What little detail am I forgetting?

CaptainJR

Shiver me timbers.
Silver Member
A little detail I was forgetting.

Read reply 13 and 14 first and you'll understand the misunderstandings here a little better. LOL sorry Now on with the original post.

I choke to much. Of course even one is to much, but I do it from time to time. What I mean by a choke is, missing a shot that I definitely shouldn't miss.

Of course for a long time now I've been wondering why I do this. I look at the shot, decide what I need to do with it (english, etc.) aim, shoot and miss. Right after this happens I think about it and try to figure out what I did. In my mind, I know that I was aiming correctly to make the shot. I come up with things like, 'I wasn't concentrating', 'took it for granted', but these were not the answer. What wasn't I concentrating on? What did I take for granted? What detail did I overlook? I mean we are talking about a shot that I would expect to make 100 percent of the time. Yea, I know that 100 percent is an exaggeration, but it emphasizes what I'm talking about. I don't know exactly when I realized it, but I think I have come up with the answer to this question. For me anyway, I'm probably the only person in the world that is this dumb.

Anytime I'm using a lot of english on any shot or even a little english on a tougher shot, I pay attention and compensate for deflection. I think on these easy shots that I'm choking on, I'm overlooking deflection. I'm not sure that it is this alone, but I think it is the main culprit. Part of it might be that I don't pay enough attention to making the ball in the exact center of the pocket, you know, thinking like...'this is easy, just pocket the ball'. A little off from center pocket combined with not compensating for that little bit of deflection and @#$$%R^%%$%. Where on a shot this easy, you might get away with ignoring one or the other, you combine the two and it equals...cough, cough, gag, gag, (choke)

What do I attribute to me finally figuring this out after all these years. All the discussions about deflection on this forum. So I'm now certain, without a doubt, that I'm going to have a better pool game because of my friends here on AZBilliards.

Thank you
CaptJR
 
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CaptainJR said:
I choke to much. Of course even one is to much, but I do it from time to time. What I mean by a choke is, missing a shot that I definitely shouldn't miss.

Of course for a long time now I've been wondering why I do this. I look at the shot, decide what I need to do with it (english, etc.) aim, shoot and miss. Right after this happens I think about it and try to figure out what I did. In my mind, I know that I was aiming correctly to make the shot. I come up with things like, 'I wasn't concentrating', 'took it for granted', but these were not the answer. What wasn't I concentrating on? What did I take for granted? What detail did I overlook? I mean we are talking about a shot that I would expect to make 100 percent of the time. Yea, I know that 100 percent is an exaggeration, but it emphasizes what I'm talking about. I don't know exactly when I realized it, but I think I have come up with the answer to this question. For me anyway, I'm probably the only person in the world that is this dumb.

Anytime I'm using a lot of english on any shot or even a little english on a tougher shot, I pay attention and compensate for deflection. I think on these easy shots that I'm choking on, I'm overlooking deflection. I'm not sure that it is this alone, but I think it is the main culprit. Part of it might be that I don't pay enough attention to making the ball in the exact center of the pocket, you know, thinking like...'this is easy, just pocket the ball'. A little off from center pocket combined with not compensating for that little bit of deflection and @#$$%R^%%$%. Where on a shot this easy, you might get away with ignoring one or the other, you combine the two and it equals...cough, cough, gag, gag, (choke)

What do I attribute to me finally figuring this out after all these years. All the discussions about deflection on this forum. So I'm now certain, without a doubt, that I'm going to have a better pool game because of my friends here on AZBilliards.

Thank you
CaptJR


Oh oh....sounds like another rocket scientist in the making along with a Z Predator purchase. :eek:
 
CaptainJR said:
I think on these easy shots that I'm choking on, I'm overlooking deflection.
If this is the problem, won't you always miss in the same direction? For example, if you shoot a shot with left spin and miss because of deflection, you missed to the left of the pocket, right? Not that I am doubting your insight into your own game. We know ourselves better than anyone else does, usually.

I sometimes understand more about my game than I want to. When I miss an easy shot, it's usually not from deflection; it really is because I took the shot for granted and never bothered to aim at all. I find that it is downright hard to concentrate on every shot, a major effort.

merry christmas and all that,
longhair
 
longhair said:
If this is the problem, won't you always miss in the same direction? For example, if you shoot a shot with left spin and miss because of deflection, you missed to the left of the pocket, right? Not that I am doubting your insight into your own game. We know ourselves better than anyone else does, usually.

I sometimes understand more about my game than I want to. When I miss an easy shot, it's usually not from deflection; it really is because I took the shot for granted and never bothered to aim at all. I find that it is downright hard to concentrate on every shot, a major effort.

merry christmas and all that,
longhair


i'm going to go along with longhair on this one. unless you are ONLY missing shots that would require you to compensate, then its something else. like he stated above, its probably something else. alot of times you may actually think you aimed the shot correctly but since its such and easy shot your mind just took it for granted. also sometimes when you take an easy shot for granted you get lazy and may actually stroke the ball wrong i.e. glancing off the side of the cue ball. you know yourself better than anyone, but a digital camera won't lie. tape yourself playing, and when you miss those shots you are talking about check out the tape. what what you are doing (the time you take on the shot, your alignment, and your actual stroke) compare it to those hard shots you make, and also watch what the cue ball does. its funny how you will think you are doing something, then you watch the tape and its the exact opposite.

hope this helps

thanks
 
longhair said:
If this is the problem, won't you always miss in the same direction? For example, if you shoot a shot with left spin and miss because of deflection, you missed to the left of the pocket, right? Not that I am doubting your insight into your own game. We know ourselves better than anyone else does, usually.

I sometimes understand more about my game than I want to. When I miss an easy shot, it's usually not from deflection; it really is because I took the shot for granted and never bothered to aim at all. I find that it is downright hard to concentrate on every shot, a major effort.

merry christmas and all that,
longhair

Everyone is an individual of course. You mention 'left spin' etc. etc. No, you won't always miss the shot in the same direction. The combinations are endless. If I'm off center pocket in the opposite direction, then I make the shot anyway by accident and the issue would never come up. I knew that is wasn't, as you suggest, that I never bothered to aim at all. That I would have figured out a long time ago.
 
vapoolplayer said:
unless you are ONLY missing shots that would require you to compensate
thanks

I, and from what I understand most every good pool player, use at least some english on 97% of my shots. And all these shots require compensation. It was all the talk about deflection on this board that made me start thinking about it more and realize that I wasn't giving it much attention on easier shots.
 
CaptainJR said:
I, and from what I understand most every good pool player, use at least some english on 97% of my shots. And all these shots require compensation. It was all the talk about deflection on this board that made me start thinking about it more and realize that I wasn't giving it much attention on easier shots.

what do you mean by the above statement? if by that you mean that no one hits the exact center then yes you are right. but as far as using english on 97 percent.......that doesn't seem quite right. and i believe even in this forum its been adviced that you stay on the centerline i.e. follow, stun, draw most of the time. so i'm not quite sure what you mean by using english on 97 percent of your shots, if you are using english (sidespin) on that many of your shots, you're definitely making it hard on yourself. as for myself, i don't really worry to much about compensating for sidespin, the way i aim by breaking down the ferrule into 5 sections gives me the compensation i need for sidespin and gives me a set aiming point. of course it only works using about a tip of sidespin, which is usually more than enough to get around a 9 ft table.

thanks
 
vapoolplayer said:
what do you mean by the above statement? if by that you mean that no one hits the exact center then yes you are right. but as far as using english on 97 percent.......that doesn't seem quite right. and i believe even in this forum its been adviced that you stay on the centerline i.e. follow, stun, draw most of the time. so i'm not quite sure what you mean by using english on 97 percent of your shots, if you are using english (sidespin) on that many of your shots, you're definitely making it hard on yourself. as for myself, i don't really worry to much about compensating for sidespin, the way i aim by breaking down the ferrule into 5 sections gives me the compensation i need for sidespin and gives me a set aiming point. of course it only works using about a tip of sidespin, which is usually more than enough to get around a 9 ft table.

thanks

Getting off subject a little but that's OK
Where did I come up with 97 percent? Just popped out. Guess I should have said something like, 'the vary great majority' or something like that. You say "if by that you mean that no one hits the exact center then yes you are right. but as far as using english on 97 percent.......that doesn't seem quite right." Using even a little bit of side spin is using english. You here the pros talk about spinning there balls in. You here them say things like 'I use a little helpful spin most of the time'. It may have been advised on the forum to stay center line, but if it was advised by a great player, I think you'll find that what they say and advise is not necessarily what they do.
 
Captain.. I thought you were taking lessons? What you are describing is a fundemental flaw in your bridge stroke sequence. Been there myself. We had a Road Player come through a while back, I payed him 100.00 cash to teach me stroke/ bridge mechanics. He found three major flaws: Flaw 1) my bridge sucked, he showed me the proper way. Flaw 2) My wrist was turning on a hard stroke throwing the Rock off course. Flaw 3) My body was out of alignment for the shot at hand. Hope this helps, it did for me!
 
drivermaker said:
Oh oh....sounds like another rocket scientist in the making along with a Z Predator purchase. :eek:

Well, maybe we can subvert this ...

If you believe that this deflection thing is occasionally a problem, you can test this theory by playing a few matches with no english (side spin). It can be done, but obviously you will not be able to perform some shots for shape. If you do not miss any easier shot then you might be onto something. Note that for the test to be significant one should really count shots taken with some difficulty rating and makes/misses over quite a few matches.

Reasons why I gas easy shots (your milage may vary, but it may not ...) :
#1 - I stand up during the stroke in anticipation of moving to the next shot
#2 - stray thoughts creaping in because I think the shot doesn't require that much concentration (the thoughts are often about the next shot, upcoming trouble, what the score will be after I finish shooting, what did that guy say at the next table ? , etc.)
#3 - I stand up during the stroke
#4 - I second guess my shot selection
#5 - I stand up during the stroke

I take consolation in the story that Jack Nicholas had a teacher who grabbed Jacks hair while he swung a club to stop him from moving his head, and he ended up doing OK ....

Dave
 
cut shot said:
Captain.. I thought you were taking lessons? What you are describing is a fundemental flaw in your bridge stroke sequence. Been there myself. We had a Road Player come through a while back, I payed him 100.00 cash to teach me stroke/ bridge mechanics. He found three major flaws: Flaw 1) my bridge sucked, he showed me the proper way. Flaw 2) My wrist was turning on a hard stroke throwing the Rock off course. Flaw 3) My body was out of alignment for the shot at hand. Hope this helps, it did for me!


Are we all reading the same thread? In what way do you think 'not giving enough attention to deflection' has anything to do with my 'bridge stroke sequence'? Compensating for deflection is a mental thing. Bridge stoke sequence is a physical thing. Certainly both are required, but you can certainly do either without the other. So you can't say I'm not thinking about deflection because my bridge stroke sequence is off. LOL


Not that I don't appreciate the responses in effort to help, but the things your all talking about (stance, grip, stroke, taking the shot for granted, etc.) I had already eliminated. That is why I was bewildered on what was wrong. Maybe I wasn't clear enough on that. I'm not really asking for help, I'm saying I found what I wasn't doing and have seen the results of fixing it.
 
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I see the problem, I put the wrong name to the thread. It should have been "I found a problem" No wonder everyone is trying to help, the title I put is asking a question, duh.
 
I think I meant to title it 'What little detail was I forgetting?

Anyway sorry, I changed the title now.
 
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Captain,

Let’s define choke. To choke or dawg, ruff-ruff, bow-wow arf-arf a shot means, the stroke wasn't executed as planned. That usually means something fundamentally went wrong with the stroke.

Before we completely blame the stroke however there is the mental aspect. During execution on routine or any shot your brain is quiet. When you start thinking during execution is what gets you in trouble. (During means, when you start the cue back) That happens for any number of reasons. Possibly you were not completely settled over the shot, aim. You were unsure of exactly how to play the shot. There was a lot of pressure on the shot, tournament, gambling, personal goal, etc. Whatever, that is self induced.

Once you visualize the shot - you see where the c/b will stop on a well executed stroke. Your mind needs to see this; it doesn't deal well with generalities. If your mind has doubt on any aspect during the pre-shot routine it will show up in your final stroke. You might not think so but many times players get away with near misses. I see it all the time so no one is an exception.

Finally back to the stroke. What happens most of the time on a true choke, it will be too quick. That usually starts with a quick backswing, but not always. Just as important, it lacks forward progression, rather it is a quick jerk forward accompanied with a tight grip. During that time your eyes or head moves off the o/b so you've lost focus before you ever make contact with the c/b.

I prefer to think mental doubt causes eye movement, and then the grip gets tight with a jerk forward. It really all happens at the same time per-say, in a split second. That stroke might be out to in or in to out. You might twist you wrist or you may not, who knows? That all goes back to the need for being completely sure of the shot and your intended execution. Leave any doubt and your open for an error. Ruff-Ruff. LOL

Rather than me diagnose what went wrong you might keep this in mind for stroke mechanics. Slow back - slow forward. Slow back helps promote a slower smooth forward progression. Players might think they do this correct but I see otherwise on most failed shots. Prove it to yourself with a video and a trained eye. Your making a move somewhere.

Mentally, well don’t leave yourself open for any doubt during setup and pre-shot routine. If you do, stand up and start over.



Rod
 
CaptainJR said:
I think I meant to title it 'What little detail was I forgetting?

Anyway sorry, I changed the title now.


Well done Capt'n, now you won't choke on any easy shots anymore :rolleyes:

Dave
 
Hell, I'm in deep enough already, so I might as well start a flame war. LOL

As I mentioned above, most of the blame belongs on me because I named the thread wrong. However, I think I'm going to use this to complain about something I've seen on the forum before that didn't set right with me. Don't forget now that I am admitting that most of the blame is on me for not naming the thread right in the first place. BUT

If you had read the entire first post of the thread, you should have been able to see that I wasn't asking for help, I was stating a solution. Some of the responses I got here were obviously from someone who read the first one or two sentences and thought 'OH choking I have a solution for that'. and if they read the entire post they would have seen that the normal solutions for choking was not what I was talking about. Thus the start of my one reply "Are we reading the same thread?" Of course that was before I realized that I had named it wrong.

So maybe before replying to a post one might at least read the entirety of the original post.

On the other hand. If I had been asking for help about choking, all the replies I got were good sound advice.
 
CaptainJR said:
If you had read the entire first post of the thread, you should have been able to see that I wasn't asking for help, I was stating a solution. Some of the responses I got here were obviously from someone who read the first one or two sentences and thought 'OH choking I have a solution for that'. and if they read the entire post they would have seen that the normal solutions for choking was not what I was talking about.

Captain,
Ahoy. I read the whole thing, I still thought you were asking (though it sounded like you already had a theory about why you missed and were just asking for other's thoughts). You notice though that I didn't offer any solutions. I know how to do it, I don't know how to fix it. I think its a good thread anyway - why don't you just edit your first post and make it a definite question (?cry for help?)? :) :)
 
CaptainJR said:
Hell, I'm in deep enough already, so I might as well start a flame war. LOL...

Maybe the problem is: You don't play as good as you think you do... :eek:

-pigo
 
piglit said:
Maybe the problem is: You don't play as good as you think you do... :eek:

-pigo

Pigi,
Five thousand bucks says NO ONE plays as well as they think they do!!!!! (well, except of course for me, so I retract the bet).
 
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