What would you do in this situation?

[LastTwo]

A few months back I was playing in the finals of a $2000 added tournament. In a race to 8, I was leading at 7-5, spotting my opponent 2 games so he has to win 6 and I need to win 8. I dog a 6-ball, my opponent runs out, then he breaks and sinks in the 9. Now it's hill-hill, and from my opponent's break, I run down to the 6 ball. Here is the layout as best as I can remember:

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I remember considering playing position for a safety, but my arm was kind of shaky from nerves and I wanted to go for the runout and get it over with. I thought long, and just didn't feel comfortable playing safe. I also felt pretty confident about playing shape for the 7 in the side, so this is what I wanted to do:

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%F\2G2%GN3G3%HP1G1%Ir5V0%Pa7J3%U]4H8%V`8I7%WK0D8%XO3Z7%eA8b1
%_O7Z1%`S8N9%a\1H4
)END

Now on that shot I knew that if I hit it with a bit too much juice, I had a good chance of the cueball running into the 7-8 cluster and breaking them up. That thought of too much juice on the CB must have crossed my mind again at the last second when I shot it, so I didn't put as much juice as I intended, and my position wound up like this:

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%F\2G2%GN3G3%HP1G1%Ir5V0%PD6D2%U]4H8%V`8I7%WC8F2%XL8Z0%YD0D5
%ZC5D9%eA8b1%_M7Z1%`R3P3%a\1H4
)END

Now as you can imagine, with the thought of winning either $1000 for 1st or $500 for second, I was completely rattled. I went to the bathroom, splashed water on my face, and came back and surveyed my options. I remember eying up the 7-8 combo, but it was a bit more off angle than I showed here in the diagram. I couldn't see an obvious safe, so I went for the 7 in the side. This seemed like my best option, because it granted my natural position on the 8 like this:

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%F[0B5%GN3G3%HP1G1%Ir5V0%PD4D2%US5C9%VN2F2%WJ7M4%XL8Z0%YM1F2
%ZE2D3%[r6H3%\T2C7%]^7K0%^r5H5%eA8b1%_Z9Z8%`Q1K9%aN8H2
)END

My nerves got the best of me and I rattled the 7 in and out of the side. My opponent, who was a bit nervous too, ran down to the 9-ball on the short side, and hung it up for me to take the win. I must say, it was quite an emotional roller-coaster....I was in utter misery when I missed the 7 ball, and when he got decent position on the 9 I knew it was over....but the 9 just stopped in the hole and he just walked over and shook my hand.

So if you were in this situation, how would you have tried to play it out?

 

[sjm]

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START(%F\2G2%GN3G3%HP1G1%Ir5V0%PD6D2%U]4H8%V`8I7%WC8F2%XL8Z0%YD0D5%ZC5D9%eA8b1%_M7Z1%`R3P3%a\1H4)END


START(%F[0B5%GN3G3%HP1G1%Ir5V0%PD4D2%US5C9%VN2F2%WJ7M4%XL8Z0%YM1F23%[r6H3%\T2C7%]^7K0%^r5H5%eA8b1%_Z9Z8%`Q1K9%aN8H2)END

A picture representation of these four Wei images:

 

[sjm]

Before replying, I need to ask whether the seven-eight combo in the corner was on or not. In the diagram, it looks makeable, but in the actual play, was it on from the right position? I agree that it was low percentage from where you eneded up.

 

[LastTwo]

I mentioned that I was eyeing it up but it was slightly off angle, a bit more than I made it look in the diagram. The main problem is that the table I was playing on is extremely tight. You can fit approximately 1 and 1/2 balls in the corner pockets. If you hit a shot slightly bad it usually rattles and hangs in the hole.

 

[sjm]

I mentioned that I was eyeing it up but it was slightly off angle, a bit more than I made it look in the diagram. The main problem is that the table I was playing on is extremely tight. You can fit approximately 1 and 1/2 balls in the corner pockets. If you hit a shot slightly bad it usually rattles and hangs in the hole.

Thanks, I'll give it some thought and report back shortly.

 

[Celtic]

I would cut the 6 in with top right and come off the end rail with the weight to come close to the same place you tried to end up playing that huge bottom left siding shot. The angle you pictured is too thin to even make that shot you tried, although I am sure you are showing it a little off on WEI. Less angle makes the shot with tops even easier and almost would leave a straight tops breakout.

As you mentioned, playing the 6 in and getting shape on a safety to send the 7 around 3 rails and play the cueball tight behind the 8 is a winning shot, especially against someone who cleary does not play that strong as it seems your opponent did not.

 

[sjm]

I'll start by saying that going for the runout is mandatory here, although thought should be given to selecting a shot that reserves access to a safety if needed. The best chance here seems to be to try to play a soft two rail inside english shot as shown in my first diagram. If you find the correct cue ball path but overhit the speed, you'll get the breakout result shown in my second diagram. If you miss the stroke and pass the cluster, you'll still have access to the safety shown in diagram three below, with which you can leave the position shown in diagram four, and you'd still be a favorite to win the rack from there.

 

[Celtic]

SJM, in that final diagram a person could play the 7 ball up to the middle of the headrail and the cueball's natural path is 2 rails and under the 8 ball. There is a REAL good chance you are hooked and looking at a nasty kick which is likely to lose you the game if the guy can make that safe, which is very makeable.

START(
%F[2B4%GD0L3%HP1G1%Ir5V0%Pr6R1%Ug1R0%VD7L4%WF0L3%Xq3Q9%YD1K5
%ZD7L0%[J9D1%\C4J5%]N7E8%^L0C7%eA9a0
)END

or your opponent could play

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%F[3B2%GD3L3%HP1G1%Ir5V0%Pr5Q3%UE3M3%Vq4Q4%WO3E0%XC4K5%YD2M7
%ZD5M2%[R7Z8%\C3N6%eB5a3
)END

which is also not that hard and mighty likely to gain control of the table.

On the other hand playing

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%F\2G2%GN5G3%HP1G1%Ir5V0%Pa7J3%W]1H8%X`6I9%YD3J1%Z[5H5%]T0L2
%^C5J2
)END

so that you can then

START(
%F[3B2%GN5G3%HP1G1%Ir5V0%PT8L5%Uh8L6%VW6[3%WO8H7%XS9K7%YD3J1
%ZI8C7%[V7Z8%\C6K1%]J9D4%^M4F5
)END

and leave

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%F[3B2%Gj1K4%HP1G1%Ir5V0%PM8F9

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works wonders and leaves your opponent tough to win from there or even get a return safe.

I dont like the 2 way shot there, you can get the sure thing safety and keep control, or you can play the slight right hand siding shot to get shortside shape for the 7 in the side, I would pic one or the other, not the large right hand juice 2 rail breakout that if it goes bad makes you leave a fairly unsafe safety.

This is the first time ever using WEI, I dont really know how to do the imbedded pic thing, too lazy to find that old post and the link on there is caput too last time I looked.

 

[sjm]

SJM, in that final diagram a person could play the 7 ball up to the middle of the headrail and the cueball's natural path is 2 rails and under the 8 ball. There is a REAL good chance you are hooked and looking at a nasty kick which is likely to lose you the game if the guy can make that safe, which is very makeable.

Well said and point well taken, Celtic. Remember, though, that I'm playing for the runout, and that I have selected the exact same shot as you and Deadaim. My only intent in considering the "unintentional" breakout and also whether any defense would be available if the seven and the eight were passed was to demonstrate that I felt I had my downside covered with this choice. So far, it's unanimous that the soft inside english shot is best.

 

[Rickw]

I like cutting the six thin with a load of inside and spinning off the bottom rail for shape for the seven in the side pocket. Of course a lot depends on the type of cloth and how the rails take to english.

 

[crawdaddio]

I would probably play the 6 soft in the side with draw to leave the 7 cross corner. I am pretty comfortable with banks, though. Alot of players overlook their value, especially on an otherwise difficult runout such as this one. If you get good on the cross corner 7, you can just stun, or draw uptable a little for the 8 in the top left (as diagrammed) corner pocket...............you're out........cha-ching$

Peace
~DC

 

[sjm]

I would probably play the 6 soft in the side with draw to leave the 7 cross corner. I am pretty comfortable with banks, though. Alot of players overlook their value, especially on an otherwise difficult runout such as this one. If you get good on the cross corner 7, you can just stun, or draw uptable a little for the 8 in the top left (as diagrammed) corner pocket...............you're out........cha-ching$

Peace
~DC

I guess if you are good at banks, you'll like your chances to make the seven cross corner, but I'd argue that it might prove a tough shot on which to play shape onto the eight unless you get just right on it.

 

[Rod]

I agree with position on the 7. Problem is just a tiny difference in angle can make or break this shot. Without knowing the exact angle I'll add another view. If you play the 6 and bring the c/b near center table, like this

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%dC0M0
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You have a dead lock hiding the c/b behind the 7. If you get the angle perfect you might even freeze the c/b to the 7. It's definately worth considering depending on the 6 angle of course.

Rod

 

[LastTwo]

Before we go on I want to point out a few things. The top right shot was impossible to do during the situation, otherwise I would have done it. I guess I messed up on the angle of the shot a little bit. The angle was pointing too far away to hit the 6 ball thin and use top right. Also, my opponent was a very good player. Just because I was spotting him two games means squat. He had two break and runs on me in that set, he really didn't miss that many balls against me. That's why he got to where he was in the tournament- it was a very tough field. Alot of people complained that he was underrated in the tournament, but I said nothing, although I felt it was a bit tough giving him a 2 game spot. He dogged the 9 because of nerves and the tight pockets. He didn't get straight in, he was off angle and hit it bad.

 

[LastTwo]

Hi Last Two,

Play your PERCENTAGES:

Use a 1 o’clock hit or a half tip side on the cue ball, you didn’t have to hit it hard because side english will last a long time before it dissipates; use pocket speed.

Don’t just try to get somewhere on the 7 ball, pick a SPECIFIC spot on the table.

Your play should have been to get position for the 7 in the side, the WORSE that could have happened is you get to play a killer safe by lagging the cue ball behind the 8 ball.

Geez, what’s wrong with that?

You got lucky and won the game! Remember what Buddy Hall says, “how do I win from here”; your objective is to WIN the game, NOT hope you win the game.

You DON’T want to break up a cluster unless you KNOW you have position on the 7 ball, everybody says this in the posts, “watch the pros”; they will never break a cluster up unless they are absolutely SURE of the outcome. I’m not a fan of writers of billiard books, but even they say not to break up a cluster unless your NEXT ball is close to a pocket. Let’s say the 6 ball is on the opposite side of the table and the 5 ball is where the 6 ball is now, THEN you break the cluster because the six is near a pocket.

Joe

LOL who said I broke up a cluster? I tried to play shape in the side. Notice I pointed out the spot where I wanted to be, but my nerves caused me to get somewhere else.

So you think that the whole match I was just sitting back and hoping I would win the game? ROFL how old are you? 12? Like I said in my first post, I was nervous. If you ever play in the finals of a big tournament, you will be nervous too. So shut up with your criticism already, you're not making any sense.

 

[Rod]

Just as I suspected was possible. It's real hard sometimes to put the balls where they look right on the wei. Because a small difference can make a big difference on this shot. Well not to mention others.

Rod

 

[LastTwo]

This tournament was about 5 months ago, but I can still remember the layout of the last game because of the shot I missed on the 7 and where my opponent left himself on the 9 that he missed. My opponent was such a nice guy, he really was gracious in defeat.

 

[crawdaddio]

LastTwo--
I love that quote in your sig.

 

[LastTwo]

LastTwo--
I love that quote in your sig.

I'm looking for the link that has almost all of Dubya's funniest quotes. I'll get back to you in a while.

 

[Pictoras]

What about this one?

What do you think about this approach,

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%\L5[1%]M7Z5%^\3H0%eC3b2
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Worst case scenario u end up breaking the 7-8, or better in case you play to break the 7-8 i think is the best angle from wich the white should strike the combo.