whats the rule ?

[lorider]

OK then, what if there is a ball near the pocket, you have about a half pocket to shoot in, while going in you brush the other ball, is that also a miss since in your head you did not mean to hit the ball even though you knew you had a 50% chance of hitting it and even then you had a 90% chance of making the shot anyway if you did?

That is why it's way simpler to just call the pocket and not every method it can take to get there.

How about when you play a hit off the rail into that ball to pocket another one but misjudge and it goes clean in. Is that a miss again? Because you called off a rail and off a ball but it went clean?

This is exactly what those stupid bar rules are. You can't say "well you need to call it clean or exactly what it hits or a miss" and then say "well but not with those bar rules" in the same breath.

I've lost with called shot 9 ball when someone missed the shot but still made the 9 in the called pocket, but at least it was a very random chance and not the way many players play with the "spray and pray" play style by hitting every shot at break speed hoping if they miss something else will go in.

What if you miscue but the ball you hit still goes in? Or you wanted to draw but only got a stop shot? All those shots did not go as intended are they all misses now?

again...i stated in my previous post...i was not refering to slop in the sense of bar rules where you can every inch of the path of the cue ball and the object ball. and no where did i refer to a " missed " shot.

i do agree with you that it is much simpler to simply call pocket vs call shot....it avoids arguments such as you encounter in bars over stupid crap....in my opinion of course.

in your above scenarios i have no problem with a shot....such as intending to go clean vs skimming against another ball that is slightly blocking the pocket in league . in the same sense i have no problem with a ball touching the tip of a rail on the way in a pocket in bar rules.

in the scenario i described where you attempt to combo the 3 into the 7 ...pocketing the 7...and the 3 misses the 7 but the cue ball rolls forward knocking the 7 into the called pocket. well....in my opinion that was a fluke. and as such...in my opinion flukes are slop shots...i dont know what you call flukes though.

 

[hang-the-9]

again...i stated in my previous post...i was not refering to slop in the sense of bar rules where you can every inch of the path of the cue ball and the object ball. and no where did i refer to a " missed " shot.

i do agree with you that it is much simpler to simply call pocket vs call shot....it avoids arguments such as you encounter in bars over stupid crap....in my opinion of course.

in your above scenarios i have no problem with a shot....such as intending to go clean vs skimming against another ball that is slightly blocking the pocket in league . in the same sense i have no problem with a ball touching the tip of a rail on the way in a pocket in bar rules.

in the scenario i described where you attempt to combo the 3 into the 7 ...pocketing the 7...and the 3 misses the 7 but the cue ball rolls forward knocking the 7 into the called pocket. well....in my opinion that was a fluke. and as such...in my opinion flukes are slop shots...i dont know what you call flukes though.

Issue is that when you play called shot (really called pocket since only bar players that don't know rules want to call every single thing that happens to a ball), those flukes that happen to make a ball in the right pocket by accident still count as a "called shot".

It may not be a "good" shot or exactly what you wanted, but it's a called shot into the pocket. It would not count as slop like where you don't call anything and just hope a ball goes in somewhere.

I'm not disagreeing at all that when you mess up a shot and the ball still goes in the right pocket it was a good shot, but it was a legal shot by the rules in the right pocket.

That scenario you are talking about is exactly what I posted before, lately in the "luckiest shot against you" thread that CJ started. A guy was shooting a combo on the 9, missed the 9 with the ball but the ball went off the rail, kicked the 9 up table a bit in the path of the cueball and the cueball made the 9 in the pocket he called.

I've also seen a shot in called 9 ball or 10 ball where the guy tried to spin in the game winner that was maybe 2 inches on the rail from a pocket, totally whiffed on the hit, but the cueball went 3 rails and cut the ball in the right pocket anyway. This was live on a stream a while ago and the people in chat went nuts LOL It went not only from a miss but ball in hand, to a winning shot.

BUT.. you can't say "called pocket only if you don't mess up what you were trying to do really badly" and then put in exceptions like "It does not count unless another ball is withing 3.24 inches of the pocket and the object ball only hits 1/6th of it before falling in the pocket, otherwise it's a miss and the ball gets spotted". Slop by accidentally making the correct ball in the correct pocket is not slop where you can make any ball in any pocket without indicating either on.

 

[Billiardsfan]

To answer the OP's original question, the OFFICIAL response from the APA at the national level is as that the ball that was pocketed stays pocketed, the accidentally moved ball gets placed back to it's original spot (or as close to as possible) and the shooter continues to shoot.

This is just for the APA as the OP was playing APA when this occurred. I do not necessarily agree with or disagree with this ruling, but that is what they decided.

LeRoy

 

[stumpie71]

To answer the OP's original question, the OFFICIAL response from the APA at the national level is as that the ball that was pocketed stays pocketed, the accidentally moved ball gets placed back to it's original spot (or as close to as possible) and the shooter continues to shoot.

This is just for the APA as the OP was playing APA when this occurred. I do not necessarily agree with or disagree with this ruling, but that is what they decided.

LeRoy

That is correct. It was in the rule you posted above exception, if an accidentally moved ball(s) comes into contact with the cb creating a foul. Also below that statement in the rule book it states that accidentally moved ball(s) are not fouls, unless of course something comes into contact with the cb.

Yes Lorider posted this instance was APA play and league format.

I too have no feelings either way on this rule. Regardless of the league or tournament I just play by the rules that are being used. If I do not agree with the rules then I will not participate.

 

[lorider]

That is correct. It was in the rule you posted under exception, if an accidentally moved ball(s) comes into contact with the cb creating a foul. Also below that statement in the rule book it states that accidentally moved ball(s) are not fouls, unless of course something comes into contact with the cb.

Yes Lorider posted this instance was APA play and league format.

I too have no feelings either way on this rule. Regardless of the league or tournament I just play by the rules that are being used. If I do not agree with the rules then I will not participate.

i agree with every thing in your post completely.

i have played apa ...bcapl ..and napa. and have enjoyed them all. i have encountered players in all of those leagues that have been a member of them longer than i have yet do not know the rules as well as i or know the rules and complain they dont like them yet continue to play in said league any way. it puzzles the heck out of me that people voluntarily play under rules they dont like and then complain about it.

 

[alstl]

APA rules?

1. Look around to see if anybody saw what happened.

2. If anybody saw it, determine whether they are drunk.

3. If they are drunk accuse them of seeing things and maybe they will back down.

4. If they insist on seeing you foul, determine whether you can kick their ass.

5. If you can kick their ass, tell them you want to step outside.

6. If you can't kick their ass, give them ball in hand.

 

[lorider]

APA rules?

1. Look around to see if anybody saw what happened.

2. If anybody saw it, determine whether they are drunk.

3. If they are drunk accuse them of seeing things and maybe they will back down.

4. If they insist on seeing you foul, determine whether you can kick their ass.

5. If you can kick their ass, tell them you want to step outside.

6. If you can't kick their ass, give them ball in hand.

lmao !:thumbup:

most of those rules apply to just about any competitive environment from pop warner football on up.

 

[Celophanewrap]

APA rules?

1. Look around to see if anybody saw what happened.

2. If anybody saw it, determine whether they are drunk.

3. If they are drunk accuse them of seeing things and maybe they will back down.

4. If they insist on seeing you foul, determine whether you can kick their ass.

5. If you can kick their ass, tell them you want to step outside.

6. If you can't kick their ass, give them ball in hand.

To my eternal shame (as an APA player) although it's not actually published anywhere, this post by ALSTL seems to be the most accurate. That is, "if you don't get caught, it ain't illegal".
However according to the book the path of the cue ball is paramount. If the ball you accidentally moved with your hand, stick, or whatever, doesn't interrupt the path of the cue ball there is no foul. In a similar situation though the accidentally moved ball did contact another moving ball that was part of the shot, this was called a foul.
I realize that in what most of you all would consider real pool any accidental movement of another ball would be considered a foul, try to remember that we're talking about the APA and at times those rules can be slightly different from BCAPL or WPA or other such more normal rules.

 

[lorider]

To my eternal shame (as an APA player) although it's not actually published anywhere, this post by ALSTL seems to be the most accurate. That is, "if you don't get caught, it ain't illegal".
However according to the book the path of the cue ball is paramount. If the ball you accidentally moved with your hand, stick, or whatever, doesn't interrupt the path of the cue ball there is no foul. In a similar situation though the accidentally moved ball did contact another moving ball that was part of the shot, this was called a foul.
I realize that in what most of you all would consider real pool any accidental movement of another ball would be considered a foul, try to remember that we're talking about the APA and at times those rules can be slightly different from BCAPL or WPA or other such more normal rules.

dont get me wrong....i have no problem with fellow league players drinking and enjoying theirselves while playing pool. if it gets to the point where they get loud...obnoxious...or disrupt the flow of the game i will write up a report .

i have done it on only 2 occasions during the last 4 years of playing apa. those 2 individuals no longer play apa. it was not based on just my report...other people reported the same players also.

the way i see it is...if any league out there has drunks in it that make your experience a negative one... you only have your selves to blame. sure one person may complain to the lo and it seems like nothing is ever done. maybe he just thought it was an isolated incident or these 2 people dont like each other.

ifhe had several complaints about a certain individual he would realize he has a problem and he had to make a decision about it. not saying this is what my lo does but it seems like how things has gone down a few times he has a 3 striles and your out policy.

 

[tatcat2000]

do you mean to say ...a bcapl member once knowingly misled another member on a rule during nationals and then said member called foul ? according to most members of this forum...only apa members would stoop to such shenanigans to win a match. :grin:

And any members that believe that would be so sadly mistaken.

The very first day of the 2013 tournament a scotch doubles team got bounced for a "player" impersonating another person.

EVERY league has it's shady characters.