaunted cuemaker today, posted in the archives. Do the inlays look centered? Use your best judgment. Then, try not to make too much of photos for judgment of inlay alignment, and assign it to a particular maker.

All the best,
WW
 

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The innermost veneer is thinner than the others. I would like to think this might help.
 
WildWing said:
It's interesting some think this looks like a Richard Black, when I can't find too much resembling Richard's. The butt plate looks longer than the standard 1.5 inches, something Richard rarely if ever did. If anything notable, it more resembles a Tad butt plate. Also, Richard did a rubber bumper than was smaller in diameter than the one in the photos, although anything is possible in a refinish. The joint rings do not resemble Richard's in any way. The aluminium-looking material is not what Richard used, and is placed not where I've seen any other Black cue in the collar, too much toward the center. I can't imagine this cue coming from Richard.

Some recalcitrants have suggested since the point inlays appear off center, it could be Richard's. Even in the digital age, camera and photo anomaly seem to elude them, so let me provide a little help. From possibly the most vaunted cuemaker today, posted in the archives. Do the inlays look centered? Use your best judgment. Then, try not to make too much of photos for judgment of inlay alignment, and assign it to a particular maker.

All the best,
WW
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Bad example Hoot :wink:... If it's Dennis's, you know it's centered :)
 
skins said:
Bad example Hoot :wink:... If it's Dennis's, you know it's centered :)
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Exactly my point, Tim, there is no doubt that the inlays are centered. But the photo often distorts, and makes inlays look off center. I know you're aware of this, but some aren't.
 
I had the same veneers on a R

A couple of them. By the way anyone with an index can dial in centers. If the points are uneven it might be a black though I say old R with slip on boxes. Many dealers used to request Cues with no trade mark? Wonder why.
Nick :)
 
Someone mentioned Jimmy Ingram as a possibility, I'd say odds are against. Jimmy's logo is typically burned into the forearm; a technique he learned from a luthier buddy of his back in the 70's. Even if refinished you could still see it or at least the remnants if someone took off an insane amount of material. It's been awhile since I've seen or spoken with him so I guess it's possible he's changed it but I would think that to be unlikely.

Did anyone ever figure out what this cue actually is?
 
WildWing said:
It's interesting some think this looks like a Richard Black, when I can't find too much resembling Richard's. The butt plate looks longer than the standard 1.5 inches, something Richard rarely if ever did. If anything notable, it more resembles a Tad butt plate. Also, Richard did a rubber bumper than was smaller in diameter than the one in the photos, although anything is possible in a refinish. The joint rings do not resemble Richard's in any way. The aluminium-looking material is not what Richard used, and is placed not where I've seen any other Black cue in the collar, too much toward the center. I can't imagine this cue coming from Richard.

Some recalcitrants have suggested since the point inlays appear off center, it could be Richard's. Even in the digital age, camera and photo anomaly seem to elude them, so let me provide a little help. From possibly the most vaunted cuemaker today, posted in the archives. Do the inlays look centered? Use your best judgment. Then, try not to make too much of photos for judgment of inlay alignment, and assign it to a particular maker.

All the best,
WW
Click to expand...

First off, the inlays DO look centered in Dennis's cue, don't know why you use that example.
Second, I own 3 Blacks and the inlay work is far from perfect. Sorry if you dont wanna hear it about Black, but too bad. I've seen his inlays go into the veneers on one side and not be close to the veneers on the other.
 
Maybe Showman??.... Haven't seen John ever do his shaft pilots nor ferrules that way though.
 
skins said:
Maybe Showman??.... Haven't seen John ever do his shaft pilots nor ferrules that way though.
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Comparing against a single cue does not assure any conclusion. John's shafts are typically 29.5'' long and that appears to be consistent with the cue in this thread. But the pin and shaft insert do not look like my Showman. I have 4 Showman shafts from 3 different time periods and none of them have pilots that are all brass.
 
Sealegs50 said:
Comparing against a single cue does not assure any conclusion. John's shafts are typically 29.5'' long and that appears to be consistent with the cue in this thread. But the pin and shaft insert do not look like my Showman. I have 4 Showman shafts from 3 different time periods and none of them have pilots that are all brass.
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Also Johns point gap by the wrap is usually non existent so thats another red flag butt I'm not sure if any of his earlier cues had the classic "Szam" gap or not. To add, because of the ferrule being short, someone else could have made the shaft.
 
skins said:
Also Johns point gap by the wrap is usually non existent so thats another red flag butt I'm not sure if any of his earlier cues had the classic "Szam" gap or not. To add, because of the ferrule being short, someone else could have made the shaft.
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John will make shafts with short ferrules. Three of my shafts were built at a time when he was experimenting with ferrule length. All four shafts are the same overall length of 29.5".

Also worth mentioning, my cue's pin and two shaft inserts are engraved with his last name and the last two digits of the date. The older two shafts that were bought separately are not engraved. I don't know how common was his practice of engraving the pin and inserts or when he started doing it. The letters are extremely small and difficult to read. If you aren't looking for them, you probably wouldn't notice.
 

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Sealegs50 said:
John will make shafts with short ferrules. Three of my shafts were built at a time when he was experimenting with ferrule length. All four shafts are the same overall length of 29.5".

Also worth mentioning, my cue's pin and two shaft inserts are engraved with his last name and the last two digits of the date. The older two shafts that were bought separately are not engraved. I don't know how common was his practice of engraving the pin and inserts or when he started doing it. The letters are extremely small and difficult to read. If you aren't looking for them, you probably wouldn't notice.
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Nice to know John "experiments" :)
 
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