What Is Wrong With These Guys?

Allen Brown said:
Pros dont have money. Its the hard working people that have the money. Im sure there would be people to back some of the pros, as people backed you, but when it comes down to it pros dont usually post their own. Although im sure there are rare occssions nowadays, but its the average joes that have the cash.
Click to expand...


I was thinking that certainly there must be some match ups that would be intriguing and in which both sides think they have the best of it. Some bad blood won't hurt either :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
TATE said:
That was the original premise for TAR. Justin and Big Nasty hit on something pool didn't have at the time - streamed gambling matches for large purses. The backers dried up pretty quickly (unless your name was Shane). Ultimately, once the backers dried up, it became a business and the business was unsustainable.

The reason why you and John succeeded in attracting an audience was the build up, not the dollars. The publicity and marketing of a grudge match has a long, successful history. John is the perfect antagonist in my opinion and having him as an opponent was the key to your success. The audience knew it wasn't a staged grudge, it was the real deal playing for a large enough purse to matter.

The other thing is, we see the pros playing each other all the time. Too much exposure. I'm not sure that huge dollars would make much of a difference.
Click to expand...


I agree -- we do see the pros all the time so maybe there would be little interest. back when Earl and Efren did the first COM that was kinda unique.

Lou Figueroa
 
JB Cases said:
I fully agree.

However I think that the real reason is that at that level they know that they aren't stealing against any other professional. And the backers know it as well.

So all they are left with is barking.

Comes down to the old player joke, two players are in the hotel room sleeping and one of them is having a bad nightmare. The other one wakes up and see this and shakes his buddy awake. He says, "what's wrong?" The one who had the nightmare says, "I dreamed I was playing for $25,000." The other one says, "and why is that bad?"

"It was my own money" is the reply.
Click to expand...


lol.

Lou Figueroa
 
sjm said:
As others have noted, pro players, for the most part, don't have the money to bet big, so unless there are backers, no big money match happens.

I think that the number of backers for big money matches is so small because a) the danger of a dump, nonpayment, or some other unethical behavior is always there when big money is on the line and b) the gapper one must pay to one's horse if they win amounts to giving odds on the money.

Back in the day, gamblers had a chance to stay under the radar. In this era in which most everybody knows the speed of most everybody else, being a stake-horse is not a very attractive proposition for people with money.
Click to expand...


Yes, there is a bit of taint, unfortunately.

Lou Figueroa
 
liakos said:
Personally, I like watching 2 semi-pros like you and John play! You guys make the game much more interesting! Don't get me wrong, I like watching the game played at the highest levels, but I like watching you guys play because the game is much more "real"!
Click to expand...


I can't tell you how many people have told me that. They all say that they could really identify with the pressure, how we struggled, missed, and occasionally hit a great shot or ran a few. It was good theatre.

Lou Figueroa
of the absurd :-o
 
Last edited:
lfigueroa said:
I was thinking that certainly there must be some match ups that would be intriguing and in which both sides think they have the best of it. Some bad blood won't hurt either :-)

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

How about an annual ladder competition with a title sponsor and revenue stream from live streaming of matches? Give a bonus to the top player at the end of the year and pay each player a portion of the proceeds from each match. It has the potential to create rivalries and some barking, but eliminates the need for backers and reduces the motivation to "dump" a match.
 
one stroke said:
They don't have the bankroll for one and what I found is they generally won't play in a game that my be deemed even ,, just doesn't happen much,, golf is the same way and although most don't think it's a big gambler sport ,, theirs probably 10 times or better money changing hands on a golf course than on a pool table ,, Phil's a notorious gambler
But you never here much about it ,, the merry Mex once said real pressure was playing a 5 dollar Nassau when you have no money in your pocket ,, but never do they match up
Guess that's part of professionalism

1
Click to expand...


It's too bad that's the way it is nowadays. My sense is that in the old days there were more money challenges. Even some of the "world championships" were a challenge type type deal.

Lou Figueroa
 
Mr. Bass Man said:
Why not have a kick starter type site devoted to specific player money matches. Each patron could simply donate a small portion to the purse in order that their chosen horse could match up financially and then all side bets would be properly dealt with.
Click to expand...


Scary.

Lou Figueroa
 
PINKLADY said:
every post herein is solid.

i will add, that we were GLUED to the TV for the Lou/JB match! we even hooked y'all up to the BIG screen! the hype for that match was huge. it became personal for everyone, cause we all feel as if we know yáll & are invested. hell, i bet everyone would have coughed up $10 for the stream.

same for OMGWTF matches. or ChicagoRJ's Rhea match. or Harriman/Schmidt - how many AZBers offered to pay up to $30PPV for that?

Lou & John were able to get their acts together & execute. if the pros played each other all the time, wouldn't it simply be flipping cash?
Click to expand...


I think there has to be some personal investment or familiarity with the players maybe. A history of bad blood doesn't hurt either so you're probably right that just two pros knocking heads isn't the best of ideas.

Lou Figueroa
 
Last edited:
gatorchad said:
How about an annual ladder competition with a title sponsor and revenue stream from live streaming of matches? Give a bonus to the top player at the end of the year and pay each player a portion of the proceeds from each match. It has the potential to create rivalries and some barking, but eliminates the need for backers and reduces the motivation to "dump" a match.
Click to expand...


There could still be problems, like with gappers. I'm pretty sure that there was not a single solitary soul who thought John and I had agreed to a gapper.

Lou Figueroa
 
JB Cases said:
One guy was able to execute, the other one got executed. :-)
Click to expand...

:rotflmao1: you do have a sense of humor!

i'll tell you who i would like to see, and i've kept my mouth shut for almost a year:

CJ v KEITH

now that, i would think, would be a solid "pro" match that could pull PPV money! otherwise, i see the pros play every day, every week, every year, yada yada....
 
lfigueroa said:
I can't tell you how many people have told me that. They all say that they could really identify with the pressure, how we struggled, missed, and occasionally hit a great shot or ran a few. It was good theatre.

Lou Figueroa
of the absurd :-o
Click to expand...

I am sure you will be happy to know that Ken Thomason, the former owner of Hard Times in LA, told me at the CSI-BCAPL event that he watched every ball of our match and was fully engrossed the whole time. Even though he has been witness to some of the greatest one pocket the planet has ever seen during the years he owned that iconic room he said that it was thrilling for him to watch us go at it.
 
lfigueroa said:
My question is pretty simple: What is wrong with the pros that they cannot get their kitty litter in one big bunch and target a challenge to another top player?

For years, JB and I nipped at each other. And when it came down to it, we played a challenge match for $10K. JB put up most of his, I chose to incorporate. But we played, there was anticipation, a stream, lots of viewers.

Why cannot ___________ (insert the player of your choice) come up with the dough to challenge another player for a sizable chunk. And I don't mean the $10K JB and I played for -- why not $25K, $50K, or $100K. (Yes, I know Earl and Efren did that way back when, but I believe a promoter put up the money.)

Certainly, someone must like: JA, RM, DA, MD, SVB, Name Any Filipino, Name Any Chinese Player, Name Any Taiwanese Player, Name Any European MC Player enough to say: I want to play_________ for $50Large.

I think it'd be huge :-)

What's up with that?

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...
I know most people disagree with me, but I thought your match with JB was ego-driven stupidity, and not in the least bit honorable. It definitely doesn't make me think "why doesn't everyone do this?" More like "Im glad I have more self-control and common sense than these guys."

It was fun to watch, in the same way that people are drawn to car accidents.

I suppose it comes down to your view of gambling. Personally I'm much more interested in tourneys like that World Cup of Pool. Sports not, gambling. I know most people disagree with me, but I think a sizable minority agrees.
 
C-a-s-i-n-o

The players need backers. The backers have found other places they would prefer to put their money in action. The pool halls are dead because of an overabundance of real casinos, truck stop casinos, and poker machines in every café. I started to open a café a few years back myself. The café owner's cut of the two poker machines allowed worked out to $30,000 a year. One truck stop opened up with two 250 gallon skid tanks and forty or more poker machines!

Gambling everywhere has killed the 26 BILLION dollar horse racing industry. It is dying a lingering death due to the casinos being forced to subsidize horse racing but the last horse track in New England is shutting down right now. Horse tracks across the country have disappeared and soon there won't be but a handful in the nation once the casinos weasel out of carrying the ones they are carrying.

Big time gambling at pool was just a small unnoticed victim of casino gambling. They have overbuilt until they not only sucked all other gambling into a vacuum, they are now cannibalizing each other. Casinos are starting to fall like dominos. Unfortunately they are tied to politicians and government so we will probably never be rid of them, maybe they will go away right after that temporary tax the yankees started to help win the war of northern aggression!

Hu
 
BRussell said:
I know most people disagree with me, but I thought your match with JB was ego-driven stupidity, and not in the least bit honorable. It definitely doesn't make me think "why doesn't everyone do this?" More like "Im glad I have more self-control and common sense than these guys."

It was fun to watch, in the same way that people are drawn to car accidents.

I suppose it comes down to your view of gambling. Personally I'm much more interested in tourneys like that World Cup of Pool. Sports not, gambling. I know most people disagree with me, but I think a sizable minority agrees.
Click to expand...


The difference is this.

These 2 guys went through all the emotions of this match from the proposal, the woofing, the barking, backing out for whatever reason at least a half dozen times before this match ever came to fruition.

Both of them I am sure would tell you they thought the same thing as you many times. But the constant banter back and forth between the 2 went on for YEARS...not days or even months.

Lou and John's backs were against the wall many times during the course of this "friendly" discussion. But after many years they both decided to get it over with. And now, i see a lighter side to both individuals as of late especially. A mutual respect if you will between the 2 as they can now post in the same thread and without the call to action.

Sometimes, a pissing contest is the only way to settle things. Both of them put it out there and IMO maybe came away from the game a bit better competitively, mentally, and respectfully.

That's just my take anyway...hell, I may piss them both off!! :p
 
I think you're right Ky Boy. It was just the "what we did was so awesome why doesn't everyone do this" vibe to the thread that got me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top