Where did the action go? (Opinions wanted)

I am not sure what time frames you are looking to compare but here is my thoughts.

Coming out of the WWII americans had made a little money. Even farmers then were making money. There was alot of cash around and people still remembered tough times. Most would have thought that would make them save money but it did not. Many just wanted to have some fun.
During the fiftys america hit another expansion boom and alot of people
made money and spent it loosely. Entertainment options were still
low. The pool room could offer an escape.
Even the old road hustlers have said that everything was in cycles and most can pick out small gaps of time when action was good and when it was not.
Expenses, not only for the road player, have went sky high with gas, food and rent at all time highs. There are still some professions that made roughly the same now as they did in the early 70s.

Pool movies have really played a part as well as gambling movies in general.
The Hustler and then the Color of Money had big effects on the pool world.
I was around for the COM boom and normal rooms got flooded with players and their hours went to damn near 24/7.
Gambling breeds gambling and most of the time a room needs a few guys to get it going. Most rooms have lost those guys.
Women have become more prominent in the home as well. Men before mostly ruled the home and spent their money how they felt. Its not the same today.
Not only have casinos hurt but entertainment in general. Right now theres
tons of fun and cool things to do. Sea-Doos, boats, skydiving, amusement parks, golf, movies, plays, concerts, bars and much more are way more prevalient than even 20 years ago and are ten fold greater than
30+ years ago. TV is better and the computer/internet usage is not even comparable.
My father used to go to the movies with a quarter to a dollar depending on
the time. Now its 7-10 dollars just to get in and then another 7 or so for
a popcorn and beverage. Movies are better and people flock there for
their entertainment and escape.

Also I think the age of information killed alot of it. Guys know other pool players and even when players are b-c level players they are known or a line can be gotten. In the old days the locals all had a local champion and
they were willing to put their money up on him. A road player merely had to lay it down enough to keep the guy going and clean up. The locals were entertained and where happy to back their local guy. The only info that got out was among the road guys and big bettors.
In todays world there are 10 times the amount of very good players as there was then. The fish in todays world started getting hit even before they could regroup and reload. Even inside the local pool room there are more players.
I do believe that there is a little resurgence going on right now in gambling.
The reason could be more exposure or that there are a few people out there making money and the means of entertainment have gotten old. Pool is now a little more in the spot light. If the IPT kicks off and gets major exposure I think we could see new faces and some old ones resurface into the pool world. 8 ball would most likely be the game and it would almost be a "new" game as 9 ball was back in the day. 8 ball seems easier to the average joe and might be more appealing.

I grew up around Junior Goff and his stories about gambling and hustling
always had the same theme. They always had a time line. In parts
the road players really had alot of action and other times they almost
dried up. Its probably the same now but with all the other entertainment
and gambling choices there are just too many avenues for the sucker.
 
Ritchie Florence

jrhendy said:
I have played and gambled at pool since the late 50's. I became a working stiff in 1961(Thanks to Ritchie Florence) and have worked ever since, but I used to make it to the pool room several times a week and always matched up doing something. I would love to find a room where I could match up a fair game, even though my game has gone downhill. I am a fairly loose gambler and the closest pool room to me is Hard Times in Sacramento with the best equipment you could find. I could match up with a little weight with a couple of local champions, but you are not only taking a tough game, you are giving them odds on the $$ because if you lose, your $$ is going to the card room or casino. The alternative to that is to play sets for high dollars, and that is not for me either. I am a $50/$100 a game one pocket player. The last good player I played for $50 a game was busted after two games. In the old days the $$ floated around the room and you had a chance to win it back. Today you have to be a nut hunter because almost everybody else is. I can't play for fun, so I play once a month or so in a tournament. I'm sure there are lots of old war horses like me out there who would be good action if we could get some action back in return. But we have been doing this a long time and you just can't give your $$ away to someone you don't have a chance getting it back from. Losing your $$ is bad. Losing your $$ and feeling stupid is worse. Now the horses are getting my gambling action. You can play them on the computer. Wait a minute, I'm just like the guys I'm knocking. But the horses don't pull up, and neither do the card rooms or the casinos. John Henderson


Did Ritchie Bust you pretty good, or where you friends and he gave you a job? :D

Mack
 
Tiger woods

iacas said:
By all accounts, he doesn't really gamble. He'll gamble a few bucks against a playing partner in practice rounds or against pals like Jordan, etc., but in a casino, no, no gambling. He gets his thrills doing other things like Scuba Diving. Plus, if you've seen his wife, you can hardly imagine wanting to leave her to do something as lame as gamble in a casino!

Phil Mickelson, on the other hand, now THERE was/is a gambler. Reportedly his $10M contract (approx.) with Callaway was largely to pay off gambling debt.

When i was a senior in high school, tiger was a senior in college. I watched him play when he played the university of oregon team. So long story short, last few holes he is playing Ted Snavely #1 for UofO golf team. Me being the guy always sweating action, stayed with them when it started to rain and get fairly dark. Ther was only 2 other people besides me watching, Ted makes a bet on the second to last hole at the Eugene country club, that he comes in one stroke under tiger on this hole. Im thinking ted has this one being its his home course. They bet $20 bucks, and Tiger drives into the Sand mid fairway, then his second shot in the rain and wet sand sticks it with in a foot, with his 2 iron about 190 yards, it was really impressive. Im not sure if he bets more now that he is making a little more money then in college. :eek:

Mack
 
stolz2 said:
When i was a senior in high school, tiger was a senior in college.
Fact check: Tiger left Stanford after two years to turn professional.

stolz2 said:
I'm not sure if he bets more now that he is making a little more money then in college. :eek:
He plays for a few bucks. It's mostly a dinner or a meal. They don't carry a few thousand dollars on them, so it's not as large a sum as you might think.
 
OldHasBeen said:
A lot of pool players equate $ won in a casino with $ won on a pool table.
That's sick and unrealistic. Pool is a developed skill where it is possible to get the best of it OR close enough to out run the difference for the right reasons.
The very best odds a casino gives is 51/49 the worst of it and or the complete luck of seeing the river card. You always hear of the converted pool players making a fortune at poker. You seldom hear of the mass majority gone broke trying.
I've seen so many good pool players/gamblers go completely busted in the casino because the action was faster. These same pool players used to sit and match up for hours in the poolroom.
Personally - Everything I have ever done On The Road - Was a hustle. But at home, I did & do play as cheap as $5 9ball and 10/20$ OP - when there is nothing better to do.
I just wonder how $ Tiger Woods blows in casinos.

TY & GL, OHB


I hear ya OHB, One of My pool teachers Dave Marks AKA (pineapple) was one of the best 9ballers in PA.(below $40 a rack). He loved going to the casinos. I would close the pool room at midnight or so, then drive him to AC while he slept. He'd play craps while I observed, and he got everything compt. I'd lend him $$ when He got down, and he paid me 10 points both ways, so it was cool. I am not much for chucking money at the casino, cause I really never liked it, or understood it like pool.

Now He is a dealer on one of the reservations in Arizona, or someplace. If anyone ever sees him, tell him Gerry sais he's got the 7 for life!:D

Gerry
 
Ritchie Florence

stolz2 said:
Did Ritchie Bust you pretty good, or where you friends and he gave you a job? :D

Mack
I had him stuck 18 games of three redball snooker for $10 a game. I started with $20. We jacked the bet to $20, I started to dog it and he won 10 games back. It bothered me so bad I went out and got a job. Years later we started playing again at Hard Times in Bellflower. I told him he was the best friend I ever had & he didn't even know it, cause he made me go to work. John Henderson
 
I've got lots of action at my tourney in Kernersville NC. Just have problems getting the game and the spot right. Will be lots of action this weekend at our tourney. Lots of players with big bank rolls.
 
Complex equation to figure out.

To a certain extent, there are a lot of you hitting the nail on the head. Depending on the area of the country the factors affecting pool probably change somewhat. Some areas have better economics, some have more casinos, some have more pool rooms vs bars. Lots of factors affect the economics of gambling/hustling/pool. The economy in general doesnt leave the discretionary income it once did. Besides, most people expect more for themselves. They live in bigger, more expensive homes with bigger bills. The middle class helped finance pools glory days with gambling. The so-called "suckers". Now that the middle class is shrinking, casino gambling is readily available, and discretionary income is limited; the idea of going back to the glory days is pure fantasy. Those days have most likely come and gone. Lets get used to it and go on. Billiard parlor owners, tournament directors, sponsors and pro players all want to make money. They dont like breaking even after an event or dealing with pool player drama or legal issues that may crop up during day to day operations. Gambling does have both positive and negative effects on the players AND the establishments they like to visit. Maybe its time to make pool more business oriented and treat it like a pro sport/ business etc. Whether or not the IPT does this with their attempts remains to be seen. At least they are giving it a try. The world is changing, the people in this industry need to change with it. Maybe I wandered too far off the subject. Just my $.02.
 
In my limited pool experience a room needs a stakehorse. The stakehorse seems to bring in action and that creates a gambling atmosphere. When there is no stakehorse the $500-10,000 matchups disappear. What is left are the locals who have matched up so many times that "making" a game takes 3 times longer than playing a match. These guys are then relegated to playing up and coming players and having to give up heavy weight. It might be cyclical but all of the other answers given are definitely contributing factors. All I know for sure is that the action at Hard Times in Bellflower, Ca is 180 degrees from what it was 10 yrs ago. It's still a great room but lacking the continous excitement of yrs ago.
 
Action Alive and WELL

I live in the small town of Abilene Texas, theres not a whole lot of stuff to do around here and only two Pool Halls in town, however, theres is ALWAYS action in both of them and the surrounding cities as well. (i.e odessa, dallas etc.) We still have road players come through every once in awhile. The last one was from the Witchita Kansas area. He cleaned up pretty goog from what I had heard.(a few thousand) As far as big money games (100 dollar 9 ball or better) only seems to take place when a road player comes to town. Other than that, almost anyone can find 1-20 9 ball action and 50-100 one pocket every nite. I have been told this is nothing comapred to what it used to be though. Ive also heard that the money is where the champs live.
 
cards

there are two pool halls that i go to that no doubt about it used to have quite a bit of small time action. then, these guys started playing cards.... no more pool action after that.

imo, gambling is almost 100% about peoples egos. it is so easy to lose money in a card game and tell everyone "i didn't get the cards." but to get in the pit playing pool and take giant craps all over yourself, there is just no getting out of that one. people just can't live with that, they would rather lose 1000 to a casino or in a card game than lose 50 playing another player, i swear. i hate it, really can't stand it.
 
good action....

Man, i understand what everyone is saying about not being able to find action, but if your ever in NC, head down to jacksonville NC....ask for a guy named larry.....i see him playing 1 pocket at 100 bucks a rack and 9-ball bets get even higher.....but be forwarned..he is a very strong A player, that will try to act like he sux just to get a spot....(which i think is lame)....i watched him loose action to a guy who was no where near as good as him, who wanted to play for 150 a rack, and he wanted they guy to play him 8-6. (1 pocket) i was like???? dude, wtf? u just lost so much money....b/c he would have killed this guy...anyways, if u ever want to play for alil more than 20-50 bucks a rack, look up Rack M's in jacksonville NC....good luck all
 
The Buddy hall book is rare enough to go for 150-300 bucks on Ebay so you're going to have to pay a lot of cash to read Buddys' bio.

I think it was John Daly, not Mickelson, who owed money to casinos. Mickelson, in addition to being a great golfer, has made some great bets on sports and made a good bit of $$ doing it. He stopped sports betting once he started his family. He got in early with a major stock, something like Ebay or Yahoo, and has made a killing on it. There's no chance he owes anyone a dime at this point.
 
I know for a fact that The Mick had...........

bud green said:
The Buddy hall book is rare enough to go for 150-300 bucks on Ebay so you're going to have to pay a lot of cash to read Buddys' bio.

I think it was John Daly, not Mickelson, who owed money to casinos. Mickelson, in addition to being a great golfer, has made some great bets on sports and made a good bit of $$ doing it. He stopped sports betting once he started his family. He got in early with a major stock, something like Ebay or Yahoo, and has made a killing on it. There's no chance he owes anyone a dime at this point.

I know for a fact that "The Mick" had an early $20K wager on the Rams to win it all in '99 That was a $1,980,000 Cash Out.

TY & GL, OHB
 
Gerald said:
In my limited pool experience a room needs a stakehorse. The stakehorse seems to bring in action and that creates a gambling atmosphere. When there is no stakehorse the $500-10,000 matchups disappear. What is left are the locals who have matched up so many times that "making" a game takes 3 times longer than playing a match. These guys are then relegated to playing up and coming players and having to give up heavy weight. It might be cyclical but all of the other answers given are definitely contributing factors. All I know for sure is that the action at Hard Times in Bellflower, Ca is 180 degrees from what it was 10 yrs ago. It's still a great room but lacking the continous excitement of yrs ago.

Yea, The "rainmaker" theory. I just read about Johnson City in a book and how the big money guys like Hubert Cokes fuel the fire by losing big sums, then it rains down thru the ranks to feed the gambling frenzy....

Gerry
 
jnav447 said:
IMO,the epitome of the action player is Richie Richeson. In case Richie Rich ain't in action, it's cuz he took a wrong turn into a church.

Richie was one of the best Money Players I ever had the grace to watch when he used to live here in Flint.

The only one around here that could give Richey any action was "Poochie", God rest his sole....

Richey is missed bady round here...
 
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