What's the ruling on this?

Wheeljack

Wheeljack

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Silver Member
So, I'm practicing last night and some folks were playing 8-ball on the table beside me and Player A shoots at a stripe ball (and misses) and in the process the cue ball goes to the corner pocket where another stripe ball (the 10 ball) is resting in the pocket. The cue ball rolls into the pocket while also starting to take the 10 ball in the pocket with it, but both balls end up resting on each other in the pocket. Both balls are angled slightly into the mouth of the pocket, both balls are still touching the table, neither ball is falling.

So, what is the call on that? Is it technically a scratch or are the balls just in limbo? The incoming player (shooting at solids) can't make a legal hit and Player A did not pocket a ball so her turn is over.

League play in our area is APA, but I would be interested in hearing what the ruling would be in any format.

Thanks in advance for your time-

J.
 
If i understand you post correctly, then you have to shoot at your solid or play safe.You could also take a foul.
 
Wheeljack said:
So, I'm practicing last night and some folks were playing 8-ball on the table beside me and Player A shoots at a stripe ball (and misses) and in the process the cue ball goes to the corner pocket where another stripe ball (the 10 ball) is resting in the pocket. The cue ball rolls into the pocket while also starting to take the 10 ball in the pocket with it, but both balls end up resting on each other in the pocket. Both balls are angled slightly into the mouth of the pocket, both balls are still touching the table, neither ball is falling.

So, what is the call on that? Is it technically a scratch or are the balls just in limbo? The incoming player (shooting at solids) can't make a legal hit and Player A did not pocket a ball so her turn is over.

League play in our area is APA, but I would be interested in hearing what the ruling would be in any format.

Thanks in advance for your time-

J.
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I think the rule is if you look straight down and the balls are more than 1/2 way in the pocket, they are both considered down. Which would mean it is a scratch if one is the cue ball. Another way to look at it is if you were able to lift one of the balls straight up without disturbing the other and it would fall in the pocket, it is considered pocketed. If they are simply jammed into the pocket and they are still on the table, you would play it from there.

I await others comments, but that is my understanding.

Dave
 
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I read this several times and still don't understand. Are you saying that the 10 ball is on top of the cue? Or are they wedged together somehow?? And how are they both still touching the table??:rolleyes::confused:
 
flash5153 said:
I read this several times and still don't understand. Are you saying that the 10 ball is on top of the cue? Or are they wedged together somehow?? And how are they both still touching the table??:rolleyes::confused:
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They were wedged together in the pocket, both still touching the table, but angled slightly down forward into the pocket.

@12squared: Your suggestion makes since. Neither of the balls could stay up if on their own so I guess it is a scratch.

My opinion at the time was to for the incoming player to take the foul. Then the original player would shoot or take a foul. I didn't know if APA had a 'stalemate' option, but that is what I would offer up.

Thanks for the input everyone-

J.
 
Both balls are considered "pocketed". 10-ball stays down and it's BIH for the incoming player.

randyg
 
If both balls are still resting on the table top,,Im not so sure it would be BIH for incoming player. Contact was made with OB and a rail was hit. Since it was just practicing,,who cares?? lol Take a picture and rack em!!
But it is amazing they come to a rest in this position. Good Post.
 
randyg said:
Both balls are considered "pocketed". 10-ball stays down and it's BIH for the incoming player.

randyg
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Randy is entirely, utterly, totally, absolutely, wholly, completely, positively, 100% correct. (Just trying out my new thesaurus to see how it works. :D)
 
just had this issue two weeks ago. both balls are dropped. since its the cueball its ball in hand. :D
 
That's the way I understood it to be... Glad to see I "thought" correctly. (For a change! :p )
 
From the BCAPL rule book

http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook.aspx
1.47 Jawed Balls
If balls are wedged in the mouth of a pocket and any of those balls are suspended above the bed of the table, the referee will inspect the balls and judge whether, if they were free to fall directly downward, the balls would come to rest on the bed of the table or in the pocket. The referee will then place the balls in the positions as judged and play will continue.
Click to expand...
 
"angled slightly down forward into the pocket"

This to me means that the balls were actually lower than the plane of the table. Actually leaning into the pocket, "over the edge", so to speak.

That part of your post is the most important, imo. It proves that they both would of fallen individual if in that position. Being jammed up against another ball to hold it from falling in doesn't count, it's still considered a pocketed ball. I used to play in a bar with a real piece of junk table that had a section of the pocket that stuck out into the space of the pocket. If you slow rolled a ball perfectly, it would actually stop falling into the pocket and be suspended in mid air. I had an argument with a guy who told me it didn't count as it didn't finish falling in ... brought in a roll of duct tape next time I played there. :p
 
PaulieB said:
I used to play in a bar with a real piece of junk table that had a section of the pocket that stuck out into the space of the pocket. If you slow rolled a ball perfectly, it would actually stop falling into the pocket and be suspended in mid air. I had an argument with a guy who told me it didn't count as it didn't finish falling in ... brought in a roll of duct tape next time I played there. :p
Click to expand...

Nuthin' worse than a d*ckhead in a bar using "bar rules" :(!!!

Maniac
 
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