Where to get Mach3 help for saw machine?

JC

JC

Coos Cues
I have a CNC saw machine I bought from Leonard Bludworth and was working ok until I smoked the controller. So I replaced the xylotex controller and motors with a gecko 540. I had a relay installed so that I could turn my table saw off and on with the computer mostly so I have an audible cue that the cycle is over when the saw shuts off.

So I decided that as long as I was upgrading the controller and motors I might as well upgrade to mach3 as Leonard gave me a dilapidated laptop with the machine that looks to have one foot in the grave and was running mach2 and windows 2k. So I got a compact desktop with fresh xp on it.

I need to find someone who can help me set up Mach3 to control this machine as it was controlled before by Mach2 in what I am learning is a little unconventional manner. I told the controller builder that the spindle was run by a stepper motor rather than a simple relay so the speed can be controlled and that was the end of any possible support from him.

The old setup is that the Y axis is the lead screw. X is the raising and lowering of the spindle onto the saw blade and the spindle was controlled by the A axis and the Z was not used. All the G code files are written this way with the spindle motor on the A axis controlled with basic M commands m3, 4 and 5 and an S command for speed. I would like to set up Mach3 in order to run the same way and just add an appropriate line of code to start and stop the saw relay and not have to rewrite them all as they worked pretty well before. The X and the Y are very straight forward but I need help with the spindle motor and relay control. I think m8 and m9 can be used to toggle the relay once mach is configured properly so m3,4,and 5 still control the spindle but I need help configuring it to work.

Who may I contact that can help me with this that is familiar with what I am doing with this machine? I know in the big scheme of CNC this is pretty simple and I could probably research and solve all this myself eventually but I would rather spend my time shaving wood.

Thanks,

JC
 
JC said:
I have a CNC saw machine I bought from Leonard Bludworth and was working ok until I smoked the controller. So I replaced the xylotex controller and motors with a gecko 540. I had a relay installed so that I could turn my table saw off and on with the computer mostly so I have an audible cue that the cycle is over when the saw shuts off.

So I decided that as long as I was upgrading the controller and motors I might as well upgrade to mach3 as Leonard gave me a dilapidated laptop with the machine that looks to have one foot in the grave and was running mach2 and windows 2k. So I got a compact desktop with fresh xp on it.

I need to find someone who can help me set up Mach3 to control this machine as it was controlled before by Mach2 in what I am learning is a little unconventional manner. I told the controller builder that the spindle was run by a stepper motor rather than a simple relay so the speed can be controlled and that was the end of any possible support from him.

The old setup is that the Y axis is the lead screw. X is the raising and lowering of the spindle onto the saw blade and the spindle was controlled by the A axis and the Z was not used. All the G code files are written this way with the spindle motor on the A axis controlled with basic M commands m3, 4 and 5 and an S command for speed. I would like to set up Mach3 in order to run the same way and just add an appropriate line of code to start and stop the saw relay and not have to rewrite them all as they worked pretty well before. The X and the Y are very straight forward but I need help with the spindle motor and relay control. I think m8 and m9 can be used to toggle the relay once mach is configured properly so m3,4,and 5 still control the spindle but I need help configuring it to work.

Who may I contact that can help me with this that is familiar with what I am doing with this machine? I know in the big scheme of CNC this is pretty simple and I could probably research and solve all this myself eventually but I would rather spend my time shaving wood.

Thanks,

JC
Click to expand...

JC

I think I can point you in the right direction. First, here's some literature you'll need. You should keep these things for reference even after you're setup and running.

Mach3 manuals downloads page.
http://www.machsupport.com/help-learning/product-manuals/
You'll need the install and the user's guide for sure. Read them more than once!

Gecko G540 manuals download
http://www.geckodrive.com/app-notes.html
You'll need this for how to wire your motors and pinout information.

Now, in Mach3, you'll need to set the motor outputs (config, ports and pins, motor outputs) as follows:
Step and Direction pins
X 2,3
Y 4,5
Spindle 8,9
Make sure you use Spindle and not A axis in Mach. At the G540, you'll use the axis marked as A, but Mach3 controls the spindle differently than the A axis so you just use the pinouts to point it to the right place on the G540.

In the same location as the motor outputs, open the Spindle Setup tab and under Motor Control check the boxes for "Use spindle motor output", and "Step/Dir motor".
Under Flood Mist Control you'll need to un-check the disable box and set the pins in either the M7 or M8 box. The person you bought the Gecko box can tell you what pins he's wired the relay to. Either the M7 or the M8 will turn on the relay (your saw), and M9 will turn it off. You might want to make sure of the current rating of the relay and compare it to how much current your saw will use. Otherwise the relay won't last very long.

In Motor Tuning, you'll need to set the proper steps per unit for your X and Y lead screws. The G540 uses 10x microstepping, and the motors should be 200 step motors. So, 10x200 equals 2000 steps per motor revolution. If you have a 10 TPI lead screw, then you'll have 10 turns of the motor per inch, or 20,000 steps per inch. I would recommend setting the velocity to around 75 IPM to start, and the Accel pretty low as well, say .05. For the spindle, you'll need to set the steps per unit for 1 revolution. If it's direct drive, then it should be 2000. This part is important! Set the velocity for the spindle 750. You'll also need to set your pulley speeds to a 1 to 1 ratio and the same speed as in motor tuning, 750. It's critical that these two speeds match. When in Motor Tuning, always click on the Axis you want to change, and always click on the save button when you're done with each axis. It won't save otherwise. Always restart Mach3 when you've changed anything related to spindle speed. You'll chase your tail if you don't!

I think that's most of it. I don't mind lending a helping hand when I have the time, but I won't put too much effort into helping someone who won't help themselves. So read those manuals. Print them out, and keep them close by. You will run into trouble, and you will need to go back to those books. If you haven't read them, front to back more than once, you won't have any idea of where in them to look. Read them! If you do so, you'll really learn how this stuff works which is the real secret to all this anyway.


Good Luck!

Royce
 
JC said:
Thank you guys. These resources should get me over the hump.

JC
Click to expand...

Well this turns out to be false. I cannot get my spindle to turn for the life of me and am about ready to punch my own teeth out. I configured it as Royce directed me, read the manual over and over again (that section is only a couple paragraphs long and not complicated) and just can't get the A axis to turn the spindle. It toggles on and off in mach at the appropriate times but the RPM shows zero and it is silent. I know the motor and pins are right because when I assign them back to the A axis I can and run the motor fine from the motor tuning page. M3 toggles it on and M5 off but the motor just doesn't run.

Is there supposed to be another relay or something installed in the controller to enable this or is it all software? I spoke to the guy who I bought the box from yesterday and he seemed surprised that I was using a stepper motor directly to run the spindle and offered that he knows Jack about setting up that. (he was recommended to me by a member here in my previous thread about smoking my controller but turned out to be a little flakey in several ways). I moved the power relay output pin for my saw to output 2 and it works fine with m8 and m9 commands for coolant but I feel like I'm missing something simple and don't know what it could be.

I do need to check the relay as Royce said because after speaking to this guy on the phone it sounded like he thought I was going to run my spindle with it, even though I told him more than once when ordering the thing I was planning to run a table saw. So it won't surprise me if the relay isn't up to the job too.

I am learning a lot about all of this that will no doubt help me in the long run but right now I want to shoot this thing.

If anyone has any ideas I would be grateful.

Thanks,

JC
 
JC said:
Well this turns out to be false. I cannot get my spindle to turn for the life of me and am about ready to punch my own teeth out. I configured it as Royce directed me, read the manual over and over again (that section is only a couple paragraphs long and not complicated) and just can't get the A axis to turn the spindle. It toggles on and off in mach at the appropriate times but the RPM shows zero and it is silent. I know the motor and pins are right because when I assign them back to the A axis I can and run the motor fine from the motor tuning page. M3 toggles it on and M5 off but the motor just doesn't run.

Is there supposed to be another relay or something installed in the controller to enable this or is it all software? I spoke to the guy who I bought the box from yesterday and he seemed surprised that I was using a stepper motor directly to run the spindle and offered that he knows Jack about setting up that. (he was recommended to me by a member here in my previous thread about smoking my controller but turned out to be a little flakey in several ways). I moved the power relay output pin for my saw to output 2 and it works fine with m8 and m9 commands for coolant but I feel like I'm missing something simple and don't know what it could be.

I do need to check the relay as Royce said because after speaking to this guy on the phone it sounded like he thought I was going to run my spindle with it, even though I told him more than once when ordering the thing I was planning to run a table saw. So it won't surprise me if the relay isn't up to the job too.

I am learning a lot about all of this that will no doubt help me in the long run but right now I want to shoot this thing.

If anyone has any ideas I would be grateful.

Thanks,

JC
Click to expand...



JC

We need to back up a bit.

As I understood it, you want to use a stepper to spin your stock for cutting on the saw. And, you wanted to use the control to use a relay to turn your saw on and off. The two are completely different things.

First, the stock spindle.
The stepper should be connected to the "A" axis connection on your G540.
The Motor Outputs for the "Spindle" (not the A) should be set to step 8 and dir 9. You also have to check the "enable" box, and you need to set the step port and dir ports to match your parallel port settings. (this is the reading part I was talking about). In motor tuning, you need to set the steps per unit and the max velocity properly!
If all this is done, then there are a few questions.
Does the stepper motor lock up when the control is on and enabled?
Do you have a speed designated? (If you tell it to spin and it doesn't have a programmed speed it won't turn)
Does the Mach3 display show that it's turning?
What are your motor tuning settings?
What are your pulley settings?

Now, for the saw on and off
You'll need to know what pins the relay has been wired to. (the controller guy knows)
You will use either an M7 or M8 to turn the saw on, and an M9 to turn it off.
It's actually the flood or mist control setups that you're using. M7 is usually for flood and M8 is usually for mist. M3, M4, and M5 will be used for the stepper spindle, not the saw.
Is the relay setup to control a 110 plug on the back of the control box? It will have to be if you want it to turn your saw on and off.

Go back and check things. Look up the info on these topics in the Mach3 configuration guide. Look at motor outputs, motor tuning, and step and direction spindle setup.

If it still doesn't work, answer some of the questions above and I'll see if I can spot what the culprit is.


Royce
 
RBC said:
JC

If it still doesn't work, answer some of the questions above and I'll see if I can spot what the culprit is.


Royce
Click to expand...

Thanks Royce,

I have a much clearer understanding of how this all works due to your explanations and my looking at everything and understanding it all day. I now understand all the settings involved in the process.

And my problem is solved to boot, I have tried to put my teeth back in with CA after punching them out earlier today.

And when it's all said and done it was painfully simple.

I didn't turn on the port to port 1 in ports and pins for the spindle. Pretty hard to control a motor sending a signal to thin air eh? I feel stupid because for all the things I didn't know, this wasn't one of them. I just forgot to look over to the right. The second I saw it I immediately knew.

JC
 
JC said:
Thanks Royce,

I have a much clearer understanding of how this all works due to your explanations and my looking at everything and understanding it all day. I now understand all the settings involved in the process.

And my problem is solved to boot, I have tried to put my teeth back in with CA after punching them out earlier today.

And when it's all said and done it was painfully simple.

I didn't turn on the port to port 1 in ports and pins for the spindle. Pretty hard to control a motor sending a signal to thin air eh? I feel stupid because for all the things I didn't know, this wasn't one of them. I just forgot to look over to the right. The second I saw it I immediately knew.

JC
Click to expand...

Cool!

Don't worry about it. We've all had things like that happen.

I've forgotten to enable motors. I've even forgotten to plug them in!

It can be frustrating, but the solution is always to just slow down and re-check everything.


good luck!

Royce
 
RBC said:
Cool!

Don't worry about it. We've all had things like that happen.

I've forgotten to enable motors. I've even forgotten to plug them in!

It can be frustrating, but the solution is always to just slow down and re-check everything.


good luck!

Royce
Click to expand...

Well I went from not having a good direction to turning wood in one day thanks to your help. Just got stuck on that one little thing for half of it.

The rest is looking good.

Thanks again

JC
 
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