What Shafts Draw better ???

Mick

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The best draw I have ever hit was with my Jacoby Black.
Same. I'm sure it is all just a difference in attitude, but since I switched I'm drawing better than ever, even though I was already fairly strong. I'm also playing the best pool of my life, so not sure if the shaft has anything to do with it.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The biggest factor for me is cloth and humidity. Wet, worn = nightmare. Fresh, dry is ideal. One thing I dont see mentioned in regard to shot dynamics is powder. Powder is like granular silicone on the playing surface. Brush it off and you lose that.

The other thing is shaft taper. I like it long and cylindrical as possible. Cue tech "super slim" would be perfect a
 

philly

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Think it is all in your stroke on any given day.
Some days it seems I can pop the ball softly and get tons of draw action.
Some days you just shoot THROUGH the ball more efficiently.
Indian vs. arrow once again.
 

Jason Robichaud

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't believe any stick draws or spins the ball much better than another - I've tested a bunch of them and never found a real difference. Sure, power transfer counts with draw and follow, but not for much. The real difference is stroke accuracy.

Nobody's 100% accurate with tip placement, but players with more reliable strokes (on the right below) hit closer to their target, so they can aim closer to the limit without risking a miscue - so they're consistently better at it.

The greater the speed, the greater the difference. Power or accuracy - if you're not an advanced player, choose one.

pj
chgo

View attachment 582881
Like this only you can hit much, much lower. Almost the table and CB at the same time
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Like this only you can hit much, much lower. Almost the table and CB at the same time
The circle drawn on the cue balls is the miscue limit - you can’t hit farther from center (in any direction) without miscuing.

It can look like you’re hitting farther out, because when hitting near the miscue limit only the edge of your tip contacts the ball and the rest of the tip is outside the limit. With maximum draw pretty much the whole tip is below the limit, almost rubbing the cloth - but it contacts the ball higher up, above (or on) the limit, like shown.

pj
chgo
 
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garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I thought it's all about the chalk.
There's a guy that comes in my local room that is the poster-boy for this stuff. He's got a real nice later JossWest butt, $400 carbon shaft, $35 glove, uses $25 chalk and still can't make four balls if his life was on the line. Guy has no clue. Horrible stance and a stroke as crooked as a D.C. lawyer. But hey, he feeds the game by buyin' this stuff and paying a LOT of pool time $. The game could use more like him in that regard.
 
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8cree

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I don't believe any stick draws or spins the ball much better than another - I've tested a bunch of them and never found a real difference. Sure, power transfer counts with draw and follow, but not for much. The real difference is stroke accuracy.

Nobody's 100% accurate with tip placement, but players with more reliable strokes (on the right below) hit closer to their target, so they can aim closer to the limit without risking a miscue - so they're consistently better at it.

The greater the speed, the greater the difference. Power or accuracy - if you're not an advanced player, choose one.

pj
chgo

View attachment 582881
So we never really hit the bullseye? Brutal...
 

Texas Carom Club

play 1cushion & balkline
Silver Member
once i had a new starkey cue, seemed like it juiced the ball crazy easy and tons of it

two yrs later, i dont feel like that cue does that at all anymore

the new cue magic is just a passing thing

indian > arrow
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Nobody's 100% accurate with tip placement
So we never really hit the bullseye? Brutal...
Sometimes we hit it - but mostly we're just in the neighborhood. If you're a better player you might hit next door - a less experienced player might hit the next block over, so they subconsciously adjust their aim to avoid disaster. Our subconscious knows us better than we know ourselves.

pj
chgo
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
The circle drawn on the cue balls is the miscue limit - you can’t hit farther from center (in any direction) without miscuing.

It can look like you’re hitting farther out, because when hitting near the miscue limit only the edge of your tip contacts the ball and the rest of the tip is outside the limit. With maximum draw pretty much the whole tip is below the limit, almost rubbing the cloth - but it contacts the ball higher up, above (or on) the limit, like shown.

pj
chgo
I'm sure it's my visual perception playing tricks on me, but when I saw your diagram I thought for sure I could hit outside of that 'miscue limit' circle. Now that I read the above, it makes total sense that it's merely the inner edge of my tip making contact and falling within that limit.

Curious though... how did you determine what the limit is...? Is there nothing that can increase that limit..?
 

Buzzard II

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Indian, arrow, I don't know. Couple of years back I bought a McDermott/Star Go-Cue for motorcycle touring. Now I don't use it much, not at all this last year as the pandemic grounded my long distance riding.

But given my same wobbly stroke on any particular cue I do best with this 3 piece travel stick. I suspected that first joint up so close to the tip has an effect. How do you explain one individual getting better draw from one particular cue?

This is not "new cue magic" as I've had it a while and only bring it out when getting ready for a long ride.
 

Texas Carom Club

play 1cushion & balkline
Silver Member
There's a guy that comes in my local room that is the poster-boy for this stuff. He's got a real nice later JossWest butt, $400 carbon shaft, $35 glove, uses $25 chalk and still can't make four balls if his life was on the line. Guy has no clue. Horrible stance and a stroke as crooked as a D.C. lawyer. But hey, he feeds the game by buyin' this stuff and paying a LOT of pool time $. The game could use more like him in that regard.

same, on my team theres a guy like that tons of equipment terrible stance like a ballerina at the table, been in the league 4 yrs still a 3
lol, you just have the intuition that someone like that isnt really trying to get better so i never wasted my breath, later to hear from someone he doenst like when people try to give him advice lmao
 

alphadog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You guys haven't hit enough of a variety of cues if you think they all juice the same.
It may well be a difference in tips/weight/diameter/shaft flex/grip/ or playing conditions that minute,but there is a difference.
Best draw I ever got was with a Don Wallace cue . Don is a friend and he had the cue out and said hit a few balls with this.13 mm LePro stainless joint and a leather wrap about 20 oz. Ball on foot spot cueball in the kitchen. Make ball in corner pocket draw to rail and back across above side pocket. A young guy with a great stroke was watching and I said you you should buy this cue. He tried the shot and almost drew into the side before going across to the corner!He said wow that is twice as much as I ever have gotten.

Honestly I almost always play with McDermott's because I feel they play solid but dont over juice the ball. I can miss hit a little and get away with it.
That Wallace cue would give me fits.
 

THam

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There's a guy that comes in my local room that is the poster-boy for this stuff. He's got a real nice later JossWest butt, $400 carbon shaft, $35 glove, uses $25 chalk and still can't make four balls if his life was on the line. Guy has no clue. Horrible stance and a stroke as crooked as a D.C. lawyer. But hey, he feeds the game by buyin' this stuff and paying a LOT of pool time $. The game could use more like him in that regard.
Do I go to the same room as you? Do you know me?
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
You guys haven't hit enough of a variety of cues if you think they all juice the same.
You haven't really tested them if you think any juice much differently, especially with side spin (draw and follow respond a little to more power transfer). Recollection (or impression or feeling) isn't a test.

pj
chgo
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
...how did you determine what the limit is...?
I learned it from people like Dr. Dave (who can probably show us a physics equation about it), but I've confirmed it many times by using a striped ball as my "cue ball" (with the stripe vertical or horizontal - for sidespin or draw/follow) and trying to hit outside the edge of the stripe (it's about 1/2 ball width). My chalk marks tell me it's a real limit.
Is there nothing that can increase that limit..?
Not that I know of.

pj
chgo
 
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misterpoole

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What about long draws?. cue ball in the kitchen, object ball 1 to 2 diamonds from corner pocket. Straight in shot. Try and draw the cueball back into the kitchen. Same stroke produces different results from different cues. What is biggest factor in that difference? Shaft, tip, ??.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
What about long draws?. cue ball in the kitchen, object ball 1 to 2 diamonds from corner pocket. Straight in shot. Try and draw the cueball back into the kitchen. Same stroke produces different results from different cues. What is biggest factor in that difference? Shaft, tip, ??.
Small differences can be the result of better power transfer (shaft). More than that and it's almost certainly stroke accuracy - maybe paying closer attention when testing cues...

pj
chgo
 
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