In his DVD, Stan demonstrates the use of CTE/Pro1 with a behind-the-back shot, and the balls are even a little more off the rail than for your proposed shot.
It's in Chapter 19 at approximately 1:02:40.
Where are the eyes when the CTE "visual" is "obtained"?
- Thread starter Patrick Johnson
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In his DVD, Stan demonstrates the use of CTE/Pro1 with a behind-the-back shot, and the balls are even a little more off the rail than for your proposed shot.
It's in Chapter 19 at approximately 1:02:40.
Stan called it that yesterday.
I was a bit confused by "Aimpoint Line" myself but I assume you mean the secondary reference line (OB edge to A/B/C on Stans system) and not the ghost ball or shot line.
Before I discuss my approach, I want to be sure we have identified an understanding of "vision center" which has nothing to do with the CTE alignments themselves.
Set a CB and OB on the table a few diamonds apart, stand behind the shot and while in the upright position, line up as if you are going to shoot a half-ball hit. You are mentally drawing a line from the center of the CB to an outside edge of the OB. When you find the exact position for your eyes where this line looks "ON", you have found your vision center. If you'd like you can wiggle your head back and forth using PJ's half-the-distance formula to extrapolate your way to the center.
I want to point out "vision center" because the physical alignment can vary from person to person. We are lining up two eyeballs on one line that changes the convergence between our eyes the farther the line extends away from our face. 3D aficionados might call that a parallax view. So, depending on the given shot, your shot perception, eye dominance, etc. find what looks right to YOU.
Now we have identified "vision center", what I do with CTE is first find my "vision center" on the CTEL, then if necessary, I make a slight adjustment to the "vision center" of the secondary line. This is where I stop, and I believe this is the position that PJ is asking for in his poll.
This is how I do it and it works for me regardless of which system I'm implementing. I don't think this is how Stan teaches his system, and it would be best to ask him directly if you are specifically talking about CTE/Pro1.
Of course from this position, I then focus on the face of the cue ball, move my head/eyes straight in on the CB and slide the cue stick into a 1/2 ball (or 1/2 tip with pro1 CTE) offset, then pivot to center CB.
Before I discuss my approach, I want to be sure we have identified an understanding of "vision center" which has nothing to do with the CTE alignments themselves.
Set a CB and OB on the table a few diamonds apart, stand behind the shot and while in the upright position, line up as if you are going to shoot a half-ball hit. You are mentally drawing a line from the center of the CB to an outside edge of the OB. When you find the exact position for your eyes where this line looks "ON", you have found your vision center. If you'd like you can wiggle your head back and forth using PJ's half-the-distance formula to extrapolate your way to the center.
I want to point out "vision center" because the physical alignment can vary from person to person. We are lining up two eyeballs on one line that changes the convergence between our eyes the farther the line extends away from our face. 3D aficionados might call that a parallax view. So, depending on the given shot, your shot perception, eye dominance, etc. find what looks right to YOU.
Now we have identified "vision center", what I do with CTE is first find my "vision center" on the CTEL, then if necessary, I make a slight adjustment to the "vision center" of the secondary line. This is where I stop, and I believe this is the position that PJ is asking for in his poll.
This is how I do it and it works for me regardless of which system I'm implementing. I don't think this is how Stan teaches his system, and it would be best to ask him directly if you are specifically talking about CTE/Pro1.
Of course from this position, I then focus on the face of the cue ball, move my head/eyes straight in on the CB and slide the cue stick into a 1/2 ball (or 1/2 tip with pro1 CTE) offset, then pivot to center CB.
Can the vision center for a right eye dominant person be under his right eye and wouldn't that affect the secondary sight line when shooting cuts to the right or left? are the cut angles the same when sighting on the fractions right or left?
i am at a level where i cant just step into shot with no lines and no pivot. I explained this over a year ago that system will evolve to this, but not sure who else is there? i started using a cte system about 5 or so years ago, I would use just a ctel and a left or right half tip offset pivot like cte/pro1 and feel to make all shots. there's a lot of mixing and matching of the systems in these discussions, so it leads to a lot of different info. Guys that dont shoot cte/pro1 are not giving you there actual experiences with it, but just telling you how they think it is. I have done my best to separate it all and stop the miss leads and now no one likes me because they want to be known as AZ cte experts, very amusing to me lol
and for the record i did not vote and it shows how most are confused in the poll brainiack started. that is another thing stan has said so simply on here many a time and on the dvd.
Time i hit the gym again and drop the 30 pounds i gained since last summer! slow pitch time and its time to put the cues away and pull the bats out...good luck!
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That's why I put this in my first post:
There's no wiggling or "fidgeting" needed - those loaded words are just John Barton and the rest of the CTE Defense League's usual attempt to discredit the "enemy". You can do all the "halving" before you even get down on the shot, in a split second after some practice with it.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks for the explanation.
A followup question: if the end result is to have your vision center on the "aimpoint line", what purpose do you think is served by starting with it on the CTE line?
Stan has "answered" this question recently, but in a jargon-loaded, non-definitive way. I can't tell if he doesn't want to give away too much of the technique he sells or just doesn't realize how vague his description is (maybe some of both?).
Anyway, this poll isn't to get the official description (obviously, since a poll can't do that). It's to see how much variance there is in players' understanding of it.
pj
chgo
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pssst, he doesn't use cte/pro1, he uses 1/2 ball system he decided to rename himself. if he new cte/pro1 he would be using it. he is not spider who used that system for years before cte/pro1 came out.this is all karma coming back now for past disrespect and ignorance when i spoke the truth.
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That was meant to be a bit of tongue-in-cheek. You know, funny. Not defensive. By wiggling I meant move back and forth while halving. No matter, I'll avoid the sarcasm in future posts. Not trying to start wars here.
Starting on the CTEL helps avoid perception errors. If you prefer to use 90/90, it is basically a secondary reference line without the CTEL. It works just spiffy for many pivot shooters as well. Many of Hals original systems did not use a secondary line, only CTEL, and you were just told "poke your head outside". As if you wanted more vagueness
Just an FYI, all of this information is spelled out in my post about pivot aiming, and much of it carries across to all pivot aiming systems. And for the record, I do know how to use CTE/Pro1 and 90/90 quite proficiently, for those that seem to think otherwise.
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I saw this coming. Champ has decided to take pot-shots at me for some reasons only known to him. Let me be very clear for you: I do use CTE/PRO1. I can execute any of them, they all come from the same core system. And I didn't rename the 1/2 ball system, the blog post title was renamed after some discussions with Dave, Ron and Stan. The title was misleading is all.
Mohrt,
Shouldn't the vision center be between both eyes so that the edges of the CB can be focused on the same corresponding OB fractions?
If you look at the OB center with the CB center, shouldn't the right eye be focused on the right side of the OB and the left eye on the left side of the OB - at the same respective fraction?
Thanks.
Shouldn't the vision center be between both eyes so that the edges of the CB can be focused on the same corresponding OB fractions?
If you look at the OB center with the CB center, shouldn't the right eye be focused on the right side of the OB and the left eye on the left side of the OB - at the same respective fraction?
Thanks.
I think ones perception of what the middle is will determine what "looks" like the middle. For instance I am very strong left-eye dominant, so straddling a line of centers directly between my eyes won't look correct.
Thanks,
Then your perception of the secondary aim line is not symmetrical when sighting from the right and left side of the CB? Thus the cut angles will not be the same when the edge of the CB is aimed at the corresponding fractions on the OB?
Champ I see you have since added more to your post, I'll quote it:
Now could you please spell out what disrespect I sent your way? Actually, can you tell me where I have done any kind of name-calling or disrespect to ANYONE on this forum, whether I agree with them or otherwise? I think not. I don't think you can say the same for yourself. As for ignorance, well what's that mean? You asked me a question and I didn't respond? What truth do you speak of? Does that mean I told lies?
Now could you please spell out what disrespect I sent your way? Actually, can you tell me where I have done any kind of name-calling or disrespect to ANYONE on this forum, whether I agree with them or otherwise? I think not. I don't think you can say the same for yourself. As for ignorance, well what's that mean? You asked me a question and I didn't respond? What truth do you speak of? Does that mean I told lies?
I'm pretty certain that I site any and all lines straight down my left eye. I could probably even put a patch over my right eye and still shoot pool pretty decent. Where my right eye really comes into play is extreme right cuts, the edge-to-edge ones, and then I just site the edges with my right eye. I'll pat Gene on the back for that one.
Thanks,
That said, CTE/Pro1 is percieved and practiced differently by different practioners?
I'm pretty sure Stan teaches one way, as prescribed on the DVD. "visual intelligence" would include all the gritty details, but you don't really need to sweat them. Just take the system to the table go through the motions and it comes to you, however your physical differences may take you there.
I concur, though I didn't buy the DVD for I do well with double distance aiming. I am fascinated with the different applications of CTE aiming.
Thanks for your civil and cogent replies.:thumbup:
As I recall the polling options, 4 of the choices could be successfully used by an experienced CTE PRO ONE player. And any of those 4 options would still place the eyes at a 1/2 tip offset from the shot line.
Stan
Stan