What's better playing someone way better

O

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And hardley getting a shot or playing someone a little better and getting shots

I'm of the school of thought that playing better players is the best way to learn however if the player is way better it's hard to get enough shots to improve

I ran into this today playing one pocket even with a guy who could easily beat me 10-6 or better , I lost 8 straight games and I folded
Then the debate came ,, I was told that's the only way to get better , I argued that I would learn the game better playing someone say 9-7 and getting more shots than playing someone who's way out of my league who always has me locked down and one mistake and he's out
Mind you I'm playing cheap and I'm not trying to get a game with a big spot to win
I'm trying to learn and get enough shots to understand patterns and such better

What do you guys think is the fastest path to learning


1
 
I agree, playing better is good, playing someone way better can be a waste of time. I can watch and observe excellent pool at home thanks to YouTube. I only get so much time at the table and when I get that time I need to make sure I make the most of it by actually being at the table a reasonable amount of time. I like to play people who, if I play my best game and they p,any average I have a decent chance of winning. They'll win on average, but at least I'm within the realm of being able to make it a challenge.

Don't mind losing, but don't like sitting in the chair the whole time. I can watch at home.
 
I think you answered your own question. Kinda like how in minor league baseball, you don't see triple a teams playing against single a teams.


Eric
 
I think it depends on the person you are playing and how willing they are to give you tips. I am lucky that the "way better" player that I usually play against will give good advice most of the time.
Playing either player it is important to try to learn a few things while you are in the chair.
 
4 ways, and in no particular order of what's best.


1. Solitary practice. Not just throwing balls out and trying to make them. Having a plan for each session, and following it through to the end. Being honest enough with yourself to know your weaknesses, and then making the time to work on them.

2. Gambling. I agree with you that being a rack b*tch isn't going to get you anywhere. But you do need to play those equal to you or slightly better. Try sticking with players that are only 2-3 balls better at the most. Play for stakes low enough that you aren't crippled by the fear of losing, and high enough that you'll enjoy winning.

3. Competitive Practice. This might not be for everyone, but in can work if you're one of those people that can still give it your all even when the only thing on the line is pride.

4. Tournaments. C and under, stick with handicapped tournaments and play the occasional open. Don't use the handicap system to slow your growth or stay under the radar. Take pride in moving up. B and up, try to play as many open tournaments as possible.
 
BeiberLvr said:
4 ways, and in no particular order of what's best.


1. Solitary practice. Not just throwing balls out and trying to make them. Having a plan for each session, and following it through to the end. Being honest enough with yourself to know your weaknesses, and then making the time to work on them.

2. Gambling. I agree with you that being a rack b*tch isn't going to get you anywhere. But you do need to play those equal to you or slightly better. Try sticking with players that are only 2-3 balls better at the most. Play for stakes low enough that you aren't crippled by the fear of losing, and high enough that you'll enjoy winning.

3. Competitive Practice. This might not be for everyone, but in can work if you're one of those people that can still give it your all even when the only thing on the line is pride.

4. Tournaments. C and under, stick with handicapped tournaments and play the occasional open. Don't use the handicap system to slow your growth or stay under the radar. Take pride in moving up. B and up, try to play as many open tournaments as possible.
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I'm a solid B player with a A gear rotation this guy is a A player one pocket player
1
 
I think that just playing with someone way better will discourage your enthusiasm if that's all you do. Mix it up and play different players of different abilities. The problem arises when players won't play players better than themselves.

If you look at different parts of the country and world, you will notice that top players seem to come from pockets of strong competition. Philippines, Taiwan, etc. seem to churn out good players. There are outliers but good competition breeds better players.
 
one stroke said:
What do you guys think is the fastest path to learning


1
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Employ an instructor. I totally agree with you about playing a run out shooter unless he'll stop to critique the shots. Others say play for cash and you'll learn fast. Not really.
I take lessons from a 1st class player/instructor. I'd rather pay someone to teach me than to play someone way over my head and sit and watch. My instructor is Tom Wirth in DelRay Beach, Fl. His book "One Pocket...A game of controlled aggression" helps greatly also. I'm a player that does not learn on my own. I need help....and it's working. Consider pool school or hire a qualified instructor to teach Take Outs. Drills, and table play. Learn what to practice and then take it to the game. That is the fastest path.
 
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At least that's been my experience with others.

I KNOW that playing (and paying) much better players WHO CAN TEACH YOU WHAT THEY DO, HOW THEY DO IT AND WHEN THEY DO IT is better than playing cheap or high with them.

I have a student who likes to do some small stakes gambling while learning. I've told him that he will improve faster if he works on his fundamentals first, his one pocket knowledge second and his gambling skills LAST.

In most cases, a much better player will never give the lesser player enough weight for them to win. If he does, he will recalculate and alter the spot rather quickly.

The problem for most people is they would rather enjoy playing with a much better player for small stakes than giving them money for good solid pool lessons and then be responsible for working on the information learned.

Working on fundamentals, gaining knowledge and learning when and how to execute with that knowledge is hard work. Most people don't like hard work.


JoeyA


one stroke said:
And hardley getting a shot or playing someone a little better and getting shots

I'm of the school of thought that playing better players is the best way to learn however if the player is way better it's hard to get enough shots to improve

I ran into this today playing one pocket even with a guy who could easily beat me 10-6 or better , I lost 8 straight games and I folded
Then the debate came ,, I was told that's the only way to get better , I argued that I would learn the game better playing someone say 9-7 and getting more shots than playing someone who's way out of my league who always has me locked down and one mistake and he's out
Mind you I'm playing cheap and I'm not trying to get a game with a big spot to win
I'm trying to learn and get enough shots to understand patterns and such better

What do you guys think is the fastest path to learning


1
Click to expand...
 
Someone on here suggested watching 1p videos like this:
Pause between each shot.
1.Figure out what you would do.
2.Continue and watch what was done.
3.Pause, figure out why.
Repeat.

If you get good enough at guessing what should be done but can't do it your self,
You might become a commentator :)
 
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one stroke said:
And hardley getting a shot or playing someone a little better and getting shots

I'm of the school of thought that playing better players is the best way to learn however if the player is way better it's hard to get enough shots to improve

I ran into this today playing one pocket even with a guy who could easily beat me 10-6 or better , I lost 8 straight games and I folded
Then the debate came ,, I was told that's the only way to get better , I argued that I would learn the game better playing someone say 9-7 and getting more shots than playing someone who's way out of my league who always has me locked down and one mistake and he's out
Mind you I'm playing cheap and I'm not trying to get a game with a big spot to win
I'm trying to learn and get enough shots to understand patterns and such better

What do you guys think is the fastest path to learning


1
Click to expand...


I used to play a national champion in snooker back when I was a lot worse than now. He'd practically never make any sort of mistake, if you left him any shot, even really long and hard he'd be out or close to it, and his safety game was great too. To me it was pointless to play such a player. I'd be so tight and worried about making mistakes that I couldn't perform at more than 50% at any time. I lost all confidence, even in practice and I fell completely apart as a player. More solo practice was the answer for me. What is the point of never getting a shot? Might as well watch snooker on tv. As long as there are critical parts of the game you do not master, they will keep coming up to bite you in the ass. Gambling won't help you with that. Of course after practicing really hard and upping me level it made more sense to go back and ask for a game, which I did.

I'm not an expert on one-pocket, but I figure that if you are always locked up against that guy, more practice on these kinds of situations may be good. Playing a guy for money while learning probably isn't the way to go. What will losing over and over without hope of winning ever do for you? Is getting pissed off over losing money going to get you your spark back? Aren't you allready pissed off enough after losing all these times, does it not inspire you to practice and wipe the smirk off his face? Practice your banks/kicks/long shots or whatever you need, then come back and kick his ass. One pocket is an odd-duck as far as pool games go, but I know this from playing other pool games: Once you nail that long hard shot with position, they are going to feel the heat, just like you do now. Shoot straight, fear no man.
 
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"You must play better players to improve' is a myth started by....you guessed it...better players! Its an easy way for them to 'give you a few tips' and take your money.
WATCH better players, live or utube or whatever.
Take some lessons from a GOOD instructor ( a lot of good players cant teach )!
Get in action with players like you or under you, then you can try new stuff you think you learned....did it work or no?
Giving away your $$$ just makes you a sucker in the eyes of 'better players'.
I've seen it for over 45 yrs. Losing just gets you used to losing, and that 'losing gracefully' just means you lose a lot!
Good luck ( which wont even help you when playin 'better players' even ) !
ps
Buy Tom Wirth's book ( One Pocket: A Game of Controlled Aggression ).
And if possible, take some lessons from Tommy, he is great, and a good guy.
 
one stroke said:
And hardley getting a shot or playing someone a little better and getting shots

I'm of the school of thought that playing better players is the best way to learn however if the player is way better it's hard to get enough shots to improve

I ran into this today playing one pocket even with a guy who could easily beat me 10-6 or better , I lost 8 straight games and I folded
Then the debate came ,, I was told that's the only way to get better , I argued that I would learn the game better playing someone say 9-7 and getting more shots than playing someone who's way out of my league who always has me locked down and one mistake and he's out
Mind you I'm playing cheap and I'm not trying to get a game with a big spot to win
I'm trying to learn and get enough shots to understand patterns and such better

What do you guys think is the fastest path to learning


1
Click to expand...
Playing someone that is just going to run out on me every set is probably gonna piss me off and make me think I have to step up my game to hang. So I would put in more time on the table, and working hard at improving.

Now if someone is a little better then me, then that is a good game, I find myself stepping up my game just to hang. It feels like I am playing a step above.

Truth is yeah getting a chance to play is of course more fun, but if you get to get some advice and pointers from the type of player that is running out sets on you, that advice could be very valuable. Lets face it, the guy running sets on you knows what he is doing so you will get good advice.
 
GoldCrown said:
Employ an instructor. I totally agree with you about playing a run out shooter unless he'll stop to critique the shots. Others say play for cash and you'll learn fast. Not really.
I take lessons from a 1st class player/instructor. I'd rather pay someone to teach me than to play someone way over my head and sit and watch. My instructor is Tom Wirth in DelRay Beach, Fl. His book "One Pocket...A game of controlled aggression" helps greatly also. I'm a player that does not learn on my own. I need help....and it's working. Consider pool school or hire a qualified instructor to teach Take Outs. Drills, and table play. Learn what to practice and then take it to the game. That is the fastest path.
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Ya I'm getting that ,Tom Tom is a old friend of mine the guy I was playing is just below his speed


1
 
one stroke said:
Ya I'm getting that ,Tom Tom is a old friend of mine the guy I was playing is just below his speed
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Tom might be in MD next week. Contact him now...maybe you can hook up with him. Tom is the perfect guy to know. He is all about 1P. He is a master player. He is a master instructor. Very down to earth kind of person. Tom's the One to know. Nobody teaches better.

I hope you can connect with him. I'd like to hear how things work out. Tom had a student from out of town last week. The person came in for a 3 day instruction session.
 
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I agree with Joey's assessment. Since learning is always a progressive thing, then it makes sense to players others at your own level (primarily) and then move up as you become better. Banging balls with someone at a level lower than yours is counterproductive unless, of course, you are cleaning their clock in a tournament. :smile:
 
Dear "One Stroke,"

Any sports psychologist will tell you NOT to play an opponent who is just way better than you. I once lost a tournament race to three in one pocket to Evgeny Stalev in under seventeen minutes. Do you think I learned anything from that loss? Sure, I did. I learned NOT to play Evgeny Stalev.

Play people somewhat better than you are, not wildly better than you are, and then as you improve (whether through instruction or practice) move up the food chain gradually.

If you have to play a wildly better player and are getting a spot--I really, really should not give this away--play AS IF YOU ARE GETTING THE SPOT! Don't try to play run out one pocket. Don't try to play as if you are both trying to get to eight. If you are getting, say, 10 to seven, a run of three and then a duck behind a cluster can be devastating for you opponent.

You don't try to play like Alex Pagulayan when you are getting a spot!
 
Tobermory said:
Dear "One Stroke,"

Any sports psychologist will tell you NOT to play an opponent who is just way better than you. I once lost a tournament race to three in one pocket to Evgeny Stalev in under seventeen minutes. Do you think I learned anything from that loss? Sure, I did. I learned NOT to play Evgeny Stalev.

Play people somewhat better than you are, not wildly better than you are, and then as you improve (whether through instruction or practice) move up the food chain gradually.

If you have to play a wildly better player and are getting a spot--I really, really should not give this away--play AS IF YOU ARE GETTING THE SPOT! Don't try to play run out one pocket. Don't try to play as if you are both trying to get to eight. If you are getting, say, 10 to seven, a run of three and then a duck behind a cluster can be devastating for you opponent.

You don't try to play like Alex Pagulayan when you are getting a spot!
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Actualy mine never said anything like that ,, if your spending one second thinking about score and how bad your getting beat , you don't have your mind in the right place
The only thinking you should do is when your at the table with your shot
With that being said when your trying to learn any game / sport , you practice your fundementals , shots ect and you take it to the table court field ect and test it against competition to measure improvement
I feel you have no chance of gauging where your at if your Seriously outclassed and it would slow down your overall progress

1
 
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