What percentage of people are actually 6/7

[Skippy27]

Before they changed the format on points, I put together a spreadsheet on the performance of each team in our league and calculated who would be over/under performing compared to their skill level. This helped us match up sandbaggers to better players, and more importantly our weaker players against their over rated ones (if any). The hardest team to play against were always the teams with lots of 2/3s!

How did them changing the format remove your ability to do that? You can still see if they won or loss and that is what you based it on before.

Now you can see how "well" they won or loss by seeing their average points earned per game. With a little time you can even figure out pretty close to how many games they won by 3 points or by 2 points or lost but earned 1 by getting on the hill.

 

[lorider]

On the question of if certain players are "actually " 6's and 7's I can say they pretty much are in my area.

Without an exception every one that I thought was under handicapped when i faced them was eventually raised. The same with over handicapped..most have went down but not all

I have my own 3 level rating system for each handicap.. Weak....good ...damn good.

I mentioned on a thread I started a while back about I have recently added a couple of new players that moved here from other areas.

Onw is a 5 who I thought was a weak 5 and sure enough he moved down to a 4 but just moved back to a 5 after a couple of butt whippings he gave lower level players.

The other is a 6 who aint bad but he thinks he is better than he really is but is a nice guy other wise..be wins against weak 6's and 7's but loses to good ones or damn good ones ..i have beat higher level players who he loses to but maybe its due to I am a damn good 5 and he is slightly better than a weak 6 but he is not quite a good 6.

Fyi I am one of those guys who people constantly complain about my handicap.. Maybe ita because I have fluctuated between a 5 and a 6 four times over the Las 6 months. Too good to be a * but not consistent enough to be a 6 I guess lol.

 

[bad_hit]

Why are you lumping 6s with 7s, those are two very different ratings (assuming legit ratings).

 

[zpele]

Thanks for all the responses. I was just curious is all.

As far as why I lumped 6s and 7s together- for the most part as far as I can tell there are very few actual 7s anywhere. In my mind a legit 7 should be able to consistently put packs together. Since most people can't do that I imagine most 7s are that skill level because they were one of the better 6s and are simply at the top of the food chain locally.

I look at skill levels more from a national level- meaning- what would that person be ranked if they were playing at a national championship where everyone is actually playing as hard as they can with the motivation to concentrate fully on every shot.

If you get the chance to see the top tier 7s at national singles you would probably agree with me that most local 7s aren't really good enough to have that number and should be 6s.

I get that my original question is probably unanswerable but I was curious wha people thought is all.

 

[greyghost]

Why are you lumping 6s with 7s, those are two very different ratings (assuming legit ratings).

because in pool its almost like every rating is exponentially better than the rest....and in manys eyes you havent really learned wtf your doing untill your at least 6 level or something like that or other......without going on long winded about it...

6sp....the powers that be can hand out a girl scout pool badge now i guess lol

 

[greyghost]

Thanks for all the responses. I was just curious is all.

As far as why I lumped 6s and 7s together- for the most part as far as I can tell there are very few actual 7s anywhere. In my mind a legit 7 should be able to consistently put packs together. Since most people can't do that I imagine most 7s are that skill level because they were one of the better 6s and are simply at the top of the food chain locally.

I look at skill levels more from a national level- meaning- what would that person be ranked if they were playing at a national championship where everyone is actually playing as hard as they can with the motivation to concentrate fully on every shot.

If you get the chance to see the top tier 7s at national singles you would probably agree with me that most local 7s aren't really good enough to have that number and should be 6s.

I get that my original question is probably unanswerable but I was curious wha people thought is all.

you make a good point....i have a friend that everyone gets pissed at because he does sandbag lol...he's a 6.....and locally he should be a 7...but i tell him that he's without a doubt a 6 and sometimes he looks at me funny and i splain it to him basically like you just did.

because then you get above many of those guys that are 7's and then come the top A's and shortstops.......

sorta like when my 7sp friend years ago went to some event with such high hopes.....i tried to tell him man you better buckle up.....fukr called me nearly crying after getting bounced in 2 rounds and only won one game.....drew archer and i think hillbilly in a BB event lmfao. Straight tortured the kid.

-Greyghost

 

[lorider]

Thanks for all the responses. I was just curious is all.

As far as why I lumped 6s and 7s together- for the most part as far as I can tell there are very few actual 7s anywhere. In my mind a legit 7 should be able to consistently put packs together. Since most people can't do that I imagine most 7s are that skill level because they were one of the better 6s and are simply at the top of the food chain locally.

I look at skill levels more from a national level- meaning- what would that person be ranked if they were playing at a national championship where everyone is actually playing as hard as they can with the motivation to concentrate fully on every shot.

If you get the chance to see the top tier 7s at national singles you would probably agree with me that most local 7s aren't really good enough to have that number and should be 6s.

I get that my original question is probably unanswerable but I was curious wha people thought is all.

I think you fail to realize some thing here. The qualifying tournaments for national singles ensures that you have the best from each region there.

Apa singles nationals are nor like of leagues where you can just show up...produce your membership card....pay your fee and say ...hey I wanna play.

You are only going to see the best from each area there because they earned their way there.

And yes there are different levels of play in each handicap and that is why I came up with my ...weak..good and damn good ranking system .

I will.put up a damn good 3 against a weak 4 every time because they are basically at the same level of play but my player is getting spotted a game....or points in 9 ball.

Only downside is it will make my 3 a 4 real quick if I so it often

 

[Lesh]

Skill level or skill ratings in cue sports are unreliable beasts to be sure. Its like judging horse flesh, you are gonna get burnt once in a while thinking that the "B" you are matching up with is gonna be a push over or someone you can at least move on a little to keep them from getting out.

It's murky.

I've played absolute death-dealing monsters that (at the time) couldn't hit center pocket with Jesus coaching. I've seen stone cold novices that just walked through the door shoot perfect pool for an entire match. Freakish junk happens, but in no endeavor more so than cue sports. I love it for the fact that I never know how I'm gonna shot one day to the next. But there is a base line that evolves. A general level that can be expected.

One rarely forgets how to inflict misery on an opponent. But your ability to inflict said damage is subject to the level of your SKILL at the moment. Main thing is to play to the things that change the least in your game. Concentrate on making those things as bulletproof as possible, and maybe the pool gods will grant you some serenity.

Regards

 

[StuartTKelley]

Thanks for all the responses. I was just curious is all.

As far as why I lumped 6s and 7s together- for the most part as far as I can tell there are very few actual 7s anywhere. In my mind a legit 7 should be able to consistently put packs together. Since most people can't do that I imagine most 7s are that skill level because they were one of the better 6s and are simply at the top of the food chain locally.

I look at skill levels more from a national level- meaning- what would that person be ranked if they were playing at a national championship where everyone is actually playing as hard as they can with the motivation to concentrate fully on every shot.

If you get the chance to see the top tier 7s at national singles you would probably agree with me that most local 7s aren't really good enough to have that number and should be 6s.

I get that my original question is probably unanswerable but I was curious wha people thought is all.

I think you also have to think about APA or any league and reaching the top skill level, Once you are there the variables can be quite severe. I've been a 7 for years in 8ball and in 9ball I've been an 8 several times and maintained it while I was playing great and practicing/playing every single day. When I don't do that my game suffers but I still beat enough people to maintain my skill level.

There's a 7 in our 8ball league that pretty much treats us all like canon fodder...he's a beast of a player. We're both 7's....the difference is clear but he's played amateur tour's, plays every day, studies, he's eat up with the game. It shows. Does that mean I'm not a 7? Nope...I'm still better than most everyone I play in league so I'm still a 7 but yeah, I'm inconsistent and I go through slumps, bad one's. I play like a 5 sometimes...sometimes I play stronger than usual...In 9ball I can play like a 9 or a 3....just depends on what's going on in my head...I'm neurotic as hell. LOL None of what I said makes my skill level less legit. I've earned it through performance. No one I know would say I should go down in skill level.

I always hear these hypothetical what if's and comparisons to other leagues, other areas, and a 7 here is worse than a 7 there...yada yada.... I don't care about that, I do what I do in my league and that's all that matters to me. If I worried about all of that craziness I would quit pool. When I can beat all of the people in my league consistently I will move on to the next challenge...that hasn't happened and probably won't! Oh well, still fun.

 

[justadub]

Thanks for all the responses. I was just curious is all.

As far as why I lumped 6s and 7s together- for the most part as far as I can tell there are very few actual 7s anywhere. In my mind a legit 7 should be able to consistently put packs together. Since most people can't do that I imagine most 7s are that skill level because they were one of the better 6s and are simply at the top of the food chain locally.

I look at skill levels more from a national level- meaning- what would that person be ranked if they were playing at a national championship where everyone is actually playing as hard as they can with the motivation to concentrate fully on every shot.

If you get the chance to see the top tier 7s at national singles you would probably agree with me that most local 7s aren't really good enough to have that number and should be 6s.

I get that my original question is probably unanswerable but I was curious wha people thought is all.

I'm curious how many APA leagues have players running packages....realize that we play exclusively on 9'-footers, so perhaps its a more normal occurrence on 7' Valleys.

Packages? In APA? Really?

OK. Cool.

 

[zpele]

I'm curious how many APA leagues have players running packages....realize that we play exclusively on 9'-footers, so perhaps its a more normal occurrence on 7' Valleys.

Packages? In APA? Really?

OK. Cool.

Yep packages. It happens over and over at national singles in the top skill levels.

 

[Skratch]

How did them changing the format remove your ability to do that? You can still see if they won or loss and that is what you based it on before.

Now you can see how "well" they won or loss by seeing their average points earned per game. With a little time you can even figure out pretty close to how many games they won by 3 points or by 2 points or lost but earned 1 by getting on the hill.

We could see their score sheets. They were posted before. There was more info from the older sheets. Anyway, i came to realize that the only ones to watch out for are the 3-4-5s. They have the most wiggle room for sandbagging. 2,7s are almost never sandbaggin'. 6s are more valuable than 7's as there's always an excuse why they arent 7's. If you want a team to go. most have lots of 3,4,6 less 2,5,7. Well thats in my experience.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

We could see their score sheets. They were posted before. There was more info from the older sheets. Anyway, i came to realize that the only ones to watch out for are the 3-4-5s. They have the most wiggle room for sandbagging. 2,7s are almost never sandbaggin'. 6s are more valuable than 7's as there's always an excuse why they arent 7's. If you want a team to go. most have lots of 3,4,6 less 2,5,7. Well thats in my experience.

Wrong. The only handicap in the APA that is above reproach regarding sandbagging is 7/9. That's it. I know some guys that sandbagged as 6s. And some 2s were intentionally losing so that they could keep their 7 on the roster. Any handicap lower than the maximum has the potential to be manipulated.

7s are almost never sandbagging....interesting statement. Can you explain that one to me? How does a max handicap sandbag, exactly?

 

[Skratch]

Wrong. The only handicap in the APA that is above reproach regarding sandbagging is 7/9. That's it. I know some guys that sandbagged as 6s. And some 2s were intentionally losing so that they could keep their 7 on the roster. Any handicap lower than the maximum has the potential to be manipulated.

7s are almost never sandbagging....interesting statement. Can you explain that one to me? How does a max handicap sandbag, exactly?

7's cant sandbag! My point exactly. You can almost have them lose every game, and they wont lower their rating. I think we're confirming the same idea. The only time a 7 may be able to drop is when they first come up to a 7. If they win about 50% of their games, they will probably still be a 7 from that point on. I have never seen a 7 go down. I'm a 7/9 myself, and I know you can mark all my shots as safetys when I miss, and it wont do a thing to my rating. LOL.

2s wont sandbag for long. Almost any decent win will usually bring them up to atleast a 3. From a team stand point, it doesnt make sense to have your 2 purposefully lose just so the 6/7 can "try" to win to compensate (there is no guarantee that they will win their game). Eventually they go up.

Its the 3-4-5 that are most flexible, and thats where I see most people sandbag.

Again, this has been my experience. It certainly is not the rule.

 

[lorider]

Yep packages. It happens over and over at national singles in the top skill levels.

I think you are forgetting that apa 7's can be any where from a c player to semi pro.

So yea the top 7' are capable of running racks.although most posters on here dont think any apa player is capable of that.

The same thing with 9's in 9 ball. They also can range from a c player to semi pro.

I cam think of 6 9's in my division and one is at a whole different level that the other 5 who are pretty much equal..the one I am speaking of was offered to bs sponsored I. Open tournaments one time .

 

[bad_hit]

I think you are forgetting that apa 7's can be any where from a c player to semi pro.

So yea the top 7' are capable of running racks.although most posters on here dont think any apa player is capable of that.

The same thing with 9's in 9 ball. They also can range from a c player to semi pro.

I cam think of 6 9's in my division and one is at a whole different level that the other 5 who are pretty much equal..the one I am speaking of was offered to bs sponsored I. Open tournaments one time .

APA 9 definitely isn't a C player. http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/ratings.html#APA

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

7's cant sandbag! My point exactly. You can almost have them lose every game, and they wont lower their rating. I think we're confirming the same idea. The only time a 7 may be able to drop is when they first come up to a 7. If they win about 50% of their games, they will probably still be a 7 from that point on. I have never seen a 7 go down. I'm a 7/9 myself, and I know you can mark all my shots as safetys when I miss, and it wont do a thing to my rating. LOL.

2s wont sandbag for long. Almost any decent win will usually bring them up to atleast a 3. From a team stand point, it doesnt make sense to have your 2 purposefully lose just so the 6/7 can "try" to win to compensate (there is no guarantee that they will win their game). Eventually they go up.

Its the 3-4-5 that are most flexible, and thats where I see most people sandbag.

Again, this has been my experience. It certainly is not the rule.

Some teams keep 2s as their "sacrificial lamb", to throw on another team's star player. Or as cannon fodder for a 7. This way, their good players don't lose against a better player, and you just give the 7 their win, as it wasn't guaranteed that your 5 or 6 would beat them. Give them their one sure win, and pick on the other 4 players. Besides, a 2 isn't guaranteed to win against a 3. Or even another 2.

 

[Apocalypse2017]

Is a 6 still afraid of a 7?

 

[Skratch]

Some teams keep 2s as their "sacrificial lamb", to throw on another team's star player. Or as cannon fodder for a 7. This way, their good players don't lose against a better player, and you just give the 7 their win, as it wasn't guaranteed that your 5 or 6 would beat them. Give them their one sure win, and pick on the other 4 players. Besides, a 2 isn't guaranteed to win against a 3. Or even another 2.

Yep...not unless they are a sandbaggin' 2..LOL.

 

[Skratch]

Is a 6 still afraid of a 7?

When I was a 6, I never was. Consistancy is the only difference at the higher levels.