What type of audience is best for tv pool?

[chefjeff]

What I'm trying to convey is that pool has never had and probably never will have such an opportunity to grow what with our competitors on their heels simply trying to survive.

It's not time to push out; it's time to run out or go for the early 9.


Jeff Livingston

 

[livemusic]

I am certainly no expert but seems to me, it's like someone said in this thread, it's about marketing. Whoever said sex sells is right, too. Always does. If it's sexist, sorry, but I def watched several matches with Pan Xiaoting, "Queen of 9 ball." That woman is movie star gorgeous and fun to watch; her skill is incredible. She probably doesn't care about her image over here, lol, but if she would show some emotion, she would grab a million fans over here. Jasmine Ouschan, a looker as well. Def watched several with her, she's a great player. She does show some emotion.

I think the marketing should include some explanation of how pool is a sport anyone can enjoy and is an incredible challenge. And some soundbites and clips of energetic crowds!

Whoever said tv golf is boring might be right, lol. And I have been a very serious golfaholic, love the game and played at a pretty high level. I don't know what it is but it puts me to sleep except for major tournaments; I never get bored watching those for some reason.

Tiger Woods is the greatest ever IMO, and he showed emotion. And flat grew golf bigtime. Now, it's going the other way. I guess due to cellphones, lol.

Then again, a goal to grow pool may all be for naught. I have no clue if a sport like pool can grow in today's society. Young people (actually everyone!) are def glued to their phones. But, pool is fun to youngsters, it was to me anyway. My first exposure to pool was when my dad took our family to visit his brother's family a thousand miles away on a vacation and their town had a family games center. I had never seen one, it was like being in Disneyland or something to me. I was young, probably ten or so. My dad and my uncle let me play and I coerced them to play more when they wanted to quit and I begged them to take me again the next day and they did. I wonder what would happen if they put a pool table in every school! And make it a competitive sport among the schools.

 

[boogieman]

Been watching alot of tourneys and have watched several womens' tourneys from Asia. Incredible skill, it's just amazing how good these ladies are. But you talk about quiet and non-animated! I don't know anything much about Asian culture but I assume it is due to that, plus authoritarian regimes such that the populace is just "reserved?" The audience politely claps briefly and that's it. It does seem that their audiences do understand the game. As for the players? Hardly ever show any emotion whatsoever and rarely crack a smile. I guess that's awesome to keep the heart rate down anyway! It would be interesting to learn how players in China are "groomed" to become champions. Wow, they're good!

I watched one from Singapore (EDIT: I think it was Jakarta, Indonesia) and the audience was much more into it. And I watched a dart tourney recently from across the pond and now, that is something else! LOL, have you ever seen one? Those people, it's party time! Chanting, singing, I guess they're drunk, lol. But I got to thinking that if that were a pool tourney, it could still work if you had continuous chatter and noise instead of something sudden. Pool players and golfers don't like sudden noise!

So, what is the key to make pool interesting on tv? One thing I thought about is... if you are trying to attract more non pool playing audience, if you're an announcer, you shouldn't assume that the audience understands what the heck you're talking about. They don't. And you should have graphics on screen that highlight the object ball AND the next object ball so people can understand why top level pool is difficult and requires such amazing skill. And explain what shooting safe means. Other than "educational" comments, it would help to have more color overall. Just invite Earl, I guess.

Just curious, are there any tourneys available on youtube that are somewhat more lively?

I honestly think 1P would be a wonderful game for television, but it would have to be cut down and show a lot of the wild shots. I love every aspect of it, but I can fully understand why the average viewer would tune out after a couple safety battles.

EDIT: Also I think numberless would make some kind of an impact. Look at snooker. No numbers, yet you could ask your average 12 year old how many points black or blue was worth and they would know. This "hidden" info makes viewers feel clever and gets them more interested into the game.

Second EDIT: I think good commentators are also a key. Remember when you first realized you could make the cue ball do things to set up an easy next shot? The average casual player like in a bar or something doesn't realize this. It's exciting to discover things like this. Every shot for a causal player is a random next shot. Stuff like this needs to be taught to the audience. I like how earl says what spin he would put on the ball. You really need to capture what goes through a pro's head, should I play this sequence of balls, or this one. I can play sequence 1 but I'll not get to break out the cluster. Sequence 2 leads to me being able to break the cluster 2 shots from now. That kind of stuff. I'm probably going to get roasted for saying this, but 9 ball isn't the sport to bring casuals into viewing. It's boring, paint by numbers. If you play a game like 8 ball, one pocked, even 61 rotation, you have different competing strategies and options, not just shotmaking and leave. You NEED a game that lets the audience feel clever and like they are part of the strategizing. To do this, you have to educate them through good announcers, similar to how Dr. Dave gives other options when he shows how a pro shot a shot. Basically you have to let them in on the higher levels of thought. This might not even be a good fit for live events, but some post production would allow you to add in all kinds of scenarios and interesting factoids.

 

[chefjeff]

A growing number of big-name advertisers, including Coke and Hyundai, are skipping the Super Bowl this year for fear of not striking the right tone amid America’s contentious political landscape.
Several companies have decided not to buy Super Bowl time, some for the first time in over a decade.

Several Super Bowl Advertisers Bow Out over Fear of Offending Viewers

A growing number of big-name advertisers, including Coke and Hyundai, are skipping the Super Bowl this year for fear of offending people.

www.breitbart.com

This means those companies are looking for ANOTHER place for their advertising dollars.

fwiw,


Jeff Livingston

 

[garczar]

A growing number of big-name advertisers, including Coke and Hyundai, are skipping the Super Bowl this year for fear of not striking the right tone amid America’s contentious political landscape.
Several companies have decided not to buy Super Bowl time, some for the first time in over a decade.

Several Super Bowl Advertisers Bow Out over Fear of Offending Viewers

A growing number of big-name advertisers, including Coke and Hyundai, are skipping the Super Bowl this year for fear of offending people.

www.breitbart.com

This means those companies are looking for ANOTHER place for their advertising dollars.

fwiw,


Jeff Livingston

Major corp's are NEVER going to spend a dime on pool. Pool is and always will be a niche sport in the US. Can't speak for other countries 'cause i don't care. Pool's BIGGEST issue with corporate investors is the age-old gambling stigma. Pool in other countries doesn't have that problem and is treated like another game/sport. If you think pool will be on major tv with corporate backing you live in fantasy land.

 

[chefjeff]

Major corp's are NEVER going to spend a dime on pool. Pool is and always will be a niche sport in the US. Can't speak for other countries 'cause i don't care. Pool's BIGGEST issue with corporate investors is the age-old gambling stigma. Pool in other countries doesn't have that problem and is treated like another game/sport. If you think pool will be on major tv with corporate backing you live in fantasy land.

You've pointed out the old problem, but the situation has changed dramatically. I'm not talking tv exactly because I think streaming and pool should and will be married.

That's why I called this an opportunity for pool. Right now, the major sports businesses are on their heels. Let's push em over.


Jeff Livingston

 

[garczar]

You've pointed out the old problem, but the situation has changed dramatically. I'm not talking tv exactly because I think streaming and pool should and will be married.

That's why I called this an opportunity for pool. Right now, the major sports businesses are on their heels. Let's push em over.


Jeff Livingston

Whose this 'let's'?? Pool isn't going mainstream anytime soon. If ever. Knock yourself out trying. I'll write this date down. Get back with me in five yrs.

 

[chefjeff]

Whose this 'let's'?? Pool isn't going mainstream anytime soon. If ever. Knock yourself out trying. I'll write this date down. Get back with me in five yrs.

Jeff Livingston

 

[garczar]

Jeff Livingston

That's exactly how corporate exec's will look when someone says they should get involved with pool. Pool can't even outrun corn-hole. Think about that. Professional corn-hole is more organized,AND backed, than pool.

 

[The_JV]

Hey, is there anything more boring than watching golf? Yeah, maybe tennis.

How about poker....?

I think it was the NHL strike that boosted poker into the lime light.

 

[The_JV]

Major corp's are NEVER going to spend a dime on pool. Pool is and always will be a niche sport in the US. Can't speak for other countries 'cause i don't care. Pool's BIGGEST issue with corporate investors is the age-old gambling stigma. Pool in other countries doesn't have that problem and is treated like another game/sport. If you think pool will be on major tv with corporate backing you live in fantasy land.

Sorry... quoting still has me a little messed up.

Again, what about poker...? You can't come up with a game that has a higher gambling stigma then poker...

Yet here we are... I turn on the TV right now and find some heavily corporate invested poker game. You just have to have the right people doing the work behind the scenes.

I don't believe the gambling stigma pool does have is the problem. It's the default assumption by the general public that pool is associated to back alley, deceitful, type people. To this day, when I'm speaking to someone for the first time and they find out that I'm a pool player. You can see the change in their perception.

 

[chefjeff]

CBS on Sunday afternoon had fishing. Fishing. Standing around with a pole in his hands. For a minute, I thought it was a 1-P game.

Advertisers are looking for ways to market their stuff. Fishing? Watching it? bleh


Jeff Livingston

 

[garczar]

Here's the ACL homepage. Pool is not even CLOSE to being this organized, or funded. https://www.iplaycornhole.com/about

 

[garczar]

Sorry... quoting still has me a little messed up.

Again, what about poker...? You can't come up with a game that has a higher gambling stigma then poker...

Yet here we are... I turn on the TV right now and find some heavily corporate invested poker game. You just have to have the right people doing the work behind the scenes.

I don't believe the gambling stigma pool does have is the problem. It's the default assumption by the general public that pool is associated to back alley, deceitful, type people. To this day, when I'm speaking to someone for the first time and they find out that I'm a pool player. You can see the change in their perception.

You said it well. Not the gambling itself so much but everything associated with it. Pool in Europe and China doesn't have this issue and the game is treated like another sport. In the Philipines both go on at the same time, tournament and action pool coexist fine there. US pro pool had its shot until tobacco $$ went away. That's been 20yrs ago and nothing has happened since. Until kids start playing in large numbers pool here is going to suffer.

 

[APA Operator]

Sorry... quoting still has me a little messed up.

Again, what about poker...? You can't come up with a game that has a higher gambling stigma then poker...

Yet here we are... I turn on the TV right now and find some heavily corporate invested poker game. You just have to have the right people doing the work behind the scenes.

I don't believe the gambling stigma pool does have is the problem. It's the default assumption by the general public that pool is associated to back alley, deceitful, type people. To this day, when I'm speaking to someone for the first time and they find out that I'm a pool player. You can see the change in their perception.

Poker didn't become become popular on TV until Chris Moneymaker showed an amateur can win it all and online poker became popular. Oh, and the hole cam was invented (watching a live tournament on the rail is as boring as it gets, because you don't know the hole cards and the boring play is edited out in the TV version). Before that, people played poker for years and never even thought about entering big events. Golf and tennis are boring for those who don't play. Again, the pro's support programs like The First Tee and the USGA, who attract the casual interest and feed them talent and sales.

 

[sixpack]

The players I enjoy watching the most are the ones who joke around, goof around, bark, and try to get the audience to participate. Always in action and always a group of people following them around to see what will happen next. The current tournament atmosphere of quietude and boring introspection is not fun to watch except for avid pool fans. And even then I find myself skipping ahead 30 seconds when someone is considering a shot for more than a moment or two.

A format that appeals to the masses is going to require personalities that appeal to the masses. There are a lot of players that do this naturally. Danny Medina did. Dave Gomez another player from Denver has this in spades. Earl. Jayson Shaw has the personality as does Alex Pagulayan. I know I'm missing some but you know you they are in your area. If at least a portion of the compensation is tied to ratings those personalities will emerge and younger players will develop showmanship just like they develop their draw shot. A lot of young pro players have great personalities but I think they are used to holding back when they compete.

It's all about fans now in a way that it never has been in the past. Clicks=views=money directly. There are no gatekeepers. Anybody, even someone in their garage doing Friday Night Fargo Fights could hit on a good formula and go viral and revitalize pool as a whole.

So those of you that have an idea for a winning formula get out there and try some stuff. Get it rolling and let's see what you got!

 

[The_JV]

Poker didn't become become popular on TV until Chris Moneymaker showed an amateur can win it all and online poker became popular.

Don't forget the NHL strike that left a massive air time hole that poker filled nicely.

I don't discount the validity of the Moneymaker's win having on the game. However I do know I took up poker during that hockey strike / 'boom' and didn't know who Moneymaker was until well after.

 

[The_JV]

The players I enjoy watching the most are the ones who joke around, goof around, bark, and try to get the audience to participate. Always in action and always a group of people following them around to see what will happen next. The current tournament atmosphere of quietude and boring introspection is not fun to watch except for avid pool fans. And even then I find myself skipping ahead 30 seconds when someone is considering a shot for more than a moment or two.

A format that appeals to the masses is going to require personalities that appeal to the masses. There are a lot of players that do this naturally. Danny Medina did. Dave Gomez another player from Denver has this in spades. Earl. Jayson Shaw has the personality as does Alex Pagulayan. I know I'm missing some but you know you they are in your area. If at least a portion of the compensation is tied to ratings those personalities will emerge and younger players will develop showmanship just like they develop their draw shot. A lot of young pro players have great personalities but I think they are used to holding back when they compete.

It's all about fans now in a way that it never has been in the past. Clicks=views=money directly. There are no gatekeepers. Anybody, even someone in their garage doing Friday Night Fargo Fights could hit on a good formula and go viral and revitalize pool as a whole.

So those of you that have an idea for a winning formula get out there and try some stuff. Get it rolling and let's see what you got!

I personally think Mr. Pagulayan is the front runner in terms of a player that will engage a crowd in a positive manner. The downside to this game is necessity of a shot clock to keep viewers engaged and the negative impact that has on the players/audience interaction.

Some of my favourite vids have the players joking around with members of the audience during a match. Letting the viewers know that the players are actually decent guys (generally) to interact with, would do volumes for the game. However you don't allow for that with a shot clock. That said, Alex can be extremely painful to watch without a shot clock.

 

[garczar]

Moneymaker won the WSOP in '03. It was the first time he played live poker. Up til then it was all on-line. Changed the game forever. Both on-line and live poker exploded after his win.

 

[sixpack]

I personally think Mr. Pagulayan is the front runner in terms of a player that will engage a crowd in a positive manner. The downside to this game is necessity of a shot clock to keep viewers engaged and the negative impact that has on the players/audience interaction.

Some of my favourite vids have the players joking around with members of the audience during a match. Letting the viewers know that the players are actually decent guys (generally) to interact with, would do volumes for the game. However you don't allow for that with a shot clock. That said, Alex can be extremely painful to watch without a shot clock.

I agree about Pagulayan even though I've never watched him in person. I think the shot clock should be implemented with funny exceptions like "phoning a friend" where SVB could call Corey and discuss a shot with him etc...