What should I do?

S

Secaucus Fats

Banned
I repair cues as a hobby and sideline business. I do simple things like tips, ferrules, shaft reconditioning and the like.

About four months ago a gentleman from another league team gave me a cue for tip replacement and shaft cleaning / reconditioning. I believe the cue is either a Frank Paradise or Palmer. The butt is in serious need of a complete restoration and refinishing and the plexiglass needs to be replaced and the original sticker or embellishments that would have shown under the plexiglass are missing.

I replaced the tip and reconditioned the shaft and I have called the individual in question at least a dozen times leaving messages on his voice mail at home to come pick it up. To this date the guy has not called me back. His team dropped out of the (TAP) league and no one has seen or heard from this individual.

I am an honest man and do not wish to keep this guy's cue, but I have run out of options here. At what point do I simply give up, keep the cue and send it out to an expert for total reconditioning / refinish?

Please advise, as I am faced with an ethical dilemma here and, as I have stated, I would just rather he would come and get it... but at some point I have to assume that he has abandoned his property and that ownership then passes on to me as a result.
 
If it was me I'd do two things. One I would call and tell him again to come get it or you will have to assume it is yours. Two I would send a registered letter with the same message.

And I would look up the laws of your paticular state and try to find out if you have a leg to stand on if you should get it fixed and then he comes and wants it back.

so I guess I'd really do three things before I spent more than a few bucks on the cue.


~not a cuemaker and don't play one on tv....just a forum reader~
 
I think you should keep it as-is. The guy will probably eventually turn up, or someone who knows him will.

If you assume the cue is now yours (even if it legally is), have it restored/sold/traded, etc., what will happen if the guy comes back? He might ruin your reputation, and tell people that you sold his cue out from under him.

I would just put it in a corner of your shop somewhere and forget about it until the day he shows up.
 
I agree that you should just put it up and count yourself a collector if he never shows. He just might pop back up and accuse you of being dishonest. If he shows great, you get paid. If not it sounds like you are getting a very collectable cue for very little labor.
 
cueman said:
I agree that you should just put it up and count yourself a collector if he never shows. He just might pop back up and accuse you of being dishonest. If he shows great, you get paid. If not it sounds like you are getting a very collectable cue for very little labor.
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I had a man come in one time with a McDermott with three shafts. He had me put on a couple of ferrules, tips and polish the shafts. When he picked them up he brought a Dufferin butt with a 3/8X10 pin and he wanted me to fit one of the shafts to it and make the cue weigh 25oz. I did but he never came back to pick it up. The shaft looked as though there was lipstick rubbed on it in places which I couldn't remove. A long time went by and I moved my shop from one side of town to the other. About a year ago someone was looking thru one of my junk barrels and pulled out this butt which I couldn't remember where I had got it from. He had shafts that would fit it so I sold it to him for 15.00. About three months later the original owner came back in wanting his cue. At first I couldn't remember it but when he said that he had me make it as heavy as I could it then dawned on me. He came to my shop and I found his old shaft but of coarse the butt was gone. He said he had left it about a year before and had been sick and never picked it up. He claimed that the butt was so nice, which I knew otherwise as I had just sold it about three months prior. I went ahead and put together a butt from an old Dufferen I had laying around and he came back and got it which made him happy. We started talking and he told me that he had gave me the cue at my old place. I told him I had moved from my old place about four years prior to this. He then confessed that it wasn't a year before when he left it but over five years as he had just got out from doing 5 years in prison.
I now have a sign in my shop stating "Not responsable for anything left over thirty days". I still won't just convert someone elses property to my own but I'm also not going to be a baby sitter for years worrying about someone elses property.
Dick
 
I closed a family sporting goods business 10 years ago, that was open for 89 years. We repaired guns, fishing reels, scuba regulators, pool cues, archery bows, and other items. Laws in a state do protect you should you go to court over something, but most of the time, the amount is so small you basically are dealing with the customer to satisfy them over a problem.

As noted above, some notice on a repair ticket about items left over "xx" number of days should be on the receipt that you give the customer. 99% of the time they will not read it and fight for the "priceless" item to be produced after years of not returning to pick it up.

Ethics is number one here. I have heard more excuses in my days at work, and most make sense, why someone hasn't returned in a timely manner. I made it a habit to always tell the customer, " I should have this ready in a few days, and our policy is to sell the item in 90 days for repair charges, if it is not picked up". If not picked up, I would always hold it for a year. Then place the item in my personal collection, and pay my business for the repair charges. then I would consider it mine to keep or sell.

After a year, 25% of the people would show up. I would tell them I "sold" the item to a collector-(myself), since so much time had passed, making a point of my 90 day rule.

Once I had a feel for the situation, my possible solution was to call the "collector" and see if he would sell it back to me, and at what price. If the customer wanted that "priceless" item back, I basically sold it back to them for "storage and repair fees", and made them happy that I went the extra mile to get it back. If they didn't want to pay more than the repair charge from the "collector", this usually showed their cards that the item wasn't that important to them now, and previously, since they didn't come back for a long time.

Seems a little deseptive, but letting a customer's item get out of your control, will not allow you options to make them happy. Also, that "collector" is the bad guy now, since his price was more then the repair price, not you.

If it goes to another level, and you just have to replace the item, then you can always pay the "collectors" price, and return the original item back to the owner. Which will save you time and hardship locating another "priceless" item in the same condition.

So after years, if nobody shows up to claim the item, and you can sell it--DO IT !! You have gone the extra mile, you have fulfilled opportunities for the return of the item, and you should be rewarded for storage and care of the item for all these years. You just can't make everyone happy, but then the customer has a responsibility to this transaction also.

Just my 2 cents worth
RWOMEL
 
Secaucus Fats said:
I repair cues as a hobby and sideline business. I do simple things like tips, ferrules, shaft reconditioning and the like.

About four months ago a gentleman from another league team gave me a cue for tip replacement and shaft cleaning / reconditioning. I believe the cue is either a Frank Paradise or Palmer. The butt is in serious need of a complete restoration and refinishing and the plexiglass needs to be replaced and the original sticker or embellishments that would have shown under the plexiglass are missing.

I replaced the tip and reconditioned the shaft and I have called the individual in question at least a dozen times leaving messages on his voice mail at home to come pick it up. To this date the guy has not called me back. His team dropped out of the (TAP) league and no one has seen or heard from this individual.

I am an honest man and do not wish to keep this guy's cue, but I have run out of options here. At what point do I simply give up, keep the cue and send it out to an expert for total reconditioning / refinish?

Please advise, as I am faced with an ethical dilemma here and, as I have stated, I would just rather he would come and get it... but at some point I have to assume that he has abandoned his property and that ownership then passes on to me as a result.
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I don't think at any no point does that cue ever become your property. I am guessing but I doubt you have a business license are zoned have a sales tax number or even pay any taxes on what you do. You probably have none of the protection a legitimate business may have regarding such things. He could show up two years from now and you better have his cue or expect to find yourself in court if it is a cue of any real value. I'd say your are stuck till you see him again. I am sure you can track the guy down if you really try.
 
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rhncue said:
I now have a sign in my shop stating "Not responsable for anything left over thirty days". I still won't just convert someone elses property to my own but I'm also not going to be a baby sitter for years worrying about someone elses property.
Dick
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Putting up a sign doesn't let you enjoy any more rights beyond what the law already permits. Sort of like a "Ride at your own risk" sign at an amusement park, it means nothing and if something's happens they can expect to be sued even if someone signed an agreement. You are still liable for using due care to protect the customers property regardless of any sign or time limit. In many states regarding things like warehouses and selling personal property of people who don't pay the rent. They can't even profit on the sale beyond their own costs and what is owed. The balance has to be turned over to the original owner of the property. They never enjoy legal ownership of the property just the right to be paid for their services. That is one of the reasons they sell the stuff so cheap, what do they care, they have to give the money to the AH who stiffed them in the first place anyway. I think a lot of cue repair guys who do it as a hobby don't realize the responsibility they accept when someone hands them a cue to work on. They could end up replacing a $1000. cue while trying to do a $30.00 repair.
 
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macguy said:
Putting up a sign doesn't let you enjoy any more rights beyond what the law already permits. Sort of like a "Ride at your own risk" sign at an amusement park, it means nothing and if something's happens they can expect to be sued even if someone signed an agreement. You are still liable for using due care to protect the customers property regardless of any sign or time limit. In many states regarding things like warehouses and selling personal property of people who don't pay the rent. They can't even profit on the sale beyond their own costs and what is owed. The balance has to be turned over to the original owner of the property. They never enjoy legal ownership of the property just the right to be paid for their services. That is one of the reasons they sell the stuff so cheap, what do they care, they have to give the money to the AH who stiffed them in the first place anyway. I think a lot of cue repair guys who do it as a hobby don't realize the responsibility they accept when someone hands them a cue to work on. They could end up replacing a $1000. cue while trying to do a $30.00 repair.
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Unfortunately well said, I've had a Schrager cue for 4 years, I put it in a case and put it in a closet and forgot about it, if he ever shows up fine, if not, it will still be in the closet.
 
have to somewhat disagree about signs/waivers

I have owned many businesses over the years including automotive shops. All of my invoices had mechanic's liens on them and of course also served as the estimate the customer signed. Signs were also posted about storage and abandoned items. In over twenty years time, myself or friends with shops did find ourselves in civil court a time or three. IN ALL CASES what was or wasn't on our paperwork and signs on the walls were strongly influencing factors.

No sign or statement is going to override state law however the proper signs and statements will make the law work in your favor. For example, three dollars a day storage if a cue isn't picked up within a few weeks after work is complete probably wouldn't be considered excessive. That doesn't sound like much but it is over a thousand a year. Combined with a blue book you can demonstrate that the materials, labor, and storage exceeded the blue book value of the cue when and if you sell it. In civil court all else being equal the person with the best documentation wins. In other words, when nobody is clearly at fault, the person with a preponderance of proof, 51% or more, wins.

Of course if a person wants to pay the repairs and storage on a cue it is nice to be able to drag it out of your safe.

Hu


macguy said:
Putting up a sign doesn't let you enjoy any more rights beyond what the law already permits. Sort of like a "Ride at your own risk" sign at an amusement park, it means nothing and if something's happens they can expect to be sued even if someone signed an agreement. You are still liable for using due care to protect the customers property regardless of any sign or time limit. In many states regarding things like warehouses and selling personal property of people who don't pay the rent. They can't even profit on the sale beyond their own costs and what is owed. The balance has to be turned over to the original owner of the property. They never enjoy legal ownership of the property just the right to be paid for their services. That is one of the reasons they sell the stuff so cheap, what do they care, they have to give the money to the AH who stiffed them in the first place anyway. I think a lot of cue repair guys who do it as a hobby don't realize the responsibility they accept when someone hands them a cue to work on. They could end up replacing a $1000. cue while trying to do a $30.00 repair.
Click to expand...
 
Secaucus Fats said:
Please advise, as I am faced with an ethical dilemma [] but at some point I have to assume that he has abandoned his property and that ownership then passes on to me as a result.
Click to expand...

I think that your legal obligation supercedes your ethical dilemma. You are what is called a "bailee" of the cue, and must keep it from harm until the true owner returns or until the owner would have no legal recourse against you for keeping the cue - which is when the statute of limitations runs. If you sell, give away, or destroy the cue, the owner would most likely have a civil action for conversion (or your state's equivalent).

For example, in New York, the statute of limitations for recovering a chattel (basically personal property) or damages for the taking of the chattel is 3 years. This is a good rule of thumb for you to keep in mind. In your case, figure out when you expected the guy to come back for the cue, and tack on 3 years. At this point you should revisit the whole issue.*

You might be able to argue abandonment, but it would most likely be an uphill battle, and cost loads of money in legal fees.

To be safe, you should check with an attorney in your state...

-td <-- PM me if you live in NY

*Sometimes, the statute of limitations does not start to run until a person asks for the property back and the holder refuses to return it. Basically, this means that if someone gave you a cue, you had it for 5 years (and they never asked for it) they might still have a loophole to sue for the cue for an additional 3 years from when they asked for it. Of course, there are defenses for this, but who really wants to pay a lawyer to defend a case like this??? Again, to be safe you ask an attorne in your state.
 
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