What is wrong with profit ?

[breakup]

One of the greatest contributions Mark Griffin can make to pool with the privately held BCA league system is to demonstrate that pool is an attractive place for a prudent investor to commit/risk their funds. If he can make a good return on his investment it will make the sport more likely to attract other investors and sources of revenue in the future. Mark is in a unique position ( not by accident!) in that he is a partner in Diamond Tables and will be able to promote that product through the BCA leagues and tournaments thus leveraging one business with another. We as players are fortunate that Mark was here at this point in time, he loves the game and the action surrounding it. Of course someday Mark will hang it up, get run over by a bus or whatever . We don’t want to find ourselves in a position depending that there is another Mark Griffin hiding in the weeds ready to step up. I think that is unlikely. Profit generation is what will provide real long-term stability of the amateur leagues and pool in general.

 

[bruin70]

,,,,,Of course someday Mark will hang it up, get run over by a bus or whatever .

that's a cheery thought

 

[Rackin_Zack]

It is true. A basic economic principle is, "profits attract resources!" The only way pool is going to grow is if someone finds a way to make it profitable to investors.

 

[blud]

investors

It is true. A basic economic principle is, "profits attract resources!" The only way pool is going to grow is if someone finds a way to make it profitable to investors.

Zack,
It's called IMAGE,
To many times pool-players complain about this and that, then they dump someone or get out of line. then the would-be-investors, sponsers, have nothing to do with our sport, because of a few who only care about themselves and today.

It's tough action trying to get sponsership. If pool had a better image, maybe we would get a big sponser. Someday it will happen.I have faith in pool and it's players. The greedy ones, do need to get a real JOB.
blud

 

[Colin Colenso]

Profit is a measure of your ability to please customers!

Voluntary transactions imply that both parties find benefit (profit) in partaking in the transaction.

It is a shame that so much socialist dogma has infected peoples such that they think profits are somehow innoble or exploitative.

If "X" business returns a 100% profit, if it is smart, it will expand to the point that capital investment returns around 6-10%. A figure slightly above the cost of borrowing additional capital investment. In doing so, they reach out to the greatest amount of willing consumers. Increasing overall satisfaction.

Hope you enjoyed Economics 101

 

[Pelican]

Zack,
It's called IMAGE,
To many times pool-players complain about this and that, then they dump someone or get out of line. then the would-be-investors, sponsers, have nothing to do with our sport, because of a few who only care about themselves and today.

It's tough action trying to get sponsership. If pool had a better image, maybe we would get a big sponser. Someday it will happen.I have faith in pool and it's players. The greedy ones, do need to get a real JOB.
blud

Howdy Blud, we all know it can be done. Just look at NASCAR. It used to have the bad boy red-neck image. If we had bought in when Bill France was still around we would be 'on top' now .

 

[satman]

How about a little cleansing. A lot of people know who the dumpers and a-holes in our sport is, and we could put a list together and bar them from participation to clean up the sport. Have a tribal council if you will. I believe boxing had that image and sometimes I swear to this day it looks peculiar on some of those punches. Like I said, same rules and guidelines for everyone. Sam

 

[Colin Colenso]

Howdy Blud, we all know it can be done. Just look at NASCAR. It used to have the bad boy red-neck image. If we had bought in when Bill France was still around we would be 'on top' now .

I agree Pelican. It is not the bad boy image that scares away sponsors. In some ways this can me marketed as an advantage for certain brands.

People often think sponsors chase after good sports properties, but in reality, it is the sports property owners or agents that must run to the sponsors. This means that a sport must be able to present an attractive package to sponsors, and this requires talented people who know what and how to sell to sponsors.

This is not an easy business. I know because that is what I do.

In US pool, it is very hard for an independent to do it, because they are limited in their control of things by the associations. So it has to happen through the associations. But rarely are associations able to resource talented sponsorship sellers. If they have a very attractive property they can outsource selling to an agency, but pool needs to take a couple of steps forward before that will happen, and so it has to happen through a private entrepreneur most likely, in cooperation with the associations. Something akin to what Barry Hearn has done with Matchroom Sports.

 

[sjm]

There's not only nothing wrong with profit, there's something wrong with not-for-profit when it comes to pool.

The "holier than thou" stance of some who believe that running pool leagues for profit is somehow expoitative of pool players is somewhat ridiculous. This is not meant to suggest that those aligned with ACS don't have very good intentions and high hope for the game we love, just that they are missing the boat when it comes to the most likely path to the growth of our sport.

As others in this thread have argued, profit is the driving force behind reallocation of resources in our economy. If the pool playing community hopes to attract more investment from corporate entities, it needs to establish itself as a sector within the economy meriting incremental investment. If Mr Griffin and his associates succeed, they themselves and other corporate entities will have every reason to increase the funding for this sport, and we all win.

 

[Pelican]

OK Colin, how bout this - Corp sponsored teams. Something along the lines of Mosconi Cup. Start with say 12 five man teams playing a round robin or similar circuit. Teams will be owned much like the NASCAR teams are and be sponsored by whom ever the team owner can get - beer folks, UPS, Procter & Gamble, who ever. Use a salary cap to prevent one rich butt face from loading up a team. Players negotiate thru agents. Have the teams operate out of major cities (again like NFL or Baseball) to build a spirit of team support by locality. Owners enter into contract to form the NPL, National Pool League. Have a regular season, playoffs, and then the two top teams play an extended format; 9 ball, 8 ball, 14.1, one pocket, and banks for a Super Bowl of Pool. It'd be wild.

 

[highsea]

There's not only nothing wrong with profit, there's something wrong with not-for-profit when it comes to pool.

The "holier than thou" stance of some who believe that running pool leagues for profit is somehow expoitative of pool players is somewhat ridiculous.

I agree. Businesses have to be profitable to be successful. The cue manufacturer, table manufacturer, the bar or pool room you play in, all have to make money to keep the doors open.

I hope for the best for Mr. Griffin and the BCA league system. I believe that he is a good businessman, a genuine pool fan, and in a good position to assist the growth of pool leagues and local tournaments in the US.

JMHO, but if you can run a successful pool hall in Anchorage, Alaska, I think you are probably smarter than the average bear, and you should not be taken as a lightweight. I hope the players give Mr. Griffin a chance.

-CM

 

[highsea]

Teams will be owned much like the NASCAR teams are and be sponsored by whom ever the team owner can get - beer folks, UPS, Procter & Gamble, who ever. Use a salary cap to prevent one rich butt face from loading up a team.

Or maybe Combat Billiards, something like English Snooker, where the players can duke it out later...

j/k Pel, BTW, I'm the 3rd. piling from the bridge. Are we neighbors?

-CM

 

[Pelican]

Or maybe Combat Billiards, something like English Snooker, where the players can duke it out later...

j/k Pel, BTW, I'm the 3rd. piling from the bridge. Are we neighbors?

-CM

Might be, can you see this from your piling?

 

[highsea]

Might be, can you see this from your piling?

Oh,You know I can!
I love her! Makes me think of Atlas Imperials, but a Crown is probably closer.

I grew up on NW Salmon Trollers, so nuff said, but I love those old harbor tugs. Yours looks alot like the old Columbia River boats, where you at? Is that an AL number? Some ex gillnetter? Shrimper?

Classy, Dude.

-CM

 

[highsea]

Might be, can you see this from your piling?

This is my little boat.

-CM

 

[Pelican]

She is the DOLORES CATHERINE, built in 1936 at the Covacevich Shipyard in Biloxi, MS. A. J. (Tony Jack) Covacevich signed off a Master Carpenter. 39.5 feet Biloxi Lugger. Was used for shrimping and oystering. Had a forward pulling mast which I have removed. Forwad house has been added over cargo/ice hole. Power is 4/53 Detroit. Makes 7.5 knots at 1600 rpm. Below is picture before mast was removed. I am in south Alabama about 10 miles from the Gulf of Mexico. I live on a river with access to Mobile Bay and the Gulf.

Beautiful boat you have. Tell me about her.

 

[highsea]

Beautiful boat you have. Tell me about her.
QUOTE]
I was going to guess oystering also. I just love commercial boats. That detroit is not original, though.

Highsea is a Bluewater Ingrid, 40' by 12' by 6', 18 tons. I built her from a bare hull in 1993/94 in Seattle. She carries just under 1100 sq. ft. of sail, and is powered by a 2-cyl. 20 hp. Chinese diesel that weighs 985 lbs! The hull is glass, but everything else is wood.

She was originally built as a fishing boat for Southeast Alaska, and was rigged as a junk schooner. I returned the rig to the original ketch configuration when I rebuilt her.

-CM

 

[frankncali]

OK Colin, how bout this - Corp sponsored teams. Something along the lines of Mosconi Cup. Start with say 12 five man teams playing a round robin or similar circuit. Teams will be owned much like the NASCAR teams are and be sponsored by whom ever the team owner can get - beer folks, UPS, Procter & Gamble, who ever. Use a salary cap to prevent one rich butt face from loading up a team. Players negotiate thru agents. Have the teams operate out of major cities (again like NFL or Baseball) to build a spirit of team support by locality. Owners enter into contract to form the NPL, National Pool League. Have a regular season, playoffs, and then the two top teams play an extended format; 9 ball, 8 ball, 14.1, one pocket, and banks for a Super Bowl of Pool. It'd be wild.

This has been my point of view for a while. 12 five man teams would be tough but it could be done. I would want smaller teams at the beggining to
keep the level of play high. I would get the sponsors first and give them the world for the first couple years as it would need to grow. Maybe even
have a draft. It could be done with a PPV webcast with a small $$ for us
to watch. After which the teams play once a month or twice a month and
then a play off and a champion. Keep the games quick with a shot clock as
to me it seems the good players are getting slower and slower.
A non major network could even be used to try and get it started.
With only a few players on each side there would be no need for a lot of tables and huge venues. It would also keep the stands looking full.
I dont think at first you would get any fans traveling to watch but if you kept the towns close you might get some regional loyalty.
I think the key would be the guaranteed exposure for the sponsors and the
network getting a good deal. The players would have to realize that this
would be a beginning and the $$ would not be upfront but hopefully on the
end.
Now with all the casino events the casino chains themselves could sponsor
a few teams and have the events in their locations. It would not have to be their prime locations but locations where people can attend and not have
to travel to Vegas or elsewhere. They could even sponsor the teams in
other cities but be guaranteed the rights to playoffs or the championship.
The body running it would need to plan a set way to move up in ranks and become an official PRO like all other sports do.
I think the biggest problem would be getting the players to agree to something that they are not paid $$$$$ for. I am not sure if most would be
willing to take one for thier sport and try to get it to grow.