What level am I?

[RobMan]

Reall really hard to have ratings that mean anything across the globe, country, or even region for that matter.

On 9 ft tables, Based on some ghost nine and ten ball skill scoring posted on Dr Dave's site, I am a B- to B player. This is after many many racks over the last few years. Yet I generally struggle to get into the 30's in straight pool runs.

I played as a 7/8 in APA eight and nine ball respectively. No way was I really that high; I mean 7 is the highest in 8 ball. I played as a 6 in 9ball and five in 8 in TAP (or is it the other way around?). I think like a 110 in NAPA for the two seasons I played. Again all on nine footers.

I guess what I am saying, is ratings are quite subjective.


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[justadub]

APA is a strange animal with winner break format and ANY SLOP GOES, so you can be the best in the league and lose to a novice on a single mistake, because of the handicap system. That is, if you're a 6 facing a 3, you have to win 6, they have to win 2 to win the match. Your W/L percentage is not based on games won, but matches, you can run out 90% of your racks and have a losing record if your captain puts you up against low-ranked players and they squeak out two racks somehow.

Mind you, also you'll likely be playing on bar boxes often enough, and no guarantee that they're in good shape. 2s, 3s, and some 4s can be bad enough players that dog shots that smash up the pattern you were hoping for, it's not uncommon to have a low-rank APA player repeatedly screw you over on a small little slow table with horrible rails.

2s are so bad they probably shouldn't play pool at all. They're probably 50/50 on any shot over 3 feet and have almost no concept of position. It takes a *lot* of losses to drop down to a 2.

A lot of new players end up as 3s for a few seasons. Ball bangers and below usually, or very susceptible to nervous jitters. Will dog shots, usually cannot go more than one rail for position if they even think of position.

By default they start you at a 4... Most 4s are weak pattern players, expect 4-5 ball runs at the very most from them before they lose position and hook themselves. They also will about 5% of the time miss hangers.

5s are wildcards they can be aggressive shooters who get lucky on small tables, or they can be really good strategists who just don't have a dependable stroke and consistent speed control yet. At that level you actually see some semblance of competent safety play, but they usually aren't skilled enough to make their safety without giving you one to play back at them. They break and run less than 10% of the time, and have a hard time breaking up problem clusters without risking hooking themselves some other way. If they're smart at all, they'll play a safety at you to try to get you to foul so they can solve their clusters with ball in hand.

6s also can include a wide range of play styles, some are really good strokers who just haven't broken through the mental level to be a serious contender, others have some experience but try too hard to show how much they can spin the ball and screw themselves over here and there. Others are old-timers who never really worked on the game before they got set in their ways who have just peaked. Break and run maybe 15-20% of the time.

7+ Anything 7 or over who is still playing APA is your local dive bar hero who could probably make an amateur tournament worth his time except he probably doesn't practice enough or doesn't have the personality to handle losing. Most importantly if you're a 6-7, you had better handle boredom and/or drinking very well, because you'll usually play at the very end of the night after sitting around for 4-5 hours watching players hack away at balls, and you'll probably have to throw several drinks back to handle all of that. Note also that as 7 or above you will likely be the best on your team by far so having a practice buddy is not usually in the cards, because of the skill cap (you can only put up a limited number of high-rank players in APA on any one night)

Basically against a 2 or a 3 you try the runout every time, you shouldn't count on them reliably hitting back-cuts, most combos, or cutting balls down a rail. Against 5 or 6 you can probably start clearing the rack and trust they won't be able to get out of a well-played safety if you're unable to solve your problem balls for the runout. Against a 7, if you don't think you stand a good chance of solving your problem cluster, play the safety while you still have a lot of soldiers on the table because the winner break format and the fact you're probably playing a race to 5 could punish you if you leave them an opening, although with any luck they'll have been drinking enough by then that they won't string multiple racks together.

A lot of what you have written here is accurate, or at least can be in some situations, despite the condescending manner in which you wrote it. Skippy corrected the biggest contentions.... I would like to remind you that 9-ball is a slop game no matter where you play it. Sure, some scenarios require you to call the 9, but even that's not universal.

I've played APA a fairly long time now, and I'm always amazed at the contention that throwing off (lower Skill Level player versus the higher Skill Level) is a great strategy. It's been my experience that the higher skill level player wins the majority of the time, at least around here, and especially in 8-ball. Sometimes the point-race format of 9-ball lends itself to a lower level player being able to win in that scenario, but 8-ball, and controlling the table....does it happen, sure. But not often. At least here.

It's funny, reading your interpretations. Most of the higher level players we have here don't seem to mind playing with us lesser creatures. They are encouraging, trying to help the players and their teams. I guess it's just a function of the type of people they are..........

 

[Island Drive]

That would be Gene Stary who founded the USPPA along with the math guy who developed the system. The problem with those ratings is that there was a score sheet that counted misses and safeties. The room where I played had a table with around 4-inch pockets that no one, except maybe Varner, could run out on. People who played in that room were rated maybe 20% below the "correct" ratings. That gave us a big advantage in the regional tournaments. Also, there were reports of rooms that just padded innings, either during or after the matches.

With all its faults, the USPPA had many successful tournaments both locally and in Reno. It ended sadly: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=213553

Thx Bob for the clarification, John Lewis told me long ago about em.......I played in one of his Reno events that occurred along side the pro event, and many pros did enter this, was a good tune up, I actually won one of em yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeears ago . Tommy Baker got the ''sister kister''.

 

[Gorramjayne]

A lot of what you have written here is accurate, or at least can be in some situations, despite the condescending manner in which you wrote it....
It's funny, reading your interpretations. Most of the higher level players we have here don't seem to mind playing with us lesser creatures. They are encouraging, trying to help the players and their teams. I guess it's just a function of the type of people they are..........

No condescension intended, I consider myself a hack player and think APA is great fun if the social atmosphere is as important as the pool to you, and the coaching is an important aspect. It wasn't all that long ago I was just learning the game. The OP just noted that he was starting as a 4 and was way too apprehensive about letting people down and what his strategy should be so I was trying to be as honest as possible about the skill levels.

You're right that it's usually a disadvantage to play a lower player against a higher one unless you know that your player is badly under-ranked (or you know your 2 is hopeless so you feed them to the other team's 7 so you can hold your 6 back to play one of their 5s). Yup, you'll usually play someone equally matched unless both teams are short-handed and you have no option but to put up a mismatch, which does happen more than it should.

Two additional points of caution to OP:

If you're 20% break-and-run player or better, do NOT join a team that has a lot of 5+ players, you'll rank up very quickly then probably find yourself not playing very often because the skill levels of the five players your team puts up for the night can only add up to so many points.

If you are an experienced and skilled player, when you can, avoid playing 3s and 4s to start. Especially if you're playing out of bars, you probably will have to deal with very slow cloth which will take away some of your skill advantage. Also, if you lose the lag, you'll be stuck struggling to clean up the weak break that most 4s and under have, particularly in bar table 8 ball. You'll have to play a lot of extra innings to clean it up and that will keep your rank from being where it should, which means you'll be stuck playing lesser skilled players for a while. While it's better for the team to keep your rank low, it might not be all that fun for you if you're really in it for trying to play the best pool.