What's the deal with close-mindedness?

Brian in VA said, "I train people for a living; I see this behavior all the time. Until someone has a reason, they won't learn. JMHO."

When I taught Criminology I told the students that one of the first principles of learning is, "You gotta have a hungry rat." :grin-square:
 
agreed!

JoeW said:
A few things come to mind. First and foremost is a lack of breadth in intellectual thinking. I live and have lived on both sides of the intellectual street. In the rarified halls of academia thinking tends to be much more open and accepting. Most academics would agree with the statement that, “A Ph.D. doesn’t mean a damn thing, unless you haven’t got one.”

Academics are acutely aware of their limitations (at least around their colleagues). Your link to the meaning of a Ph.D. is not only funny it is quite accurate and the vast majority of people in academia would appreciate it and would pass it around for the humor and the truth that it contains. However, academics can be equally as rigid.

Kuhn’s theory of a Paradigm Shift http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm_shift is one way to explain much of the rigidity that we see in the world. While there are several corollaries I like the idea that people grow up learning a particular way. As they mature they use this way and find it to be successful. This increases their commitment to a particular view. Later, the way is replaced with a new way that they have not learned, do not understand, and do not want to take the time to learn. To justify their commitment the new way must be devalued and the old way is better in their thinking. To have a revolution in thinking we have to wait for the old guys to die off.

Within the individual the same thing occurs. If you learn to play 8-Ball and you become reasonably good at it, then you develop a commitment to 8-Ball and it becomes the only game in town. Anything that is not 8-Ball related has to be devalued and this proves your commitment to the great game of 8-Ball. This devaluation includes, people, places, equipment, etc. The more you defend your idea the more you have to defend you own statements and defensiveness gets even stronger (see the resolution of dissonance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance).

With maturity and a modicum of intellectual ability we begin to realize what we have done to ourselves and we begin to branch out in our thinking. In my opinion this is one of the primary functions of a college education, to expand one’s ability to think and truly see the gray in the world.

Of course some people regardless of age, intellectual ability or education simply have emotional problems that tie them to a particular world view. They are of course limited by their emotional problem and that is a different topic indeed.

PS, It takes four years to get a liberalizing education. Of course there are other ways and some people who do attend never learn to expand their mind.
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"What he said,"
 and this, EVERYBODY, from day one, think they "KNOW HOW" to pocket the balls.
For some people, it takes "YEARS" to figure out that there's a right way to do it,
and
most folks in this sport never make it that far with their game!:shrug:
 
JoeW said:
Seems to me this is about why some pool players have rigid views and are close minded when it comes to pool related matters. The topic is quite appropriate for attempting to improve the civility of the forum.:)

The potential answers to the question are far ranging and may encompass more than pool players and why they do the things they do.
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I don't agree. It's drivel that adds nothing to how the game is played. It belongs in NPR. Its a soapbox thread.
 
JoeW said:
A few things come to mind. First and foremost is a lack of breadth in intellectual thinking. I live and have lived on both sides of the intellectual street. In the rarified halls of academia thinking tends to be much more open and accepting. Most academics would agree with the statement that, “A Ph.D. doesn’t mean a damn thing, unless you haven’t got one.”

Academics are acutely aware of their limitations (at least around their colleagues). Your link to the meaning of a Ph.D. is not only funny it is quite accurate and the vast majority of people in academia would appreciate it and would pass it around for the humor and the truth that it contains. However, academics can be equally as rigid.

Kuhn’s theory of a Paradigm Shift http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm_shift is one way to explain much of the rigidity that we see in the world. While there are several corollaries I like the idea that people grow up learning a particular way. As they mature they use this way and find it to be successful. This increases their commitment to a particular view. Later, the way is replaced with a new way that they have not learned, do not understand, and do not want to take the time to learn. To justify their commitment the new way must be devalued and the old way is better in their thinking. To have a revolution in thinking we have to wait for the old guys to die off.

Within the individual the same thing occurs. If you learn to play 8-Ball and you become reasonably good at it, then you develop a commitment to 8-Ball and it becomes the only game in town. Anything that is not 8-Ball related has to be devalued and this proves your commitment to the great game of 8-Ball. This devaluation includes, people, places, equipment, etc. The more you defend your idea the more you have to defend you own statements and defensiveness gets even stronger (see the resolution of dissonance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance).

With maturity and a modicum of intellectual ability we begin to realize what we have done to ourselves and we begin to branch out in our thinking. In my opinion this is one of the primary functions of a college education, to expand one’s ability to think and truly see the gray in the world.

Of course some people regardless of age, intellectual ability or education simply have emotional problems that tie them to a particular world view. They are of course limited by their emotional problem and that is a different topic indeed.

PS, It takes four years to get a liberalizing education. Of course there are other ways and some people who do attend never learn to expand their mind.
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There are numerous examples throughout history in which some very well-educated people simply had the wrong beliefs. Some examples include Ptolemy's model that the Earth is the center of the solar system and the stars move along spheres that revolve around the Earth. Ptolemy's astromony is based upon the physics developed by Aristotle which included many mistaken beliefs such as the stars move in circles in a special ether. Ptolemy and Aristotle were considered to be among some of the smartest men of their day, however, many of their mistaken beliefs influenced astronomy for 1400 years. Having a "higher education" certainly does not mean that your beliefs are correct.

Various religious beliefs have been debated by some very highly educated people for thousands of years. Other people have gone to war over their beliefs with the end result being that hundreds of thousands of people -- perhaps millions of people -- have died for their "righteous causes."

With regards to the original post, perhaps it's not surprising that some things like aiming systems in pool have proven to be quite controversial. Some well-educated people have evaluated certain aiming systems and found them to be deficient in some capacity. Other people have tried them and found them to be very useful. To each their own.
 
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nrhoades said:
What is the mechanism behind a person's dismissal of similar forms of the same discipline? Pool is a good example, where there are many who develop a skill set centered around one type of game, and reject others that are centered around another skill set. An obvious answer may be lack of maturity, but that seems to vague, and probably a partial miss.

This doesn't apply only to pool. A more baffling example is rock climbing, where there is even less direct competition between people. The flamers are terrible, and harshly dismantle, say, trad. climbing if they're a boulderer. They're very quick to poke fun at newer climbers, are arrogant, and feel that their talent in scaling rocks identifies them as modern day prophets. I've climbed for years and have seen much of this.

Then again, maybe it is maturity a little bit. I've also golfed for years. Every senior golfer I've played with was absolutely delightful, and very humble. But in pool, many many older people simply won't have their idea of tradition treaded upon with different objectives in the same sport.

And for god sakes, for the amount of work some of the most contributing members of our society put into their field, their return is barely a mark in all of human knowledge.

"Link: What is a PhD"


I can only think that the people who close their mind use their achievements as a measure of self-worth. If this is valid, then why are some obtuse towards acquiring humility?

Perhaps this is more of a psychological question, but what do you think?
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Do not confuse closed mindedness with personal preference. As example, I have played, listed in order of preference, 14.1, 8 ball, 9 ball, and 1 pocket.

The last time I played 1 pocket, I was talked into it by a regular 1 pocket player so he could show me how the game was played, give a few pointers to me. He did the standard 1 -pocket break so, we did a few safety shots until he left me a bank and I put 5 balls in my pocket. He didn't say another word to me the whole game and started sending balls down table. After a 1 hour of the score being 5-2, my patience was at the end. The pace of the game is not for me. I know how to play it, can play it well, it just not my kinda a game.

I do understand why some people like it and the others ones cause the rules provide different types pf play. Just like there are people. I like to shoot shots and run balls with a little chess thrown in, hence, my preference for 14.1 and 8 ball.

There really isn't a different skill set needed for each but a through understanding of the rules of each game. I mean a stop shot is a stop shot, and bank a bank and so on in any of the games.

What you are really talking about is bullying, being made fun of or looked down upon because of your personal choices. Call it for what it is.

Oh, one can go to college and not have a college level education and one can never go to college and have more than a college education, ask Bill Gates.

In this day of the internet, the old school thinking of having to go to college to get a education is outdated. I mean in college, they still use books. Why do you need a book and a teacher when the info is in the book?

What is not being thought is how to learn, how to think for yourself. To formulate the right question in order to get the answer.

Is it education or indoctrination into a set way of thinking that college really does? A degree does not make one a engineer, but gets one ready to learn how to become one in the real world. I've yet to see a programmer, engineer that did not use books to do their job. It wasn't all in their head and some of what they were designing was taught to them in college.

When access to all the books and information were limited, there was a needed for going to college causes that where the knowledge was. That is no longer a true statement.

Closed minded is thinking one needs to have gone to college in order to have an intellectual discussion.
 
nrhoades said:
What is the mechanism behind a person's dismissal of similar forms of the same discipline?
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Heck I even see this in medicine.

The PhD link is funny, and very true. That is a situation that evolved.

In the time of Newton for example it is thought that it was possible for a man to know all of the wealth of human knowledge. That is simply no longer possible.

The kind of behavior you are indicating is in part a matter of maturity, but I am afraid it is also partly human nature.
 
I believe in what I believe in that for a belief to have meaning and importance I must have convinction in the belief. Otherwise my belief is not a belief and therefore mearly a thought.

Or so I believe......I think.
 
If I dont try every single method of shooting pool I hear about, I dont think that makes me closed minded. Its like a big UFC match, we all get the job done in different ways. I have my discipline, and you have yours. Now and then I might incorporate something new to my repertoire, but I try to maintain my own style.
 
duckie said:
Do not confuse closed mindedness with personal preference. As example, I have played, listed in order of preference, 14.1, 8 ball, 9 ball, and 1 pocket.

The last time I played 1 pocket, I was talked into it by a regular 1 pocket player so he could show me how the game was played, give a few pointers to me. He did the standard 1 -pocket break so, we did a few safety shots until he left me a bank and I put 5 balls in my pocket. He didn't say another word to me the whole game and started sending balls down table. After a 1 hour of the score being 5-2, my patience was at the end. The pace of the game is not for me. I know how to play it, can play it well, it just not my kinda a game.

I do understand why some people like it and the others ones cause the rules provide different types pf play. Just like there are people. I like to shoot shots and run balls with a little chess thrown in, hence, my preference for 14.1 and 8 ball.

There really isn't a different skill set needed for each but a through understanding of the rules of each game. I mean a stop shot is a stop shot, and bank a bank and so on in any of the games.

What you are really talking about is bullying, being made fun of or looked down upon because of your personal choices. Call it for what it is.

Oh, one can go to college and not have a college level education and one can never go to college and have more than a college education, ask Bill Gates.

In this day of the internet, the old school thinking of having to go to college to get a education is outdated. I mean in college, they still use books. Why do you need a book and a teacher when the info is in the book?

What is not being thought is how to learn, how to think for yourself. To formulate the right question in order to get the answer.

Is it education or indoctrination into a set way of thinking that college really does? A degree does not make one a engineer, but gets one ready to learn how to become one in the real world. I've yet to see a programmer, engineer that did not use books to do their job. It wasn't all in their head and some of what they were designing was taught to them in college.

When access to all the books and information were limited, there was a needed for going to college causes that where the knowledge was. That is no longer a true statement.

Closed minded is thinking one needs to have gone to college in order to have an intellectual discussion.
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Good points. "College" can be a metaphor for any liberal community. Thesis work does teach you how to think for yourself; its a great vehicle for it. Any similar type of work will yield good results. What it does do is act as a "whip"; it introduces consequences if you don't do your work and helps you commit to teaching yourself how to learn, as you mentioned.
 
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