What's your opinion?

bsmutz

Fearlessly Happy
Silver Member
BCA league ended and last night was payouts. After we got our money, those that wanted to paid $5 to play in a blind draw Scotch Doubles tournament where the lowest point scorers for the session were matched with the highest point scorers with a mix of Masters and Open players. One of my teammates got paired with a guy who hadn't played in this session, but must have been a friend of the league rep that was running the league and played like a Master. We were playing 9 ball against them. The new guy broke and my teammate didn't have a shot on the one ball. He did a pushout, but didn't indicate beforehand that he intended to. I called him on it, without saying anything about a foul. I just said, "You didn't call a pushout." The new guy jumps up and tells me to take ball in hand. My teammate was protesting that it was fairly obvious that it was a pushout and didn't feel that he had to call it. I was willing to go either way, but the new guy insisted I take ball in hand, so I did. We ran out and I have no doubt that we would have in any case as the pushout left me with an easy cut shot and plenty of room for shape on the 2. When we sank the last ball, the new guy says, "Pretty easy to run out with ball in hand, isn't it?" I shrugged it off.

Later on, he starts in saying we must be two A players and we're going to win the whole thing. Then he starts saying that my actions constituted bad sportsmanship. He keeps up with the snide comments during the rest of the race to 3. At one point, my teammate miscued and no balls hit the rail. So before taking ball in hand, I asked the new guy what the rule is for that. He says, "You know the rule for the pushout, but you don't know this rule?" and starts explaining the rule. I cut him off and said that I knew the rule. I asked if it would be unsportsmanlike to apply the rule in this situation in an attempt to get him to realize that following the rules is part of the game. He didn't get it and continued to be belligerent towards me. He even went to the league rep and was told that the rule says a person must indicate to his opponents beforehand if he is going to push out. After we were done and shook hands, he starts saying how he has played in all these tournaments and this is the most unsportsmanlike act he has ever seen (he looked to be in his mid 20s). He just kept on and on sniveling about it, then asks me if I play for money, lol. At that point I told him to f*** off. So he went back to bi***ing to the rep.

I understand that we play 8 ball and don't call every shot, etc., but he was the one who insisted I take ball in hand. Who do you think was being unsportsmanlike (taking into consideration the one sided account)?
 
Honestly, I had a hard time following your story. I tried, but your use of pronouns were often confusing. I think I followed the gist of the story and the bottom line is that before you pushout you gotta indicate it and clearly. I don't think it's quite the same as not calling an obvious pocket.

I always call my 'push' outloud AND make sure that my opponent has aknowledged that I've said 'push'.
 
I have played many times where an obvious pushout is not called and it would in my eyes be unsportsmanlike to try and take advantage of an obvious situation..... However not calling it does introduce unsportsmanship from the opposite side of the fence... Lets say I got distracted for a second and my opponent pushed.... Lets say it was a bad push and left the cueball hooked.. I see the opponent sit down and I realize it is my turn... When I ask him if it was a foul? He could tell me no.... I didn't ask if he pushed.... Am I sure he will volunteer that info.....

I will usual let the first one go and tell em to call the rest of them if it's obvious and they didn't call anything..... Or you walk up and act like you are taking BIH... They will be sure to call the rest of them....
 
It is kinda ticky tack to call a foul on an obvious pushout. If he made an attempt to hit the one and then tried to call a push I understand. But if he just rolled out and you realized what he was doing you probably shoulda kept quiet. Calling it at that point is a little bit of a shark to get in the opponents head.

The other guy was obviously an asshole. But the whole thing could have been avoided.
 
Bill...The rules are clear. You MUST call a push. Either play by the rules...or don't...there's no half way, imo. The youngster acted like a pr*ck. You did the right thing. Even the TD told him he was wrong.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

BCA league ended and last night was payouts. After we got our money, those that wanted to paid $5 to play in a blind draw Scotch Doubles tournament where the lowest point scorers for the session were matched with the highest point scorers with a mix of Masters and Open players. One of my teammates got paired with a guy who hadn't played in this session, but must have been a friend of the league rep that was running the league and played like a Master. We were playing 9 ball against them. The new guy broke and my teammate didn't have a shot on the one ball. He did a pushout, but didn't indicate beforehand that he intended to. I called him on it, without saying anything about a foul. I just said, "You didn't call a pushout." The new guy jumps up and tells me to take ball in hand. My teammate was protesting that it was fairly obvious that it was a pushout and didn't feel that he had to call it. I was willing to go either way, but the new guy insisted I take ball in hand, so I did. We ran out and I have no doubt that we would have in any case as the pushout left me with an easy cut shot and plenty of room for shape on the 2. When we sank the last ball, the new guy says, "Pretty easy to run out with ball in hand, isn't it?" I shrugged it off.

Later on, he starts in saying we must be two A players and we're going to win the whole thing. Then he starts saying that my actions constituted bad sportsmanship. He keeps up with the snide comments during the rest of the race to 3. At one point, my teammate miscued and no balls hit the rail. So before taking ball in hand, I asked the new guy what the rule is for that. He says, "You know the rule for the pushout, but you don't know this rule?" and starts explaining the rule. I cut him off and said that I knew the rule. I asked if it would be unsportsmanlike to apply the rule in this situation in an attempt to get him to realize that following the rules is part of the game. He didn't get it and continued to be belligerent towards me. He even went to the league rep and was told that the rule says a person must indicate to his opponents beforehand if he is going to push out. After we were done and shook hands, he starts saying how he has played in all these tournaments and this is the most unsportsmanlike act he has ever seen (he looked to be in his mid 20s). He just kept on and on sniveling about it, then asks me if I play for money, lol. At that point I told him to f*** off. So he went back to bi***ing to the rep.

I understand that we play 8 ball and don't call every shot, etc., but he was the one who insisted I take ball in hand. Who do you think was being unsportsmanlike (taking into consideration the one sided account)?
 
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Every variation of the push out rule I have read specifically says you must announce a push out before doing so. If he forgot that rule it is his fault, not yours. Unsportsmanship conduct would be something like sharking him during his shot (i.e. talking, making noise).

Look at it this way, it is not your responsibility to make sure you opponent follows the rules (i.e. not calling push out, shooting out of order). If he fails to do so that is his fault and he should only blame himself.
 
It is kinda ticky tack to call a foul on an obvious pushout. If he made an attempt to hit the one and then tried to call a push I understand. But if he just rolled out and you realized what he was doing you probably shoulda kept quiet. Calling it at that point is a little bit of a shark to get in the opponents head.

The other guy was obviously an asshole. But the whole thing could have been avoided.



Unfortunately they were playing in a tournament. You might get away with not calling a push out when playing with some friends but if you commit a foul be prepared to give up the BIH.
 
Unfortunately that's the rules that you have to call even the most obvious of shots, or it's no good or ball in hand depending on situation. I've played both apa and bca before and lost because I either didn't call a pocket that was dead straight in obvious, and even went so far as to loose once in apa because I did call a pocket but didn't physically mark it with something.

In APA you actually have to go -stick something next to the pocket- you're making the 8-ball in, which they call marking your pocket.

Calling it, pointing to it, showing everyone what you're going for and being obvious as all hell isn't enough you have to stick a troll doll or something stupid next to the damn pocket.

The idiot you played was either trying to shark you or set you up to be sharked with a money game. He was obviously looking for a reaction. And there isn't anything more unsportsmanlike than what you describe other than having some ahole like that walking around your table right in front of you and standing in front of and hovering over every single shot you make.
 
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Even most pro tournaments I attend if the pushout is obvious it is usually not called. Even in APA to call a foul on something as dumb as not marking a pocket is against the spirit of the rule. You guys have to look at the spirit of the rule and not the black and white letter of the rule. The game is a lot funner when you don't sit there and play gotcha.
 
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