what kind of tool is needed for this?
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JC
Coos Cues
Almost everything disassembles with power tools at a time saving advantage. Pool tables are no exception. All power drivers are not impact design. Assembly too with good sense and a good touch. Not final torque but snug. All those tiny wrist motions you can avoid add up over time. Not everyone can effectively use power tools I have noticed. Those who can't are right to shun them. It's part science and part art. The best table mechanic in the world has a trailer full of power tools and uses them like Michelangelo..:smile:
JC
Coos Cues
Mark Gregory has a trailer?
You're killing me!:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:
BTW I can definitely see how a guy would want to keep those pins under control on the wrench head for those bolts. Nice and sharp. By hand may be the ticket there for sure.
JC
This would be very nice if the span is correct. The problem with the original tool as mentioned is having to use a bit brace. They work fine if you have patience and pay attention. If not and since the pins on the readily available spanner tools aren't designed very well they can easily slip out (called Cam Out) and damage the holes in the bolts and the pins.
Those that scoff at impacts need to take another look. For REMOVAL ONLY a small impact would be ideal if the spanner tool was available with a female square. Unfortunately its not, but, when using an impact the problem with cam out is drastically reduced. Next time you see a deck being built on a house by a professional, notice what tool they're using to drive deck screws. Impacts are the tool of choice since they won't strip out the pockets of those cheap China screws due to Cam Outs and it saves their wrist from the reaction of a screw gun.
Lastly there are discontinuous drive battery tools and air tools similar to an impact wrench design that will give you repeatable torque. The issue with these although is you have to set them for a specific job. For instance even if both rail bolts and frame bolts have the same torque spec., the setting would still be different for each job. The 2 jobs have different joint rates. Once properly set, these tools are easily as accurate and repeatable as a guy using a click wrench since 90% of operators don't know how to run a torque wrench.
Question: Placing your hand close to the head of a click wrench gives you more torque or less applied torque when it clicks of? What does adding a cheater bar do to torque result? Most ME's even get this one wrong.
where your hand is placed nor using a cheater bar changes the amount of applied torque at the pivot point. a cheater bar just lowers the amount of force needed to reach the required value.
http://www.ehow.com/about_5041233_effect-using-extensions-torque-wrenches.html
If you have a different theory, please elaborate.
EHow is completely wrong on this point. Whoever wrote that piece of hogwash hasn't a clue.
It's true that the longer the lever length the less force is required to achieve a certain torque. 1lb of force 1' from the pivot point = 1ft/lb. 2ft from the pivot with 1lb of force =2ft/lbs and at 2ft from the pivot point it only required 1lb of force to = 2ft/lbs. The writer should have shut up after he made this point.
What he fails to realize is there's 2 pivot points in a click wrench. The socket and the click mechanism. A cheater bar makes it easier to get the wrench to click. Assuming you stop turning the fastener when the wrench clicks, less torque is applied to the fastener.
If you short grip a wrench (move your hand closer to the socket) it requires more force to activate the click mechanism and you've applied more torque than what the wrench is set to.
If you add an extension to the front of the wrench, making it longer from that end, hand position becomes really sensitive. I'm not talking about a standard socket extension, these don't change the length of the wrench.
JC
Coos Cues
I've been wrenching for so long I really have no use for a torque wrench on something as inaccurate as a pool table. But if it makes you feel like you're doing a better job and it impresses the client then go for it.
JC
JC
Coos Cues
The torque at which the wrench clicks has no relationship to the length of the handle used to achieve it. The longer lever simply allows you to apply less pressure to achieve the torque. Think of a see saw at the park. If you are on one end and your child on the other end you will shoot them up in the air with ease. Now scoot yourself toward the center and it will get harder and harder to lift them. The child did not lose weight to make this happen, it still takes the same force to lift them.
JC
I am really curious what you mean by this? A "click" type torque wrench simply has a "break-away" when you reach the set torque. I have never taken apart my digital torque wrenches but I assume they have a load cell and a beam type torque wrench you can see how they work by using them.
If you are talking about the fastener that goes thru the click type wrenches near the head, or the "break-away" section of the torque wrench that is not affected by adding a pipe to the end of a torque wrench. The only thing that would affect accuracy would be changing the length between the socket drive and "break-away" parts of the torque wrench.
You ask for clarity on this: What he fails to realize is there's 2 pivot points in a click wrench. The socket and the click mechanism. A cheater bar makes it easier to get the wrench to click. Assuming you stop turning the fastener when the wrench clicks, less torque is applied to the fastener.
I hope this crude drawing of a typical torque wrench will help you understand.
View attachment 1 Click Wrench Drawing.pdf
A click wrench has a break in the system vs a ratchet wrench. That break is the other pivot point. The break is the mechanism that creates the CLICK. If you look you see the Spring, Toggle Slide Bar and Load Lever. The spring tensions all this stuff up. The more tension created by the spring the more force is required to get the Toggle to roll over. When the Toggle Rolls over it slams into the side of the Housing (wrench tube) creating the click. If I increase the length of the housing with a cheater is should be obvious it will take less force to make the Toggle roll over. If less force is applied to the socket then we get less torque applied to the fastener.
When I talk about "the fastener" I'm talking about the screw or bolt that's being installed and is the 2nd pivot point.
You're correct that an Electronic Torque wrench has a strain gauge. It's not really like a beam wrench but for visual, yes. Even these tools are effected by hand position. Some more than others. The really good ones try to eliminate the issue with software and adding more strain gauges. $$$
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JC
Coos Cues
Believe it or not I understand what you're saying. I have never given much thought to how a click type torque wrench actually works even though I own scads of them. Thanks for the explanation, no video required.
I prefer my dial type for precise applications. Clickers are for wheels and such. I still see no place in pool table assembly for a torque wrench.
JC
The working length of the handle will make it easier for the user to apply torque but it will in no way change the accuracy of the break-away mechanism in the torque wrench. 100ft lbs will be 100ft lbs no matter how long you make the handle. The measured torque of the wrench is determined by the square drive socket adaptor and the mounting point of the break-away assembly inside the handle of the torque wrench, obviously this does not change when making the handle longer or shorter.
Ok I'll let someone else explain. I'm not the best communicator for sure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsMxtEx0uik
Wish he showed the increase in torque making it longer in front of the square rather than only from the handle. If needed I'll supply you with the calculation formulas via PM.
JC
Coos Cues
I thought that too until I thought about it more in depth. You don't have to be an engineer to understand why this is the way it is. High school level math will suffice. I was initially wrong and so are you. No disgrace in that.
JC
Maybe look at it this way.
Your lever is working against the toggle or cam not the bolt, The bolt you're turning is just going along for the ride. Change the lever length and the toggle break over point is determined by the lever length. This is why all torque wrenches either indicate where the center of the handle is or make sure there's no other way. A beam wrench usually has a floating handle or small ball to grab or some other such thing like a "T" handle @ 90degrees....
On a mechanical loader used for calibration and certification, the push bar is always in the center of the handle. When I do torque audits on med and small bolts I pull the wrench with 1 finger, when possible, in the middle of the handle. My other fingers only support/guide the tool.
Your lever is working against the toggle or cam not the bolt, The bolt you're turning is just going along for the ride. Change the lever length and the toggle break over point is determined by the lever length. This is why all torque wrenches either indicate where the center of the handle is or make sure there's no other way. A beam wrench usually has a floating handle or small ball to grab or some other such thing like a "T" handle @ 90degrees....
On a mechanical loader used for calibration and certification, the push bar is always in the center of the handle. When I do torque audits on med and small bolts I pull the wrench with 1 finger, when possible, in the middle of the handle. My other fingers only support/guide the tool.
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