A jump shot was posted on youtube from the top 15 shots of the recent World 9-Ball Championship that has me a little stumped. When viewed from above, the shooter seems to be aiming way off course for the yellow 1 ball at upper left. But when he pulls the trigger his cue twists and shoots the cueball correctly at the 1 and makes the shot. Was this intentional or is there just an optical illusion? Watch the shot #7 on youtube at this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhXeViGhm0k
Whats Going On Here? Jump Shot
- Thread starter eightandout
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He definitely struck the ball on a different line than he originally displayed...
But the contact point on the ob for a given cut is different for a jump, vs. a regular shot.
Shot occurs @ 3:30 time in linked vid, btw.
But the contact point on the ob for a given cut is different for a jump, vs. a regular shot.
Shot occurs @ 3:30 time in linked vid, btw.
I watched this live and I was thinking the same thing. His follow through even goes way to the left almost like a jump/masse shot. After seeing it I was thinking maybe he hit it that way so he could put some left spin on the cue ball to hold it a little off the rail for his next shot. Either way it was a pretty sick shot and this was against Shane at a very critical point in the match.
I think what you are seeing here is a situation where the player is too short to get the proper height/angle to jump the ball directly. He cannot generate sufficient force to get the cue ball to reach a height that would clear the obstacles.
To compensate, he torques is torso, similar to a break stroke, during the execution of the shot to create additional force/speed but the torqueing motion forces him to stroke across the aim line to the left, so to compensate, he must aim slightly to the right of the actual shot line.
To compensate, he torques is torso, similar to a break stroke, during the execution of the shot to create additional force/speed but the torqueing motion forces him to stroke across the aim line to the left, so to compensate, he must aim slightly to the right of the actual shot line.
No, he most definitely hit the shot as lined up there. And the contact point is the same.
Perfectly intended and executed.
It's not an illusion at all.
Not even close.
Because of where the two ball is sitting, if he would of shot a 'normal' jump, he would of never held or gotten back to position to the two ball. With a medium short distance jump, left/right hand english on a jump shot produces the opposite effect from squirt/deflection. It will literally pull the ball towards the side you hit on. So you see all the left he's putting on, he has to compensate to the right so much. That and when he hits it, the cue ball doesn't follow the visually lined up path so your perception gets lost in what he's doing. That is unless you've shot this shot before.
But then again, listen to half the people on this forum and you'd think that jump is a cinch with position 999/1000 times. That is probably the most difficult type of jump possible, and deserved so. Even people who are 'good' at jumping probably won't ever be able to perform that shot as is.
This does not sound correct at all...
It's an illusion caused by the camera angle. If the camera were directly above the cue, it would look like he was aiming at the 1, but the camera's off to one side a bit.
The body movement on the shot is mostly irrelevant. No amount of body movement or english or crooked stroking can allow you to aim where it looks like he's aiming and still hit the one. It's all about the camera angle.
-Andrew
The body movement on the shot is mostly irrelevant. No amount of body movement or english or crooked stroking can allow you to aim where it looks like he's aiming and still hit the one. It's all about the camera angle.
-Andrew
Thanks for the common sense. Definitely camera.
Just rotate your head to the left.
He may have been intentionally deflecting the ball for better approach angle but my point is that the twisting at the end of the stroke had nothing to do with the shot.
As far as I know I sold the first jump cue to a Taiwanese pro, Fong Pang Chao. And he took it back to Taiwan and showed them all what could be done with it. This led to them mastering jumping and is why they are so adept at it. Shortly after selling Chao the cue in Las Vegas I received an order for 500 which I sent to Taipei.
The only reason I mention it is because I believe that I am one of a handful of people on Earth who has really studied jumping with the jump cue to have a deeper understanding of how and why they work and how to use them effectively. I believe that I understand the physical act of jumping both in the underhanded position and the overhanded (dart stroke) position as well as any other accomplished jumper. That said I am not as proficient and accurate as top pros, some of whom I have taught.
Although it's hard to tell it appears as if he was putting a little right on the ball, not left. Which would be consistent with deflecting the ball if that was his intention. I think he simply wanted to make a good shot and let the cue ball go up table with the thought that if the one did not go then it should be safe and if it did then he could see the two.
Here is the video in slow motion http://www.youtubeslow.com/watch?v=fhXeViGhm0k
It can be seen that he is torqued in his body position as he addresses the shot. This is actually not the best way to be but I have observed that a lot of players have learned how to hit the ball correctly even though they are in a precarious stance. I could help him with the stance but I probably can't make him jump better since he has already developed the touch and skill he needs to know.
I believe that it is given what I know of both jumping and camera angle distortion.
If he would of put any right at all, he would of lost position. Here's a challenge for you. Since in the last month myself I have made pretty much that exact same shot, and a few others with the same aim->deflection approach. Set up that exact same shot, see if you can execute it like he did. Don't care about your approach, just want to see you control the cue ball like that. You say you have the theory why, but maybe not the skills. Well enough tries and you should get the understanding of the shot. At first you'll be losing the cue ball long on position for the two, if not leaving the cue ball on the rail or worse. Having it come back off the second rail for a safe. You'll probably try put some left on it, and miss the ball completely. Few tries later you'll probably make the ball again and come closer to position. But nothing like Yu Lung gets. That's because it's just BHE on a jump to apply the left, which essentially steers the cue ball through the jump. Which is why it looks so odd from above.
He's stroking through the left of the ball, not [striking left like you are assuming. There's a difference, and it's not just a subtle difference either. It's massive. Changes your perception of what a jump shot really is. Maybe you've already grasped the difference of the stroking and striking for jumps, but 99% of people who jump will never understand.
Cheng Yu Lung pushed to that position to jump from intentionally. SVB looked it over, and knowing the risks of trying to hold position, weighed the chances of CYL to hold for the two and chose wrong. SVB would end up doing almost the exact same thing as CYL I bet, and you'd be sitting here scratching your head about the shot still too. No matter how you want to justify it yourself JB, Cheng Yu Lung put left on the cue ball, and the cue ball did not deflect to the right.
Well you see far more in this video than I can so I will defer to you. All I know is what my 15 years of experience in this very subject tells me.
I can make that shot with any type of spin. Not consistently and neither can you or Chang although either of you might be more consistent than me, Chang for sure.
But I have demonstrated jumping with spin for 15 years and continue to do it adequately and accurately.
I don't need to justify anything. I know what that shot entails because I have not only demonstrated tougher ones into tighter spaces in exhibition and lessons I have successfully PLAYED tougher ones for money and in tournaments.
I know what I see and what I think about the shot. I am perfectly happy to be ok with us disagreeing about the exact way he played it and what was going through his head. I do agree that jumping - even with a jump cue - is an advanced skill and that this shot - and the fact that Chang pushed to it - is a prime example of that high level skill.
What a weird shot. It looks like he hits the ball at a completely different point to where he is lined up. Hard to tell how much the camera angle has to do with it, though.
Classic.
Classic.
Most def an optical illusion, as many have stated... and i can prove it 
the camera is not directly overhead of the shooter... however the LIGHTS are.
look at the shadow on the table produced by the cue, it is perfectly inline with the one ball
the camera is not directly overhead of the shooter... however the LIGHTS are.
look at the shadow on the table produced by the cue, it is perfectly inline with the one ball