Not sure exactly what your point is. You think pool is somehow going to start pulling fans of other sports because of covid?? Not gonna happen.
What type of audience is best for tv pool?
- Thread starter livemusic
- Start date
My point is anyone who markets pool has had handed to him the biggest opportunity of pool's lifetime. What someone does with it is his business. Everything is set to take away other sports' consumers. There has never been such an opp in my lifetime. Football, baseball, etc has always been the dominate ones. Now, they're not...they're fumbling around like pool has always done. Let's take away what they give up!
Farmers have a saying: Make hay while the sun shines.
Jeff Livingston
IF pool has some big surge it WILL NOT happen until people are totally confident that going indoors to play a game is safe. That's not going to be anytime real soon. Golf on the other has EXPLODED. Courses and equipment makers have seen record #'s due to covid. No indoor games will see any meaningful bumps until we're virus free or have super effective vaccines. I still don't see how major sport's current covid-caused downturn would have ANY effect on getting people to go inside to play pool. No correlation there at all. Nothing but a pipe-dream imo.
I'm looking waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond the covid craze. Politics changes faster than money at a 1-P table (don't hate me...it's a joke).
I'm looking 20 years down the road at what CAN be and asking marketeers to maybe have a better attitude as to what's happening now.
Thanks for your responses,
Jeff Livingston
Even been in any marketing meetings? Most of those folks thinks in terms of days-n-weeks not 20yrs. NO ONE in the pool business would invest time or money in a double decade long-game strategy. The return on investment would be not that big and not worth the time or the $$. Keep livin' that dream brother.
I think snooker has a good platform/design, but they don't have it totally figured out yet for the masses. The game of round objects on the green felts, is not appreciated by the simple minds, it looks boring/simple to them, no different than if you were to watch a chess match, but even more difficult. Most sports must be cultivated from the bottom up to create a true sport/game and following. Like school sports from youth thru college. Not many parents want their kids to be anywhere near a pool room, liquor and that night life. Totally understandable.
I made a comment back on the second page to the same effect. It's the default thought to equate pool with 'bad'. Assuming the game can get passed that image. It will still need to gain enough respect to be considered 'not as bad' or 'just as good as' something else people are willing to accept without hesitation.
Speaking for myself... I'm an avid pool player, but wouldn't want my daughters hanging out in a pool room.
I think that has a lot to do with viewership.
Why would anyone watch a match that didn't play themselves, don't understand the beauty of the game, and are bombarded with terms that have no meaning to them. The commentators get too technical for broader adoption.Hell, I love to hunt and fish but I don't/rarely watch hunting and fishing shows. I'd rather BE hunting and fishing. I'd be even less inclined to watch Bill Dance catch a fish if I didn't fish myself!
Totally agree the sport needs to be sexed up with better coverage and commentary followed by player personalities the common person can relate to or get involved with. But even with that I'd guess it's a marginal uplift in viewership...
Most movies that utilize a pool table as part of their production, backdrop, or for just a small video bite, show violence, drugs and bar scenes with negativity. Look how long it took poker to feel acceptable to the masses', yet those people have the same type of issues and situations. I would never of approved of either of my daughters marrying a professional card player.
You must be alone among American sports fans in not knowing who is in the Super Bowl. The TV ratings for both the AFC Championship game and the NFC Championship game, both played on 1/24, were up over last year. In addition, quite impressively, the upcoming Super Bowl will be played in front of 22,000 fans. Don't be surprised if the Super Bowl to be played on 2/7 is one of the most watch Super Bowls ever.
The NFL appears to have weathered the storm for now. Don't cry for football, but sports played indoors, like pool, are recovering far more slowly.
A quiet audience is best with soft speaking commentators.
The Ra Ra applause is a major distraction. If I see a replay, I watch it on mute.
Golf is a sport that has this right.
Also an audience who has an attention span of a minute or two versus those
30 second focused observers.
The Ra Ra applause is a major distraction. If I see a replay, I watch it on mute.
Golf is a sport that has this right.
Also an audience who has an attention span of a minute or two versus those
30 second focused observers.
I didn't know that. I quit watching after the military took over football years ago, but the noise came through despite that. Parties were planned, bars were doing specials, etc etc.
Not this year. KC is the closest pro team to us, too. 3 hours or so away, yet, I still didn't know.
Jeff Livingston
I think there is some truth in that. As far as general play concerns... When I watch tv matches, I am thinking that the general public (where new pool fans could come from) does not understand how hard the game is. That the pros are not just shooting shots and making some tricky ones... that, more importantly, they are doing this while envisioning a strategy and then accomplishing that strategy by controlling the cue ball. Again, I will say, that NUMERO UNO might be that they MUST highlight onscreen the object ball and the NEXT object ball.
That's what it will take to make the sport popular. That's what it took in golf - a whole generation willing to work for nothing but the sport itself. Think Bobby Jones and his generation made any money (other than gambling) at golf?
Still, would golf be watchable if every hole on every course was the same? Even now, golf courses change the holes with hole positions, tee positions, and course renovations to provide different challenges and keep things interesting. What if the tables weren't rectangular or flat (I'm talking intentionally warped), or the rails were different? There would be a lot more variety to the game, and different players might be favored in different events. Right now you could almost build a pool-playing robot that plays like a chess computer. That's not watchable.
Golf courses are designed for different levels of skill.
Pool tables are, too. If the watchers play on big pocketed 7 footers, if they are informed, they'll appreciate those who play well on 9 footers with tight pockets, like golf bangers enjoy watching the pros putt at Augusta, for example. They know the conditions are verrrrrrrrry different from their home courses and this is attractive to them to watch.
You APA guys have been the nuts for getting new players into the game. What's the attitude now there in St Louis?
Jeff Livingston
I think there's some truth in this. In a nine ball match, if a top 25 in the world is perfect on the four ball, they'll run out 90% or the time, often making the next six shots both routine and boring to watch. I think for me, this explains why I've always believed the tactics, defense and kicking to be the most interesting part of the game, but one cannot expect the casual fan to embrace the finer points of the play (you know, the parts often omitted in the youtube videos of matches).
As we saw at this year's Mosconi, tougher equipment makes the runouts far more challenging and, at least for this fan, more interesting to watch. The equipment has to compensate for just how straight the top players of today really shoot. There are far more straight shooters today than fifteen years ago, but equipment is about the same, so the game does, as you suggest, look too easy.
By comparison, even though there are far more misses on a snooker table, viewers understand just how difficult the conditions are and appreciate that even the world's best miss quite a bit.
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boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
While not discounting your thoughts, I disagree on 9 ball. No one plays that except people into pool. If you want a casual audience, 8 ball is the only answer. I think this is DUMB, but you gotta remember all the bar rules and complete BS that that entails. Hell, maybe just straight bar pool with no BIH is the answer, but you have to account for the "dirty pool" aspect. Maybe no BIH but BIH in the kitchen on a foul. Let the audience vote if the player played a "dirty pool" type shot and deduct a point... I don't know. I can't tell you the winning formula, but 9B, while a fine game, is boring to watch and doesn't interest the causal audience. It's too much, they can't appreciate good position play, so shooting the balls in order isn't entertaining or engaging to them.
Definitely, with current technology, there should be things like the moving/superimposed 1st down line in football. That one invention revolutionized the sport for those not super into football, hockey does a similar thing with hard to see pucks at times. I sound like I'm on a soapbox, but 9B when played at high levels just looks stupidly easy. No one wants to see paint by numbers and that's what 9B is. I'd almost say that a more amateur event or something played by regular people would be more entertaining. Like maybe take a couple C players and let them have some world class players coach them. Then have the pro's play each other. Make it a best 2 out of 3 thing. The C players play, the Pros play, then Scotch Doubles for the tie breaker if there is one. Think about game shows like Who Wants to be a Millionaire, all the gimmicks, like the audience voting, calling a friend etc. You HAVE to make it more interactive and appealing to casuals. Nobody, except us pool nuts, likes seeing paint by numbers.
Popular pool events like the old Mosconi vs Fats matches back in the day... the big names missed way more shots than the pros now. You can't make the game look easy or casual fans discount it. That formula worked, you have a super serious Mosconi who wants pool to be a respectable past time, then you have Fats just talking mad shit. Mosconi was obviously a better player, but would any casual viewer enjoy the match as much without Fats? Pool has enough characters, you just got to give them the lime light.
I agree, you just need some funky tables to make it interesting. Just go to some local bar or hole in the wall and play on whatever is there. Crappy cloth with June bugs on it in someone's garage with a dead rail, humidity a la Filipino tables, a mix of GC, Diamonds, home tables, tightened gambling pockets, snooker style curved pockets, etc. Talk it up, hell have two snooker style pockets on a table as an obstacle. I'm not meaning completely crap tables, but a variety could be interesting, especially if they made it a point to talk about. Causal audiences are looking for entertainment and unique, not robots.
Designed for all levels, yes, but set up for the audience you want. Most of the time courses are designed for all levels or some subset of levels. There are many courses I won't take my daughter to, because they are too hard for her to enjoy. I myself enjoy any course as long as it's not set up for a pro tournament. Things like super fast greens, pin positions, or rough so thick you can lose your ball a foot off the fairway and can't advance it more than three feet even if you do find it. Stuff like that makes the course unplayable for me but is a differentiator for the pros. It also makes the game somewhat watchable for me - I know the differences in course setup and how hard some of those shots are. Other things are also done when the pros come, things like manicured fairways without divots, well maintained bunkers, and water that has been clarified (that's a big one, you should see Augusta National in the offseason). Just look at the Masters last year, without all the blossoms and birds. It was a much different experience for the TV audience. All are beautification things for the TV audience, and some even make the game easier for the pros. Pros don't play on beginner courses, there's no amount of setup that can be done to make it challenging enough. That's where I think pool is, you can set up existing tables for better amateurs, but not to differentiate pros. You need tables that are never easy enough for the lower half of the amateur crowd.
Yet still, even with those things, golf courses have to make real changes in the design if they want the pros to keep coming. They have to provide variance from year to year for that select group. That's something pool doesn't provide.
The attitude in St. Louis is to do what you can to get existing players back. About 40% of the leagues are still shut down, so the APA lost a lot of revenue last year while working harder than ever. They've been rescheduling events instead of canceling them so players still get what they were promised, but each time they reschedule it gets harder. Once people feel safe being indoors for prolonged periods, the interest will still be there and there may even be an explosion, it's just a question of time and whether they can endure the storm until then.
We have a lot of leagues where i play. BCA/CSI, APA, TAP etc. Few, if ANY, of the players know anything or care about pro pool. If tv/streaming has little-to-zero effect on these players how is it ever going to draw sports fans who play next to no pool?