What would you do here?

[3RAILKICK]

There are several options available here. Both for the runnout, and for the safes. My thinking is- short race, I don't want my opponent to get to the table if I can help it. So, I went for the runnout. (surprise, surprise, :smile

Now, there are several good ways to break out the 2-9. The trick is to do it with control. You DON'T want to just go into them and hope to get a shot. Especially not when it is fairly easy to do it with control. What I did is nothing more than knowing how to aim it properly, and speed control.

If you look at the diagram, the yellow line from the 1 to the 9 is an imaginary line drawn from center of the 1 to where I want to hit the 9. The dotted cb is the ghost cb to make the 1 in the bottom side. I chose the bottom side because at that angle, it is a big and close pocket.

Cue ball A is my BIH. To know where to place it, I look at where the yellow line comes into the back of the 1. I keep that spot in my head. I then move the cb around until a straight line through the center of the cb goes to that spot I picked, and also lines up for the ghost ball contact point. Now, all I have to do is hit the cb with follow and the proper speed to go a little more than to the bottom rail and off a few inches. I did that, and had a great, easy shot on the 2 for the runnout.

The point of this scenario is to show that taking a few seconds longer to set up the cb correctly pays off. No guess work involved outside of the speed. Why shoot a guestimate shot when you can shoot an aimed shot?? It's all about using what you know to your advantage. Doing that, I not only could hit the 9, but I hit the correct side of the 9. (If you chose the draw method, that also has an easy way to aim it.) One of the things that separates the players, is when one is guessing, and the other is aiming.

CueTable Help

Neil-

Nice shot. (Possible shout out to Bob Jewett in order here?) Armed with the knowledge still requires good execution that considers all the table and equipment variables.

Additional questions-

How would you advise accurately aiming the off angle draw shot to hit the correct target ball(9 or 2)?

What safety play did you consider with BIH?

Did the short race simply make the 'go' decision easier? Did you give much consideration to a safety play?

These 'Wachagoinados' are always fun. I never get one right-assuming there is only one right choice of shot.

Take care

 

[midstroke]

Draw cue ball just a bit when shooting one ball. Then bank the two under you for a safe behind six. Just a thought

CueTable Help

 

[Neil]

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[BRKNRUN]

This is one of those "need to see it in person" shots....We are talking about a 7 foot table here...

The carom is not on...but what about the rail first combo??? It has a built in safety....If my confidence is high I probably play shape for the rail first combo and "just in case" keep the CB behind the 5/8...The 2 ball is going to go uptable...

If I don't like the combo...I would play Niel's shot.....however...I would aim to hit in between the 9 and 2....This gives me the biggest margin for error.....Funny things can happen if you hit the 9 to thin on the left...or hit the 2 thin on the right.

 

[3RAILKICK]

Originally Posted by 3RAILKICK
Neil-

Nice shot. (Possible shout out to Bob Jewett in order here?) Armed with the knowledge still requires good execution that considers all the table and equipment variables.

Additional questions-

How would you advise accurately aiming the off angle draw shot to hit the correct target ball(9 or 2)?

Neil's response:

Draw a line from where you want the cb to end up to the center of the 1. When you place the cb, draw a line from it to the center of the one. You want to hit halfway between the two centers you found on the one. Adjust the cb as necessary so you can still make the one hitting the correct spot.

Further question:

Do I understand correctly?-in effect are you setting up BIH for the draw to create an 'angle in=angle out' sort of thing? The cut angle to the pocket will be very similar to the draw back angle after contact (mirror image)? particularly if the cut angle is slight? with more angled cuts-don't you sometimes get some lateral stun/slide before the cb draws back that may be harder to judge, especially if you have to hit hard enough to draw a fair distance?

Just trying to visualize what you have described.

Thanks, again

 

[Neil]

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[Aaron_S]

Nice shot and nice out Neil! Wow, 1/2" either direction and you would have either been double-kissing the 9 or catching it so thinly that it would have parked itself squarely between the cueball and the 2. My only question is, if you have a system that consistently provides that amazing level of accuracy, why would you tangle with the 9 at all when you could have aimed at the right side of the 2 and bumped it out for 4 potential shots (2-9 combo, 2-9 carom, 2 in the top right pocket, or safety) with no risk of getting hooked?

Aaron

 

[Patrick Johnson]

3RAILKICK:
...are you setting up BIH for the draw to create an 'angle in=angle out' sort of thing? The cut angle to the pocket will be very similar to the draw back angle after contact (mirror image)? particularly if the cut angle is slight? with more angled cuts-don't you sometimes get some lateral stun/slide before the cb draws back that may be harder to judge, especially if you have to hit hard enough to draw a fair distance?

Actually, the general rule of thumb for aiming draw shots is that the "angle out" will be twice the "angle in". In other words, if you want the CB to draw back at a 45-degree angle to its line of approach, then you need to cut the OB at a 15-degree angle (1/3 of the desired angle, not 1/2). Of course, the steeper the angle the less precise you need to be with this, and at the steep angle of this shot estimating 1/2 (as Neil says) is probably about as good as estimating 1/3.

Also, because of the variables you and Neil mentioned (plus some others), this is more of an art than a science - you shouldn't rely on extreme accuracy, especially if you haven't hit a million of these shots.

Here's Dr. Dave's article on this aiming technique: http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2006/march06.pdf

pj
chgo

 

[Neil]

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[Aaron_S]

The shot you mentioned is a possiblity, and looks great on paper. But, you really can't count on being THAT accurate. If I missed the 2, then I did have the option of banking the 2 into the 9, but I envisioned the 9 hanging up on me, so I tossed that thought immediately.

It seems that you were, in effect, counting on that degree of accuracy, though, since the double kiss or hook would have both been negative, possibly devastating, results.

Sometimes you can look at a shot, and just SEE it. You KNOW you are going to pull it off. This was one of those cases.

I definitely know what you mean here. Some shots just feel right and some don't.

Going for the far side of the 9, I automatically built in a two way shot. If I hit it good, I had the run. Hit it bad, or miss it altogether, and I still had the option to figure out a safe then.

Yes, but possibly a kick safe, which wouldn't be a factor going to the other side.

If you have the option for a possible runnout, and then a safe if you don't get it, it would be foolish to play the safe and NOT go for the runnout attempt. ANY time you play safe, no matter how good a safe, you are turning the table back over to your opponent. And, each time, he has two things that can go good for him- skill, and luck. Try and minimize him getting those two possibilities as much as possible.

For sure this is true, but I think when there's a risk of getting hooked, as in this case, that should come into the equation as well.

90% of the time someone plays safe, they are in the retreat mode. The other 10% is strategy such as breaking up trouble balls while hooking your opponent. Too many focus on retreating when they should be focusing on advancing. Their first thought is "How can I play safe from here?" instead of "How can I win from here?" Your first thought should be on how to win. When you can't figure that out, THEN you start looking for how you can delay the game or change the layout to possibly give you another chance at winning. Never underestimate what your opponent can pull out of their arse if you let them back at the table!

As an almost exclusive big table player, I have a different philosophy about safety play. Many safeties that are not necessarily safe on a barbox are very safe on a big table, so I definitely have an adjustment to make when it comes to strategy on the small table. I'm working on that, but I still don't quite think like a small table player. Seems like every time I play a match on a barbox somebody kicks a ball in a runs out, so it is slowly getting ground into my brain over time.

Anyway, thanks for posting the scenario. I do enjoy thinking about and discussing them.

Aaron